2020 Patriots News

[Yankee Traveler]

I think you are forgetting he replaced Revis for a year. If Butler was a flash, damn what a flash. What would any team trade for that 1 play at that 1 time? Then add in his 2015 season. Butler's issue was he didn't understand the team he was playing for and felt disrespected by not getting an early pay day. That feeling of disrespect got into his head and he came apart at his seems. Had he understood his pay day would only come through free agency (like everybody else), things may have ended differently.

He had 3 plays almost back to back.
1, The pass breakup over Kearse. He absolutely gave it everything he had to prevent the catch. It just landed on Kearse by pure luck.
2, Having the presence of mind to still be in the game and push Kearse out of bounds.
3, The INT.

His career has gone downhill since.

 

[BigKen]

Isn't Butler 2017 Patriots news??

 

[cheerupcharlie]

And Brady is 2019. But I’m willing to bet there’s gonna be some talk about him.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Speaking of Brady...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nf...m=false&p.tcm=%23000&p.bgc1m=%23EAEAEA&sr=amp

Others with Pats ties on the team Gronk, Gost, Mankins, C. Jones, Revis, Patterson. And one game of AB lol.

 

[BigKen]

Anyone in here want to participate in Nosferatu's 7th Annual Draft? The person who took the Chargers hasn't been seen since March 13 and his cell number is now defunct.

Come to the thread and check in if you want to take the team. It's the same as the team's drafting this year.

I have the patriots, like the past two. You can win 70,000 SportsHoopla Bookie Dollars

 

[nefansince75]

2015 NE ranked 9th in total D
2016 they were 1st
2017 they were 29th

He was a product of a good defense. He was exposed when he didn't have that D to save him. Not to mention a top 4 and a top 6 total offense to bail him out.

The dude went undrafted for a reason. He was a fraud and continues to get abused. Forget stats use the eye test. Go back and watch the game films.

But he wasn't fraudulent in 2015 and 2016. Heck this site 2014 NFL Draft Redo has him a first round pick in the 14 re-draft. You are weighting 2017 way too much. He sucked in 2017 and I don't put much credibility in the theory that the Pats win the SB against Philly if he had played. But he made the 2015 Pro bowl for a reason.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

But he wasn't fraudulent in 2015 and 2016. Heck this site 2014 NFL Draft Redo has him a first round pick in the 14 re-draft. You are weighting 2017 way too much. He sucked in 2017 and I don't put much credibility in the theory that the Pats win the SB against Philly if he had played. But he made the 2015 Pro bowl for a reason.

We can go back and forth on this if you want? You continue to go back to the two decent years he had to start his career. Those two seasons were on very good defensive teams. Fast forward to 2017-2019 and the guy has been exposed. Teams have learned he can't stay with any quick receivers. He's constantly getting burned.

Your comparisons are like saying if I went to the track in 2015, won a couple thousand dollars but since than every time I've gone I lose multiple thousands. I'm still a winner? You are weighing too much on those first two years. You need to look at the entire body of work.

Again the way he had been getting burned I don't think he makes a difference in the SB. Especially if the rumors about him staggering in early in the morning are true. IMHO BB outsmarted himself in that SB that is why NE lost, not because Butler didn't play.

 

[nefansince75]

We can go back and forth on this if you want? You continue to go back to the two decent years he had to start his career. Those two seasons were on very good defensive teams. Fast forward to 2017-2019 and the guy has been exposed. Teams have learned he can't stay with any quick receivers. He's constantly getting burned.

Your comparisons are like saying if I went to the track in 2015, won a couple thousand dollars but since than every time I've gone I lose multiple thousands. I'm still a winner? You are weighing too much on those first two years. You need to look at the entire body of work.

Again the way he had been getting burned I don't think he makes a difference in the SB. Especially if the rumors about him staggering in early in the morning are true. IMHO BB outsmarted himself in that SB that is why NE lost, not because Butler didn't play.

I don't recall mentioning anything other than his bonus play in 2014 and his 2015 and 2016 seasons. Look through the several 2014 re-drafts and you'll see he's well represented as a first round replacement. I disagree with your characterization of him as a product of the system for those years since systems are usually built around the strengths of the available resources. I agree that maybe his strengths only work in the correct system, but that doesn't lessen what he brought those two seasons. Just go back to SB49 and you'll see one guy getting torched, then the replacement actually changing the game.

 

[BigKen]

Tom Brady has agreed to sign with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for 2 years and $50M guaranteed.

It was reported by Tom Curran on Early Edition last night that Brady says that he hasn't felt this good in years and feels that he could play another five years.........yep, five years.

Just thought I'd report some 2020 news......Okay?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Again the way he had been getting burned I don't think he makes a difference in the SB. Especially if the rumors about him staggering in early in the morning are true. IMHO BB outsmarted himself in that SB that is why NE lost, not because Butler didn't play.

This.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I don't recall mentioning anything other than his bonus play in 2014 and his 2015 and 2016 seasons. Look through the several 2014 re-drafts and you'll see he's well represented as a first round replacement. I disagree with your characterization of him as a product of the system for those years since systems are usually built around the strengths of the available resources. I agree that maybe his strengths only work in the correct system, but that doesn't lessen what he brought those two seasons. Just go back to SB49 and you'll see one guy getting torched, then the replacement actually changing the game.

