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2019 Patriots' News

Yankee Traveler

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What you just said right here just shows how little you understand the job that a person would be asked to do here. You are far from having all the details to try and make a judgment call on this person. My wife and I both do counseling and do you know how many times we end up telling people they are not ready to receive the help that they say they want? I have a rule that if a person meets with me for 6 sessions and there is very little or no change then I tell them they either need to seek someone with better credentials or rethink why they are there. People like Robert Kraft are some of the more difficult people to actually talk to because they have been so used to everyone around them kissing their backside. It wouldn't shock me that this guy came up to Kraft wanting to talk and Kraft wanted nothing of it. At that point if they don't want help then what is the point of sticking around?

I don't know if that is the case at all, but for you to sit here and judge this guy for stepping down after he has been with that organization through thick and thin says more about your character than his.

You cannot change a person, they have to want to change.
Just like an addict quitting smoking/drinking/gambling...they have to want it.
 

nefansince75

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What you just said right here just shows how little you understand the job that a person would be asked to do here. You are far from having all the details to try and make a judgment call on this person. My wife and I both do counseling and do you know how many times we end up telling people they are not ready to receive the help that they say they want? I have a rule that if a person meets with me for 6 sessions and there is very little or no change then I tell them they either need to seek someone with better credentials or rethink why they are there. People like Robert Kraft are some of the more difficult people to actually talk to because they have been so used to everyone around them kissing their backside. It wouldn't shock me that this guy came up to Kraft wanting to talk and Kraft wanted nothing of it. At that point if they don't want help then what is the point of sticking around?

I don't know if that is the case at all, but for you to sit here and judge this guy for stepping down after he has been with that organization through thick and thin says more about your character than his.
Why would Kraft want to talk to him about an embarrasing situation in which he knows what mistake was made and why? This guy was the team' character coach and Kraft isn't on the team.

.... and the people like Robert Kraft comment is out of line. Kraft is a self made man who didn't have others fawning over him his entire life. He knows how to treat others with respects. Despite his poor choice, evidence suggests he treateded his masseuses with respect as evidensed by hugs.
 

BigKen

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Actually even if charges are dropped we all know Goodell will try and give RKK the death penalty regardless.

They screwed up when they stopped his car. He wasn't violating any traffic laws, they were stopping him to verify who he was.

There's also a question about the cameras in the spa. According to the warrant it was for investigating human trafficking and not supposed to video anything else.

Sounds on the surface that Kraft's lawyers just might might prosecute a a couple of prosecuters.
 

BigKen

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By Kevin Duffy | [email protected] | Boston Herald
PUBLISHED: March 1, 2019 at 11:51 pm | UPDATED: March 2, 2019 at 6:02 am

INDIANAPOLIS — As Bill Belichick, Nick Caserio and the rest of the Patriots brass evaluates potential draftees at this week’s NFL Combine, they’re juggling a few dozen decisions on impending free agents.

And of all the positions that could experience turnover next season, Tom Brady’s cast of receivers looks most certain to undergo significant change.

It wouldn’t be a surprise to see Chris Hogan, Phillip Dorsett, and Cordarrelle Patterson in new uniforms next season. All three become unrestricted free agents at the beginning of the 2019 league year.

The Pats are making an effort to retain Dorsett, though. The two sides have engaged in conversations regarding a potential return, according to a source.

The fourth-year receiver was extremely efficient this past season, catching a team-high 76.2 percent of his targets. After a solid September, Dorsett saw his playing time evaporate when Julian Edelman returned from suspension and the team traded for Josh Gordon. There was interest in Dorsett at the trade deadline, but the Pats elected to keep him.

Now, Dorsett figures to draw a solid market in free agency. He’s well-respected by teammates and coaches and, at 26 years old, should be entering the prime of his career. Dorsett appears intent on letting his market unfold and making a decision from there. If last year’s free agency was any indication, Dorsett could be in for a decent payday. Wide receivers Taylor Gabriel and Albert Wilson each received more than $14 million guaranteed on the open market a year ago. Neither player had topped 625 yards in a season prior to signing the contract. Dorsett’s career-high of 528 yards came in his second year with the Colts.

While the money will obviously be important, Dorsett wants to land in a situation that will give him consistent opportunity and targets, whether it’s with the Patriots or somewhere else.

