2020 Hawks Offseason Thread:

[JMR]

But do you honestly think this team is a Super Bowl contender right now? Is it one if we bring in Griffen or Golden? A healthy Clowney might be the best shot we have but even then this defense isn't likely to be dominant

I don't think you need a dominant defense to be a SB contender anymore, especially not when you have 1 of the 3 best QBs on the planet. We were maybe a Malik Turner drop away from the NFCC last year with the poor D/DL that we had, plus virtually every RB and every TE injured for the playoffs. The D needs to improve, but it doesn't need to be top 10 in my opinion.

 

[Anointed One]

I don't think you need a dominant defense to be a SB contender anymore, especially not when you have 1 of the 3 best QBs on the planet. We were maybe a Malik Turner drop away from the NFCC last year with the poor D/DL that we had, plus virtually every RB and every TE injured for the playoffs. The D needs to improve, but it doesn't need to be top 10 in my opinion.

I feel like we're already a better defense than last year, even without Clowney... Obviously he makes us better but I'm optimistic about the season with the additions in the secondary, DL, Reed for a full season, Collins and Green with some NFL experience... Those 3 should see an improvement this year in itself...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I don't care if we had Vince Lombardi as our defensive coordinator, this defense is never going to be good with the current DL or the one we had last year.

Disagree, strongly.... We were way too predictable, We need to stop making excuses for bad coordinators, he's sucked every year he's been on the job and that includes the Raiders ...

 

[JMR]

I feel like we're already a better defense than last year, even without Clowney... Obviously he makes us better but I'm optimistic about the season with the additions in the secondary, DL, Reed for a full season, Collins and Green with some NFL experience... Those 3 should see an improvement this year in itself...

I'm the most confident that the combo of Bruce Irvin & Benson Mayowa will give us a lot more than what we got from Ansah last year. That's probably still my belief even if one of them gets hit by a bus before Sep.

After that, I think it's more likely than not that Jarran Reed is better in 2020 than he was in 2019. Not having a 6 game suspension derail your season may help with that.

I'm also not ready to just write off Collier after a dud of a rookie year. He missed nearly all of camp with the ankle injury, and it just never really got going after that. I don't expect him to be Mean Joe Greene, but good organizations don't give up on players after 1 year.

Rasheem Green was 20 when we drafted him 2 years ago and made a decent jump last year as a role player. I don't see why he cannot continue to improve in year 3. He did lead the team in sacks which admittedly isn't saying a whole lot, but I probably wouldn't have picked him to finish better than 4th or 5th.

Do I think they all hit? No, probably not....even a 90% free throw shooter only has about a 65% chance to make 4 in a row. But I think it's equally unreasonable to just assume they'll all just give us exactly what we had last year or expect them not to be any better as a group. And then elsewhere on the D, you added Dubar in trade, will get a full year from Diggs, probably will use promising rookie Cody Barton more in his 2nd year, and drafted 3 explosive athletes that all may find ways to contribute right away. Lots of reasons to be optimistic about the chance to see decent improvement D. Add Clowney back to that, and it's looking even better for sure.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

When you have no pass rush you are susceptible to big pass plays. Too many times a QB would have 4 or even 5 seconds to throw the ball which is just too long in the NFL.

Or when you stick to a 3 linebacker set on a 3rd and 15 because you're too dam stubborn to actually adjust...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I'm the most confident that the combo of Bruce Irvin & Benson Mayowa will give us a lot more than what we got from Ansah last year. That's probably still my belief even if one of them gets hit by a bus before Sep.

After that, I think it's more likely than not that Jarran Reed is better in 2020 than he was in 2019. Not having a 6 game suspension derail your season may help with that.

I'm also not ready to just write off Collier after a dud of a rookie year. He missed nearly all of camp with the ankle injury, and it just never really got going after that. I don't expect him to be Mean Joe Greene, but good organizations don't give up on players after 1 year.

Rasheem Green was 20 when we drafted him 2 years ago and made a decent jump last year as a role player. I don't see why he cannot continue to improve in year 3. He did lead the team in sacks which admittedly isn't saying a whole lot, but I probably wouldn't have picked him to finish better than 4th or 5th.

Do I think they all hit? No, probably not....even a 90% free throw shooter only has about a 65% chance to make 4 in a row. But I think it's equally unreasonable to just assume they'll all just give us exactly what we had last year or expect them not to be any better as a group. And then elsewhere on the D, you added Dubar in trade, will get a full year from Diggs, probably will use promising rookie Cody Barton more in his 2nd year, and drafted 3 explosive athletes that all may find ways to contribute right away. Lots of reasons to be optimistic about the chance to see decent improvement D. Add Clowney back to that, and it's looking even better for sure.

Ansah was a HUGE disappointment for sure... I hope somehow we sign Clowney but it's not looking good....

 

[Anointed One]

Ansah was a HUGE disappointment for sure... I hope somehow we sign Clowney but it's not looking good....

It's not looking good for Clowney either... More than likely teams salary caps won't have 15+ million to sign a DL... The longer he waits, the worst it gets for him... Teams are moving on with plan B's since he's not committing... Rumors are that he may sit out till a DE gets injured... Even if he chooses that route, will a team be able to pay him what he wants? Doubt it... He's better off signing with the Hawks... He knows the system... Play out a 1 year contract and earn your 20 million going into next season... He's only hurting himself at this point...

 

[Anointed One]

I'm the most confident that the combo of Bruce Irvin & Benson Mayowa will give us a lot more than what we got from Ansah last year. That's probably still my belief even if one of them gets hit by a bus before Sep.

After that, I think it's more likely than not that Jarran Reed is better in 2020 than he was in 2019. Not having a 6 game suspension derail your season may help with that.

I'm also not ready to just write off Collier after a dud of a rookie year. He missed nearly all of camp with the ankle injury, and it just never really got going after that. I don't expect him to be Mean Joe Greene, but good organizations don't give up on players after 1 year.

Rasheem Green was 20 when we drafted him 2 years ago and made a decent jump last year as a role player. I don't see why he cannot continue to improve in year 3. He did lead the team in sacks which admittedly isn't saying a whole lot, but I probably wouldn't have picked him to finish better than 4th or 5th.

Do I think they all hit? No, probably not....even a 90% free throw shooter only has about a 65% chance to make 4 in a row. But I think it's equally unreasonable to just assume they'll all just give us exactly what we had last year or expect them not to be any better as a group. And then elsewhere on the D, you added Dubar in trade, will get a full year from Diggs, probably will use promising rookie Cody Barton more in his 2nd year, and drafted 3 explosive athletes that all may find ways to contribute right away. Lots of reasons to be optimistic about the chance to see decent improvement D. Add Clowney back to that, and it's looking even better for sure.

Agree... I still believe Green will improve... He wasn't only 20 years old but he was a mid 3rd round pick... Some believe he dropped further than he should've due to his age... He's still a quality player that will continue to improve...

Michael Bennett was drafted in the 6th round (He was also waived in his rookie year by the Seahawks and picked up by TB)
Cliff Avril was drafted in the late 3rd round

Who's to say, Green, Collins, Taylor, A. Robinson won't turn into a Bennett and/or Avril? Bennett/Avril fit in our system well... I'm optimistic that we'll have someone emerge from the 4 DE's I mentioned above...

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Same here.

I know I sound like a broken record Debbie Downer type about the DL. But honestly, I'm not being pessimistic. I'm not hand wring over our team.

I just see the trend line of our defense and I see little reason to think it will be any better this year. I generally liked our draft picks. I liked our Dunbar trade. While I'm probably a little higher on Flowers than most, there is no question that having another solid vet corner will improve the secondary. And I think that our safeties will improve as a group as well.

But our DL was abysmal last year. Collier was a non-factor, Green was ok at times and invisible at others, Reed was a pale shadow of his 2018 self, Ford was fine in his limited role, Ansah was horrible and Clowney ranged from absolutely dominant to irrelevant.

Unless Collier makes a huge step up or Taylor is a monster rookie, there is just not much reason to think it will be any better this year.

@JMR is confident that we will do something that will do something to address. I'm about 50/50 on it.

I do agree we've upgraded most of our D but you're right about the D-line. The upgrades mean nothing if our D-line can't step up and produce.

 

[JMR]

Ansah was a HUGE disappointment for sure... I hope somehow we sign Clowney but it's not looking good....

I just don't think things have changed much either way with Clowney in several weeks or even a few months. Is he any closer to signing with someone else than he is with Seattle? I don't see any proof or evidence of that. Anything up to this point is still just speculation. Nothing has really changed with this since free agency began, and at that time I think we were mostly confident we would bring him back. What is different now? I don't think signing Bruce Irvin or drafting Darrell Taylor means we are moving on from Clowney, and the cap space can be created with the waive of a pen. I personally don't see Clowney going anywhere until teams can give him a physical with their own medical staff, which would set the stage pretty much just as it was when free agency started.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

It's not looking good for Clowney either... More than likely teams salary caps won't have 15+ million to sign a DL... The longer he waits, the worst it gets for him... Teams are moving on with plan B's since he's not committing... Rumors are that he may sit out till a DE gets injured... Even if he chooses that route, will a team be able to pay him what he wants? Doubt it... He's better off signing with the Hawks... He knows the system... Play out a 1 year contract and earn your 20 million going into next season... He's only hurting himself at this point...

He may not get that 20mil next season if the rumor of the cap going down next season.

 

[Anointed One]

He may not get that 20mil next season if the rumor of the cap going down next season.

Good point, which is why it's more important that he gets a deal done this year...

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Good point, which is why it's more important that he gets a deal done this year...

Very true. He'd be smart in taking a 2yr deal and reload the following season when the cap goes back up.

 

[Screamin12th]

I wouldn't say the defense was predictable but they were out manned last year when playing in their base 4-3 WAY WAY WAY to much. This team has always been a big nickel team on defense and they changed last season and it took speed off the field. Not to mention the tackling on defense was the worst i have ever seen by a PC coached team period. So they were slow, couldn't get pressure and couldn't tackle lol that spells doom.

We saw spurts of OUTSTANDING defensive play, now they just need to continue that play and also get back to the Nickel defense more often. Don't know why Pete changed up the defense so much in the formations they ran. It did not work Petey so lets go back to what did work ( maybe they didn't have the CB/S to do the big nickel )

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

It's not looking good for Clowney either... More than likely teams salary caps won't have 15+ million to sign a DL... The longer he waits, the worst it gets for him... Teams are moving on with plan B's since he's not committing... Rumors are that he may sit out till a DE gets injured... Even if he chooses that route, will a team be able to pay him what he wants? Doubt it... He's better off signing with the Hawks... He knows the system... Play out a 1 year contract and earn your 20 million going into next season... He's only hurting himself at this point...

Agreed, I"m really surprised he's not signing a 1 year deal, getting back at it and then hitting the market next season...

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Agreed, I"m really surprised he's not signing a 1 year deal, getting back at it and then hitting the market next season...

Probably waiting for team facilities to open so he can prove he's 100% healthy and restart his bidding at 20mil.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Probably waiting for team facilities to open so he can prove he's 100% healthy and restart his bidding at 20mil.

it's funny when you think about it though, If I gave you 15 million dollars, or 20 millions, WTF difference does it really make ? Either way your laughing your way to the bank, and then in a years time you're gonna get another 15-20 million... It's insanity when you think about it...

 

[JMR]

it's funny when you think about it though, If I gave you 15 million dollars, or 20 millions, WTF difference does it really make ? Either way your laughing your way to the bank, and then in a years time you're gonna get another 15-20 million... It's insanity when you think about it...

It's usually fairly easy to volunteer someone else to take a few less million, but it's no surprise to me that pretty much all players who have the opportunity behave more or less the same way when it comes to trying to make as much as they can while the window is open. And taxes + agent commission on $20M is over $8M, so it's not quite as much money as it looks like on paper. I bet you wouldn't sell your $400k house for $300k.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

It's usually fairly easy to volunteer someone else to take a few less million, but it's no surprise to me that pretty much all players who have the opportunity behave more or less the same way when it comes to trying to make as much as they can while the window is open. And taxes + agent commission on $20M is over $8M, so it's not quite as much money as it looks like on paper. I bet you wouldn't sell your $400k house for $300k.

Big difference though, I'm not asking him to volunteer, I'm just saying 15 million or 20 millions, really what is the difference in the big picture, if you have any common sense you won't spend that money in your lifetime, and it's not like it's gonna be his last payday, and he's ALREADY a millionaire !! He can sign a 1 year deal, hit the open market again next season, he wins no matter what, unless he has some catastrophic injury, which in that case he's still a millionaire anyway....

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yeah I think he would be a good addition, but don't expect it to happen. However I do think the Seahawks are going to make further additions. Most likely to the DL, but the OL could also use a boost so who knows?

Based on previous trends and how the roster looks right now, I think the Seahawks might be saving their cap space to add someone if the need arises. This COVID shit really impacts their ability to work out/evaluate the health of guys like Clowney and Griffen.