2020 Hawks Offseason Thread:

[flyerhawk]

Personally, the off-season has gone exactly how I expected it to go. The specific names may not have been in my mind, but the type of signings have been exactly what Seattle always does in free agency.

And we should expect a similar season next year. 10-11 wins. Playoff victory and then a gracious exit. It's pretty much what we do these days.

 

[JMR]

You keep arguing in the hypothetical, J. Yes, things can absolutely change dramatically. And if they do, my opinion of this offseason will change.

It's not like I'm calling for Schneider to be fired.

I'm arguing that it's too early to give the project a failing grade. You are also arguing the hypothetical -- that we won't look much different in 5 months than we do now. That's how you're talking about the off-season.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm arguing that it's too early to give the project a failing grade. You are also arguing the hypothetical -- that we won't look much different in 5 months than we do now. That's how you're talking about the off-season.

No. What I'm saying is that, at this moment, as the team is currently constructed, our DL is worse than it was last year and last year it was pretty terrible.

I suspect we will do other things to improve the DL. We'll see what those moves are. But if Clowney doesn't come back it is going to be difficult to achieve a net improvement on the DL from last year.

 

[JMR]

No. What I'm saying is that, at this moment, as the team is currently constructed, our DL is worse than it was last year and last year it was pretty terrible.

I suspect we will do other things to improve the DL. We'll see what those moves are. But if Clowney doesn't come back it is going to be difficult to achieve a net improvement on the DL from last year.

I also firmly believe we will do other things to improve the DL, which is why I think it is a pointless drill to huff and puff about what it looks like right now.

 

[flyerhawk]

I also firmly believe we will do other things to improve the DL, which is why I think it is a pointless drill to huff and puff about what it looks like right now.

What else would you like to talk about?

 

[JMR]

What else would you like to talk about?

Tell ya what, I'll just back out of this one and let you at it.

 

[blstoker]

Seahawks re-sign Neiko Thorpe

 

[Anointed One]

Seahawks re-sign Neiko Thorpe

Gotta keep the ST's unit solid...

 

[Anointed One]

Seahawks bringing back 2019 starting LG Mike Iupati... I like this move... Nice to see that we have 4 of our 5 starting OL on contracts heading into 2020... It will help with chemistry with the shortened off season... Shell will most likely we our starting RT...

LT: Brown
LG: Iupati
C: Britt (for now)
RG: Fluker
RT: Shell

 

[flyerhawk]

Seahawks bringing back 2019 starting LG Mike Iupati... I like this move... Nice to see that we have 4 of our 5 starting OL on contracts heading into 2020... It will help with chemistry with the shortened off season... Shell will most likely we our starting RT...

LT: Brown
LG: Iupati
C: Britt (for now)
RG: Fluker
RT: Shell

Yeah I'm glad Iupati is coming back. And we have more depth.

 

[Anointed One]

Yeah I'm glad Iupati is coming back. And we have more depth.

I think we have Simmons as well on the OL for depth... He played a few games in '18 and did pretty good before he got hurt...

 

[flyerhawk]

One thing I find to be really odd is that there are still 3 pretty good DL guys left in FA. Clowney, Griffen and Golden.

I'm wondering if all 3 of them think that they will get better deals after the draft when teams don't get the players they want? I just don't get that reasoning.

 

[seahawksfan234]

If the Seahawks have accepted that their DL is more or less as is, then let's hope that the season doesn't happen because we have no chance at a Super Bowl. The only possible thing that might happen is Russ gets a serious injury.

If I had to speculate regarding the thinking of the front office it's something like this: Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa combined for 15.5 sacks in 2019. Quinton Jefferson and Jadeveon Clowney combined for 6.5. It's an oversimplified way of looking at it, but they could believe the defense will be overall better with the addition of Dunbar and a full season of McDougald and Diggs playing together. The thought could be that the improvements to the secondary could trickle over and lead to more coverage sacks.

 

[flyerhawk]

If I had to speculate regarding the thinking of the front office it's something like this: Bruce Irvin and Benson Mayowa combined for 15.5 sacks in 2019. Quinton Jefferson and Jadeveon Clowney combined for 6.5. It's an oversimplified way of looking at it, but they could believe the defense will be overall better with the addition of Dunbar and a full season of McDougald and Diggs playing together. The thought could be that the improvements to the secondary could trickle over and lead to more coverage sacks.

Except sacks are a really bad stat on their own. First off they ignore run defense ability, which neither Irvin or Mayowa have. Secondly they give single role players like Irvin and Mayowa outsized influence. Both of those players are guys who get sacks on long yardage downs against single blockers. While all sacks are good sacks there is a huge difference between a sack on 2nd and 9 and 3rd and 15 as far as overall value. Without looking at their game play, I bet nearly all of their sacks were in low leverage situations.