If he had been drafted in the 1st round he;
A) wouldn't have played with such hunger to start his career.
or
B) would be considered a bust.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Tom Brady has agreed to sign with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for 2 years and $50M guaranteed.

It was reported by Tom Curran on Early Edition last night that Brady says that he hasn't felt this good in years and feels that he could play another five years.........yep, five years.

Just thought I'd report some 2020 news......Okay?

Sure. Thanks.





Now...back to Malcolm Butlers bust status...

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I don't recall mentioning anything other than his bonus play in 2014 and his 2015 and 2016 seasons. Look through the several 2014 re-drafts and you'll see he's well represented as a first round replacement. I disagree with your characterization of him as a product of the system for those years since systems are usually built around the strengths of the available resources. I agree that maybe his strengths only work in the correct system, but that doesn't lessen what he brought those two seasons. Just go back to SB49 and you'll see one guy getting torched, then the replacement actually changing the game.

Well I'd have to pull up some recent redrafts. I'm thinking if they did one today he'd be lucky to get a 5th round grade.
Just FYI if you haven't noticed I'm not alone in my assessment of him. Plenty of other threads were this has been discussed.

I'll give you as an undrafted player he did well. But he has been exposed. Glad NE didn't pay him.

@BK for what it's worth I hope NE uses a mid to late pick on a DB in the upcoming draft.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Just to throw a different wrinkle into the discussion, pro football reference's Appximate Value stat has Butler tied for the 26th-most valuable player from the 2014 class. Now it's not a perfect stat by any means, but I do think it's instructive when comparing groups of players over a number of years. For example the same evaluation yields Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, and Zack Martin as the three most valuable players in that class, I doubt anyone would dispute that.

So based on that stat (and this aligns with something I've been saying for years about people overrating the value of draft picks), Butler should be firmly in the conversation as a late 1st round pick in a re-draft of the 2014 class based on what they've actually accomplished on the field in the last 6 years.

Regardless of whether or not he hasn't been as good the last few years or wasn't deserving of his second contract, he's been fairly objectively better than most of the players that were drafted that year.

 

[BigKen]

When the Mocks and others start to fall over themselves about any player, one player comes to mind and it puts things in perspective...........................Ryan Leaf.

 

[nefansince75]

Well I'd have to pull up some recent redrafts. I'm thinking if they did one today he'd be lucky to get a 5th round grade.
Just FYI if you haven't noticed I'm not alone in my assessment of him. Plenty of other threads were this has been discussed.

I'll give you as an undrafted player he did well. But he has been exposed. Glad NE didn't pay him.

@BK for what it's worth I hope NE uses a mid to late pick on a DB in the upcoming draft.

See - we completely agree. I'm not saying he was worth what Tenn paid or that I wish he were back. I'm just saying the UFA move redeemed previous misses. Especially since the UFA theme for this team is consistently find guys that contribute.

The redrafts have been as late as 2019, but redrafts pop up around draft time so we may see new ones or 2014 may now be too far back for the re-drafters to care. But just because somebody see he's worthy of being re-drafted doesn't meant they are right, or I'm right. Others agreeing with you doesn't make you or them right. I just suspect we have different perceptions and are each right-ish.

 

[Southieinnc]

I would say if a guy nicknamed "scrap" stops playing scrappy you might get those results. Let's not re-write his tenure, after all he did make the pro bowl following the 2015 season. He wasn't quite up to the level in 2016, but the player you describe didn't show up until 2017.

Dead on, in my opinion. His drive was what took him to the top. Once he "arrived" He lost his drive.
It's hard to sing the blues when you are a millionaire.....

 

[Southieinnc]

Isn't Butler 2017 Patriots news??

That's just a rumor.....

 

[nefansince75]

That's just a rumor.....

Almost truly LOLed on that, but instead had one of those deep grins you can't wipe off your face.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

See - we completely agree. I'm not saying he was worth what Tenn paid or that I wish he were back. I'm just saying the UFA move redeemed previous misses. Especially since the UFA theme for this team is consistently find guys that contribute.

The redrafts have been as late as 2019, but redrafts pop up around draft time so we may see new ones or 2014 may now be too far back for the re-drafters to care. But just because somebody see he's worthy of being re-drafted doesn't meant they are right, or I'm right. Others agreeing with you doesn't make you or them right. I just suspect we have different perceptions and are each right-ish.

Blasphemy, of course I'm right! As well as anyone who agrees with me

As for hitting and missing on UDFAs or even high drafted players. If you throw enough balls in the air eventually you'll catch one. But no doubt BB and co. have been able to find their fair share of players that were looked over. To include aging vets.

You hit the nail on the head WRT grading players. It's all subjective. To include the Approximate Value which has a bunch of so called experts who use their personal scale to grade someone, then pass it onto a bunch of other retired coaches or whomever who subjectively offer their perspective to grade the value a players worth.

I am an eye test person first. I just got tired of watching Butler get burned. The number of TDs he gave up and him constantly chasing a WR is what my eyes saw.

After the eye test I like the old ask 10 guys in a bar what they saw. This is more used in the argument of was it a catch or wasn't it? Or was it a penalty or not?