Hogan, who was signed to a three-year, $12 million deal in the 2016 offseason, could be on the move. Despite a down year, Hogan has drawn interest from many teams across the league, according to a source. In three seasons with the Pats, Hogan averaged 41.3 receiving yards per game. Hogan is 30 years old, so he may be more affordable than other middle-tier free agent options.

Patterson is a tough one. He’s unpolished as a receiver, but ranks second in league history to Gale Sayers with an average of 30 yards per kick return and played well at running back when given the chance.


If the Patriots want to refuel their receiving corps with a receiver such as Golden Tate or Adam Humphries, or potentially a superstar via trade, it will cost them. The free agent receiver market exploded in the spring of 2018.

Outside of a possible receiver overhaul, the obvious priority for the Patriots is re-upping star defensive end Trey Flowers. Asked by the Herald about progress on a new contract, Flowers’ agent, Neil Cornich, said there is “nothing to report.” Flowers is a consensus top-10 overall free agent.

The Pats are in a fine spot financially with just over $17 million in cap space, according to Boston Sports Journal. Still, undoubtedly there will be efforts to clear additional space, especially if the team is looking to pursue high-profile receivers.

At the moment, it doesn’t look like contract restructures for veterans Devin McCourty or Dont’a Hightower are part of the plan. Neither player has been approached about taking a pay cut, according to sources. McCourty’s cap hit of $13.4 million could be lowered if the Pats extend him another year. This upcoming season is the final year of his contract.

Hightower is entering the third season of a four-year deal signed in 2017. His contract, worth $37 million in total, is a manageable one for the Patriots. After a strong finish to the 2018 season and another utterly dominant Super Bowl performance, Hightower doesn’t appear to be willing to shave off a few million if the Pats asked.

As for the Patriots’ in-house free agents?

Patriots release veteran tight end Dwayne Allen
Veteran cornerback Jason McCourty wants to keep playing in 2019 and would love to remain with the Pats. Fellow cornerback Jonathan Jones is a restricted free agent. The Pats are expected to tender him imminently. A second-round tender, which is projected to pay $3.1 million for the 2019 season, seems logical.

The Pats have been in contact with free agent punter Ryan Allen, a source said. In an interview last month with the Herald’s Karen Guregian, Allen said he’d like to stay, but added, “it’s going to come down to what’s right for the team.”

There has been no discussion of a renewed contract between the Patriots and defensive tackle Malcom Brown, a source said.

Brown, the team’s first-round pick in 2015, has started 52 games in a Patriots uniform. The Pats declined his fifth-year option prior to this past season.
 

Southieinnc

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My opinion:

Cutting Allen was because he is overpaid as a blocker and would not take pay cut.

Dorsett "listening to the offers" means the Pats won't pay $11 million plus for a receiver that Brady won't throw to.

$3 million for Hogan likely means we keep him - if he accepts it.

There will be lots of talk about the Patriots and Kyler Murray. Talk, talk, talk.....

Patterson was used very well in Patriots offense. If he goes to _______ will he be used correctly?
If another team pays him big money, they will not be able to afford him sitting around for the occasional gadget play.
 

NWPATSFAN

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The saving grace may be this is a strong WR class which could limit how much these guys get offered on the open market.

Hogan unfortunately disappeared on us. Still scratching my head why. Let him walk unless he is cheap.

Not a fan of Dorsett. He had a couple nice games and some great catches but not giving him anything like he wants.

Patterson great KR and gaget guy but not as a receiver. Let him walk.

Go get a guy like Tate and draft a big fastvoutside guy in the 2nd or 3rd and hope he can have chemistry with TB.
 

NWPATSFAN

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They screwed up when they stopped his car. He wasn't violating any traffic laws, they were stopping him to verify who he was.

There's also a question about the cameras in the spa. According to the warrant it was for investigating human trafficking and not supposed to video anything else.

Sounds on the surface that Kraft's lawyers just might might prosecute a a couple of prosecuters.
They screwed up with no audio.
I still can't believe those pervs in FL. were allowed to put cameras in the massage rooms. Then decided to watch them for months.
 

BigKen

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Greg M. Cooper-USA TODAY Sports
The New England Patriots have a long list of players about to hit free agency in not even two weeks, and now we know how much it would cost them to apply the franchise or transition tag to keep one of them from entering the open market on March 13. With the league setting the 2019 salary cap number at $188.2 million, the tag numbers look as follows:

Quarterback: $24.865 million (FT), $22.783 million (TT)

Defensive end: $17.128 million (FT), $14.360 million (TT)

Wide receiver: $16.787 million (FT), $14.794 million (TT)

Cornerback: $16.022 million (FT), $13.703 million (TT)

Linebacker: $15.443 million (FT), $13.222 million (TT)

Defensive tackle: $15.209 million (FT), $12.378 million (TT)

Offensive lineman: $14.067 million (FT), $12.866 million (TT)

Running back: $11.214 million (FT), $9.099 million (TT)

Safety: $11.15 million (FT), $9.531 million (TT)

Tight end: $10.387 million (FT), $8.815 million (TT)

Kicker/Punter: $4.971 million (FT), $4.537 million (TT)

Every unrestricted free agent but only one player per club can be tagged. For the Patriots, this means that 17 players can receive the franchise or transition tags this year. Of course, not all of them are worth being tagged. Realistically, there are only three players the Patriots might consider for the one-year, fully guaranteed tag: defensive end Trey Flowers, offensive tackle Trent Brown, and kicker Stephen Gostkowski.

While Brown and Flowers are the team’s undisputed top free agents, the team might shy away from using the tag on them — too small is New England’s financial wiggle room as it stands even after Dwayne Allen’s release; too rich the one-year deal in comparison. The third option, kicker Stephen Gostkowski, might therefore be more realistic: Gostkowski already received the tag in 2013 and it would not be surprising if the team again used it in order to set up a longer-term contract with the 35-year old.

The NFL also announced the tender levels for restricted free agents,

First-round tender: $4.407 million

Second-round tender: $3.095 million

Original-round tender: $2.025 million

The Patriots have one restricted free agent in Jonathan Jones and it would not be a surprise to see the team use the second round tender on him — especially considering that fellow cornerback Jason McCourty is about to hit unrestricted free agency. The move would give New England the right of first refusal of any incoming offers, and compensation in case the former undrafted free agent left to sign elsewhere.

More From Pats Pulpit
 

BigKen

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INDIANAPOLIS — The New England Patriots wisely and predictably are looking at defensive linemen in the 2019 NFL Draft.

The Patriots have met with the following defensive linemen either at the NFL Scouting Combine or Senior Bowl:

Notre Dame DT Jerry Tillery: formal combine
Ohio State DT Dre’Mont Jones: formal combine
Kansas DT Daniel Wise: formal combine scheduled
Miami DT Gerald Willis: formal combine scheduled
Eastern Michigan DE Maxx Crosby: hour-long informal combine
Florida DE Cece Jefferson: informal combine
Clemson DE Austin Bryant: informal combine
Washington DT Greg Gaines: informal combine
Miami DE Joe Jackson: informal combine
Penn State DE Shareef Miller: informal combine
North Carolina A&T DE Darryl Johnson: informal combine
Boston College DT Zach Allen: Senior Bowl, informal combine
Texas DL Charles Omenihu: Senior Bowl
TCU DE Ben Banogu: Senior Bowl
Charleston DL John Cominsky: Senior Bowl
Maryland DT Byron Cowart: Senior Bowl
Georgia DT Jonathan Ledbetter: Senior Bowl
Iowa DL Anthony Nelson: Senior Bowl
Alabama DT Isaiah Buggs: Senior Bowl
Akron DE Jamal Davis: phone call

The Patriots’ top free agent is defensive end Trey Flowers, who might command more money on the open market than the Patriots are willing to spend. Defensive tackles Danny Shelton and Malcom Brown and defensive end John Simon also are free agents. Defensive end Adrian Clayborn could wind up being a cap casualty after being inactive as a healthy scratch for a stretch during the 2018 season.

The Patriots are returning defensive ends Deatrich Wise, Derek Rivers, Keionta Davis and Ufomba Kamalu and defensive tackles Lawrence Guy and Adam Butler. Among those six players, only Guy has been a dependable starter.
 

BigKen

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The Patriots have relatively significant history pairing up brothers on their roster. The McCourty twins, Gronkowskis and Hollister twins are just a few of the recent examples of brothers playing together in New England.

Come draft weekend a Patriots team that certainly may be in need of help on the defensive line could add another brother combo to the mix as current defensive end Deatrich Wise Jr.’s younger brother, Daniel, is a defensive tackle prospect out of Kansas.

Similar to Wise Jr. landing in New England as a fourth-round prospect out of Arkansas in 2017, the latest Wise is also a mid-round prospect after an All-Big 12 career for the Jayhawks. A captain at Kansas, Wise finished his four-year career with 43 tackles for a loss and 17 sacks in 42 games. He considered entering the draft a year ago and despite his team’s struggles this fall has no regrets about returning for his senior campaign.

“Not even once. I loved going back to school,” Wise said. “I loved the opportunity, the lessons I’ve learned going back for those several months. An opportunity to learn more under coach Clint Bowen. Mature a little bit in the game. The opportunity has been amazing.”

While finishing out his college career, Wise has been along for the ride with his brother’s impressive start in New England. Wise Jr. played in all 32 games in his first two seasons with the Patriots and made two trips to the Super Bowl, with his younger brother a guest on both of those trips.

“I was blessed enough to go to both of them, the one they won and the one they lost. Both were an amazing experience,” Wise said. “It’s awesome to be there. When I go there it’s as a huge fan of my older brother and the Patriots. It’s amazing.”

Wise is a different type of player than his older brother. He’s more of interior cog with a shorter build. But he made it clear there are similarities as well. One thing for sure is the two sons of military parents have affable, outgoing personalities.

“I don’t know if I can match his, but I’m just as joyful,” Wise said with a big smile at his Combine press conference. “I really don’t compare mine to his (game). We have similar body types, similar aggression. Same d-line coach, our father, for the last umpteen years of our life. But we do have similar personalities.”

And Wise has gotten some advice from his sibling, a guy who’s been there and done that in terms of the Combine experience.

“He said just relax and enjoy the Combine. The good, the bad, the ugly,” Wise said. “It is what it’s going to be. He’s been helpful, my older brother. Every step of the way everything I need, everything I didn’t know I needed, he’s given me advice on. We talk, even just a few minutes ago.”

Wise has also been advised as to what life in New England is like.

“It’s awesome. What better team to play for, so he says,” Wise said. “Obviously they went to the Super Bowl two years in a row. Got the ring this year. It’s the Patriot Way.”

While Wise has been to two Super Bowls with his brother and been around the team a bit, he’s yet to actually meet Bill Belichick.

“I’ve seen him. I’ve never really shook his hand or said hello, not yet,” Wise said with a smirk. “I mean, that’s Bill Belichick. You just kind of let him walk past you. They have a great team, a great atmosphere around there.”

It’s an atmosphere he wouldn’t mind experiencing himself, especially considering that’s where his brother found an NFL home.

“That idea has been a dream of ours forever,” Daniel Wise said of possibly playing with Deatrich. “Hopefully one day we can make it happen.”

Oh, and for the record, which of the Wise brothers is better? (There is actually a third brother, Solomon, currently playing at University of Texas at San Antonio.)

“I’m going to say I’m better,” Wise said smiling.
 

BigKen

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Bill Belichick, Patriots considering unique option on coaching staff

  • i

    Mike ReissESPN Staff Writer
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- Here are some quick-hit thoughts and notes around the New England Patriots and the NFL:

1. With five coaches leaving the Patriots after Super Bowl LIII, one of the items on Bill Belichick's agenda has been filling out his staff, and some of the talk at the NFL combine has been that special-teams coach Joe Judge is under consideration to be an addition on offense. Judge keeping an eye on offensive drills at the combine could be a tip-off that the team is moving in that direction.


The Patriots lost wide receivers coach Chad O'Shea (Dolphins offensive coordinator) and assistant quarterbacks coach Jerry Schuplinski (he's in the same role in Miami), in addition to defensive playcaller Brian Flores (Dolphins head coach), defensive-line coach Brendan Daly (Chiefs run-game coordinator/defensive line) and cornerbacks coach Josh Boyer (Dolphins pass-game coordinator/cornerbacks).

For special-teams coaches with interest in becoming head coaches, there has been frustration in recent years because of their limited opportunities to do so. The most recent team to hire a special-teams coach as head coach was the Baltimore Ravens with John Harbaugh (2008).

A move to offense for Judge -- while helping the Patriots -- would also potentially give him a greater chance for a head-coaching opportunity in the future.

Although nothing is official at this point and Belichick will always consider all options, I thought the possibility of Judge delving into some offensive coaching was one of the more notable Patriots-specific nuggets from the combine.

2. Tight end Rob Gronkowski continues to be a frequent visitor at Gillette Stadium, as he has been one of a handful of players cycling through the facility in recent weeks. That isn't necessarily a sign that he intends to play in 2019 -- he could be in for treatment -- but the difference in how he has handled this offseason compared with last year is notable. Gronkowski seldom showed up at the facility, if at all, in the 2018 offseason, as he was looking for more of a clean break from football.

3a. Belichick was awarded a "game ball" by the Fritz Pollard Alliance -- recognition by the group for his work in helping level "the playing field in diversity and inclusion in the NFL." The award was presented Thursday at the combine, and with Belichick arriving in Indianapolis one day later, he expressed how much the award meant to him in video remarks. He discussed how the Fritz Pollard Alliance works to create opportunities, how fortunate he felt to be given an opportunity early in his career, and how he's tried to pay that back to others through the years. He praised the leadership of John Wooten with the Fritz Pollard Alliance, as well as former Giants linebacker Harry Carson, who is set to expand his presence with the organization. "I go back to my days at Cleveland, when I learned so much from Jim Brown about diversity and about how to relate and connect to people -- both players and coaches as they came up through football," Belichick said in the remarks. "He took me back to his days in the 60s with Coach [Paul] Brown and his time with the Cleveland Browns, and I learned so much from him during those five years I was with the Browns. That has continued to be part of our lifelong friendship."

3b. The positive response on Twitter from current and former players and staffers about Jim Whalen earning the Fain-Cain Memorial Award for Outstanding NFL Athletic Trainer of the Year reflected the widespread respect that Whalen has earned. He began his professional career as an assistant athletic trainer for the Patriots in 1992-93, and after stops at the University of Miami, Kansas State and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, he returned to New England in 2002 as the team's head athletic trainer. Whalen, who graduated from Bridgewater State College (Massachusetts) in 1993, is also a member of the NFL's General Medical Committee, which focuses on medical issues relevant to the health and safety of active NFL players.

4. The departure of Patriots character coach/team development coach Jack Easterby after six seasons generated some buzz on sports radio in the region, as Easterby played a notable role in helping foster a positive team culture by providing great support to players. He also wouldn't be shy, according to those familiar with his work, in offering a hard, honest opinion. Easterby's contract expired this year, and had Josh McDaniels taken the Colts' head-coaching job last offseason, my sense is that Easterby would have joined him in Indianapolis. That's one reason his departure this year didn't come as a surprise. Jason La Canfora of CBS has reported Easterby is in discussions to join the Panthers' staff.

5. The Eagles' decision not to place the franchise tag on quarterback Nick Foles, allowing him to become a free agent, had me thinking about some similarities to the challenges the Patriots faced when they were plotting what to do with Jimmy Garoppolo. If the Eagles believed there was a realistic tag-and-trade market for Foles, it's hard to believe they would not have pursued it. The issue, as the Patriots discovered with Garoppolo, is that there are only so many teams looking for a quarterback and willing to pay a premium price. Also, an additional challenge is devoting salary-cap space to a tagged player such as that while addressing other areas of need on the roster.

6. Outside linebacker John Simon turned into a valuable contributor for the Patriots in 2018, and the club is already talking to him about extending his contract. One of the things that struck me in talking to Simon last week and is always a good reminder during the draft season is that players develop at different rates. Simon was refreshingly honest in discussing his initial years in the NFL after being selected in the 2013 fourth round by the Ravens (No. 129 overall). "I was really buried by depth, and those players were better than me at the time," Simon said, referring to the likes of Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil, among others. He spent a year mostly developing behind the scenes and was on the practice squad for about a month in Year 2 before the Texans signed him. The Texans had good intelligence with Mike Vrabel, one of Simon's coaches at Ohio State, on their staff. That's when Simon's career began to ascend.

7. Texans coach Bill O'Brien spoke glowingly about Flores at the combine, as the two worked closely during their time with the Patriots. Although the Dolphins might have hired Flores this offseason regardless, O'Brien privately relayed similar thoughts to Miami's brain trust, and that made an impression on them. Those words, coupled with a strong recommendation from Jaguars coach Doug Marrone, strengthened Flores' candidacy behind the scenes.

8. One of the benefits of having so many coaches with Patriots ties spread across the NFL is the opportunity it can open for former players. One example: Former New England center Ryan Wendell (2009-15) has hooked on with the Bills as an offensive assistant under coordinator Brian Daboll, the longtime Patriots receivers coach. It is Wendell's first NFL coaching job. A similar situation has unfolded in Miami, with former Patriots receiver Tiquan Underwood earning his first NFL job as a quality-control coach on the staff of Flores.

9. Offensive lineman LaAdrian Waddle, who re-signed with the Patriots in 2018 on a modest, one-year deal, gets another crack at the free-agent market this year. Waddle proved again to be a valuable swing emergency option (three starts), so it will be interesting to see if his market rises beyond the $200,000 signing bonus and $800,000 of his most recent deal. With starting left tackle Trent Brown also hitting free agency and 2018 first-round draft pick Isaiah Wynn coming off an Achilles injury, Waddle's value to New England could increase.

10. Patriots fans looking to add to their collection of Super Bowl championship videos can mark Tuesday as the date for the release of "Super Bowl LIII Champions: New England Patriots," and here is a sneak preview of parts of it, with receiver Julian Edelman's reference to Lionel Ritchie and "All Night Long" a personal
 

BigKen

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"The Patriots are never afraid to move on from a big name and Dont'a Hightower could very well be the latest in 2019. Bill Belichick is notorious for trading a player away a year or two early so he can retain some value and that's where Hightower is at the moment.

He has two years remaining on his contract and his dead cap numbers are starting to become manageable enough to deal him. Hightower's also coming off of the healthiest year of his career since his sophomore season in the league while totaling 48 tackles, a sack and six quarterback hits. He was also dominant in Super Bowl LIII.

If the Patriots feel confident in second-year linebackers Ja'Whaun Bentley and Christian Sam along with Kyle Van Noy going forward, trading Hightower may not be too much of a stretch if the right deal comes around," Tyler Sullivan of New England Patriots on 247Sports
 

NWPATSFAN

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"The Patriots are never afraid to move on from a big name and Dont'a Hightower could very well be the latest in 2019. Bill Belichick is notorious for trading a player away a year or two early so he can retain some value and that's where Hightower is at the moment.

He has two years remaining on his contract and his dead cap numbers are starting to become manageable enough to deal him. Hightower's also coming off of the healthiest year of his career since his sophomore season in the league while totaling 48 tackles, a sack and six quarterback hits. He was also dominant in Super Bowl LIII.

If the Patriots feel confident in second-year linebackers Ja'Whaun Bentley and Christian Sam along with Kyle Van Noy going forward, trading Hightower may not be too much of a stretch if the right deal comes around," Tyler Sullivan of New England Patriots on 247Sports

Prior to his outstanding performance in the SB I would've been on board. Guess depending on what they get in return? Would be nice to free up some $.
 

Shoeshine Boy

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The Patriots announced they released tight end Dwayne Allen and receiver Darren Andrews on Monday
 

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@RapSheet

While the #Patriots have not ruled out the franchise tag today, it likely won’t be on K Stephen Gostkowski. Source said he’s not expected to be tagged, though obviously the team very much wants to bring their Pro Bowler back.
 

BigKen

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Heard on the radio today that the patriotsmay tag Tre Flowers and then trade him like they did Matt Cassell. They'd rather do that than see him go to Miami and play against them and get nothing but a third round pick in return.
 

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Heard on the radio today that the patriotsmay tag Tre Flowers and then trade him like they did Matt Cassell. They'd rather do that than see him go to Miami and play against them and get nothing but a third round pick in return.

I guess that is a better strategy if they can't afford to pay him.
 

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@tomecurran

Franchise deadline is 4 PM. I’m told we shouldn’t expect the patriots to apply the tag to anyone. Only candidates would really be Flowers and Gostkowski.
 

YankeeRebel

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@tomecurran

Franchise deadline is 4 PM. I’m told we shouldn’t expect the patriots to apply the tag to anyone. Only candidates would really be Flowers and Gostkowski.
Doesn't surprise the Pats have often told players " Go feel out the market see what's out there then let's talk" it's not an uncommon move by them.
 
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