I was listening to Brock and Salk's pod today and Brock is pretty much exactly where I am on this. He believes that Clowney was priority #1 and if we aren't bringing him back then he needs to be replaced with someone of similar caliber.

The problem, as I see it, is that by bringing in Irvin and Mayowa we've kinda limited our options as far as what other DL players would be a good fit. We really need an effective point of attack end who can pressure the QB and stop the run if we are going to have guys like Irvin or Mayowa on the other side.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Except sacks are a really bad stat on their own. First off they ignore run defense ability, which neither Irvin or Mayowa have. Secondly they give single role players like Irvin and Mayowa outsized influence. Both of those players are guys who get sacks on long yardage downs against single blockers. While all sacks are good sacks there is a huge difference between a sack on 2nd and 9 and 3rd and 15 as far as overall value. Without looking at their game play, I bet nearly all of their sacks were in low leverage situations.

I was listening to Brock and Salk's pod today and Brock is pretty much exactly where I am on this. He believes that Clowney was priority #1 and if we aren't bringing him back then he needs to be replaced with someone of similar caliber.

The problem, as I see it, is that by bringing in Irvin and Mayowa we've kinda limited our options as far as what other DL players would be a good fit. We really need an effective point of attack end who can pressure the QB and stop the run if we are going to have guys like Irvin or Mayowa on the other side.

Everything you said is completely right and I can't agree more. I was attempting to look at it from the perspective of the front office to justify why they're going into a draft that is weak on pass rushers, not enough cap space to bring back Clowney or sign Griffen and with Mayowa and Irvin as their biggest pass rush threats. I don't approve of the way the Seahawks have approached free agency (aside from the Dunbar trade), but this was my attempt to understand their thinking.

The optimist in me likes the improvements made to the secondary a lot, but the pessimist in me believes that the pass rush will be what it was last year or worse. Even if the first pick they use is on a pass rusher, the only day-1 impact player at that position is Chase Young and we're in no position to land him.

I also personally believe the Seahawks wasted a lot of cap space signing a bunch of low-tier offensive linemen. B.J. Finney, Brandon Shell, Chance Warmack and Mike Iupati have a combined cap hit of around $9m. I feel like the money could've been better spent elsewhere.

 

[seahawksfan234]

One thing I find to be really odd is that there are still 3 pretty good DL guys left in FA. Clowney, Griffen and Golden.

I'm wondering if all 3 of them think that they will get better deals after the draft when teams don't get the players they want? I just don't get that reasoning.

I think part of the reason Clowney hasn't signed yet is a combination of the fact that he hasn't received an offer he wants and the fact that he can't fly in for a physical. Griffen is probably waiting until Clowney signs and given Griffen's age, the inability to take a physical could also be an issue.

The second part of your post could play into it. Given how close we are to the draft, teams could be looking at the players still on the market as Plan B.

 

[flyerhawk]

Everything you said is completely right and I can't agree more. I was attempting to look at it from the perspective of the front office to justify why they're going into a draft that is weak on pass rushers, not enough cap space to bring back Clowney or sign Griffen and with Mayowa and Irvin as their biggest pass rush threats. I don't approve of the way the Seahawks have approached free agency (aside from the Dunbar trade), but this was my attempt to understand their thinking.

FTR, they have the cap space to bring back Clowney or sign Griffen. The cap is fungible and teams almost never get into cap hell these days unless something really shocking happens.

The optimist in me likes the improvements made to the secondary a lot, but the pessimist in me believes that the pass rush will be what it was last year or worse. Even if the first pick they use is on a pass rusher, the only day-1 impact player at that position is Chase Young and we're in no position to land him.

I like having Dunbar, Griffin, Amadi and Flowers as corners. I could see Blair take a step up next season. He showed promise along with inexperience last year.

I also personally believe the Seahawks wasted a lot of cap space signing a bunch of low-tier offensive linemen. B.J. Finney, Brandon Shell, Chance Warmack and Mike Iupati have a combined cap hit of around $9m. I feel like the money could've been better spent elsewhere.

Perhaps. But I really don't think the team is that cap constrained right now.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Heaps: Seahawks are unlikely to trade out of 1st round for 2 reasons


Seahawks are unlikely to trade out of 1st round for 2 reasons


This is one of those I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Anointed One]

Heaps: Seahawks are unlikely to trade out of 1st round for 2 reasons


Seahawks are unlikely to trade out of 1st round for 2 reasons


This is one of those I'll believe it when I see it.

Exactly... They only have 7 picks so I find it hard to believe they won't trade down... Even if it is a lower 2nd rounder... If so, they could get a 3rd and 5th/6th out of it, too...

 

[MrS]

Didnt feel like a new thread so putting this here.

Since we have had new uniforms each of the last decades, is it time to start looking for a revamp? 2002, 2012, 2022?

I want something like this with a few minor tweaks: