2019 Offseason

[seahawksfan234]

For Kyler murray...i watched highlights
But never saw him under the center

He is always in the shotgun....i don't think
Any team runs the shotgun that much

I think Arizona will go with Ohio State qb

For what it's worth, the shotgun has become almost a standard base formation nowadays.

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

I'm not going to average all the numbers together, but it looks like around 65% or so of all plays are out of the shotgun. Kansas City ran 80% of their plays from shotgun formations.

Murray is a unique talent and I do think he will have a lot of success and it won't be too difficult crafting an offense around him. I'm really interested in seeing how his NFL career goes.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yep... given his height he'll exclusively need to play in the shotgun... an offense will have to be designed around him IMO, which begs the question of what do you do for a backup QB (you need to find a similar skillset).

I know it's difficult to compare these two players, but Russell Wilson is only around a half an inch taller than Murray and doesn't seem to have too much difficulty playing behind center.

I don't think half an inch will make much of a difference, although I'm sure my exs would likely disagree.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I know it's difficult to compare these two players, but Russell Wilson is only around a half an inch taller than Murray and doesn't seem to have too much difficulty playing behind center.

I don't think half an inch will make much of a difference, although I'm sure my exs would likely disagree.

I mean official measurement sure... but there's no way Murray is 5'10"+. Combine was clearly measuring him with cleats or including the afro. That mother fuckin' dwarf is 5'9" at BEST.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yep... given his height he'll exclusively need to play in the shotgun... an offense will have to be designed around him IMO, which begs the question of what do you do for a backup QB (you need to find a similar skillset).

I already responded to this, but another point about Murray:

The question of the backup QB is an interesting one, and one that is quite pertinent. He never had any major injuries when he played college football, but I'd be concerned about a guy with his frame getting dinged up.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I mean official measurement sure... but there's no way Murray is 5'10"+. Combine was clearly measuring him with cleats or including the afro. That mother fuckin' dwarf is 5'9" at BEST.

I'll generally defer to the NFL combine measurements due to the fact that they are almost always lower than what the colleges release.

The more surprising thing to me was him weighing in at 207lbs. Probably went on an eating/water chugging binge and that's why he didn't want to run.

He honestly looks like a DB playing QB. No way his playing weight was above 190 even.

All that aside I think he has a promising future but I think it's reasonable to suspect he'll have injury issues.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'll generally defer to the NFL combine measurements due to the fact that they are almost always lower than what the colleges release.

The more surprising thing to me was him weighing in at 207lbs. Probably went on an eating/water chugging binge and that's why he didn't want to run.

He honestly looks like a DB playing QB. No way his playing weight was above 190 even.

All that aside I think he has a promising future but I think it's reasonable to suspect he'll have injury issues.

That's a really solid point on his weight. I seem to recall he was like 190 lbs in College. I mean end of day 1-2" isn't massively shorter than Wilson but there's a lot of passing plays Wilson goes with a playaction (backs off the line some) or shotgun... at least from what I recall when I watched Seattle the last several years.

Wilson is pretty stocky though... and he had MUCH more college EXP (with a pro style offense if I recall correctly) than Murray who had 1 year in an absolute shit defensive division. I think he'll get blown up in the NFL.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That's a really solid point on his weight. I seem to recall he was like 190 lbs in College. I mean end of day 1-2" isn't massively shorter than Wilson but there's a lot of passing plays Wilson goes with a playaction (backs off the line some) or shotgun... at least from what I recall when I watched Seattle the last several years.

Wilson is pretty stocky though... and he had MUCH more college EXP (with a pro style offense if I recall correctly) than Murray who had 1 year in an absolute shit defensive division. I think he'll get blown up in the NFL.

This is my biggest issue regarding the physical comparisons between Wilson and Murray.

The bulk up to 207lbs was all for show. It's a number to put down that makes you think "Oh he had a similar weight to Wilson," but they're both physically built much different. Additionally I'm willing to bet a lot of that is water weight to boost up his "official" weight.

When you look at Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray you'd assume there was a 20lb+ difference between them. As you mentioned, Wilson is pretty stocky - which I believe is one of the reasons he's able to sustain so many blows. Wilson is built like a HB, Murray is built like a slim CB.

I think Murray will have an excellent career, but he doesn't strike me as someone who will be able to take the blows required of an NFL QB.

My biggest concern with Murray is the injury risk and the fact that he'll have to throw in much tighter windows in the NFL. At times he struggled making throws over the middle and for some reason really struggled with throws in the flats.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

This is my biggest issue regarding the physical comparisons between Wilson and Murray.

The bulk up to 207lbs was all for show. It's a number to put down that makes you think "Oh he had a similar weight to Wilson," but they're both physically built much different. Additionally I'm willing to bet a lot of that is water weight to boost up his "official" weight.

When you look at Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray you'd assume there was a 20lb+ difference between them. As you mentioned, Wilson is pretty stocky - which I believe is one of the reasons he's able to sustain so many blows. Wilson is built like a HB, Murray is built like a slim CB.

I think Murray will have an excellent career, but he doesn't strike me as someone who will be able to take the blows required of an NFL QB.

Agree with everything, but I can't say I think Murray will have a great career. Outside of size/injuries, he has ONE proven year against one of the worst college defensive divisions.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Agree with everything, but I can't say I think Murray will have a great career. Outside of size/injuries, he has ONE proven year against one of the worst college defensive divisions.

I will say that to me, Murray will be the most interesting player to watch in 2019. With the way that Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes performed in 2018, and the way that Russell Wilson has been able to overcome height issues, I think the Murray hype shows that the NFL is no longer concerned about drafting players that come from "gimmicky" college spread offenses.

This could be a pretty bold statement, but 10 years ago I don't think that Murray would've been drafted due to concerns about his offensive scheme and his size.

Concerns about Wilson's height alone pushed him to the 3rd round.

Interesting article about Mahomes for anyone interested:

Patrick Mahomes Is Proving That QBs From Gimmicky College Offenses Can Succeed In The NFL

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I will say that to me, Murray will be the most interesting player to watch in 2019. With the way that Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes performed in 2018, and the way that Russell Wilson has been able to overcome height issues, I think the Murray hype shows that the NFL is no longer concerned about drafting players that come from "gimmicky" college spread offenses.

This could be a pretty bold statement, but 10 years ago I don't think that Murray would've been drafted due to concerns about his offensive scheme and his size.

Concerns about Wilson's height alone pushed him to the 3rd round.

Very true, but Wilson is an extreme minority these days (height wise) in terms of elite QBs. Wilson also had what... 3 years of starting experience (2 I believe in a pro style offense)? I feel like everyone is just hyping Murray because of Wilson and while he had a good senior year.. it was ONE season (not Wilson's 3) in a absolute shit division defensively. This years draft class is also quite weak for QBs (and players in general) - so I feel Murray made the smart decision to cash in now on a pretty bleh class. I'd say this is somewhat on par with the 2009 class in terms of weakness.

If it wasn't for Wilson, Murray would likely not be going #1 overall let alone top 10.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Very true, but Wilson is an extreme minority these days (height wise) in terms of elite QBs. Wilson also had what... 3 years of starting experience (2 I believe in a pro style offense)? I feel like everyone is just hyping Murray because of Wilson and while he had a good senior year.. it was ONE season (not Wilson's 3) in a absolute shit division defensively. This years draft class is also quite weak for QBs (and players in general) - so I feel Murray made the smart decision to cash in now on a pretty bleh class. I'd say this is somewhat on par with the 2009 class in terms of weakness.

If it wasn't for Wilson, Murray would likely not be going #1 overall let alone top 10.

I think you're right. It's a combination of Wilson and Patrick Mahomes.

My opinion is that he could be perceived as a shorter version of Michael Vick who can throw and they're not concerned about him playing in Oklahoma's offense due to the fact that QBs from similar systems have fared pretty well.

He's a boom or bust prospect and he really needs to have the right offensive scheme in order to succeed.

You're right that the QB class is awful though.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think you're right. It's a combination of Wilson and Patrick Mahomes.

My opinion is that he could be perceived as a shorter version of Michael Vick who can throw and they're not concerned about him playing in Oklahoma's offense due to the fact that QBs from similar systems have fared pretty well.

He's a boom or bust prospect and he really needs to have the right offensive scheme in order to succeed.

You're right that the QB class is awful though.

100% agreed here. I'm not sure Kingsbury (or a # of early team drafting HC/OCs) will bring that... (assuming AZ drafts him).

 

[ulmax]

I think Missouri QB will go #1 cuz of the Johnny manzel risk..yeah he was a shotgun qb as well

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think Missouri QB will go #1 cuz of the Johnny manzel risk..yeah he was a shotgun qb as well

That's an interesting thought. I haven't seen Lock projected to go #1 in any mock drafts I've checked recently. It seems to me that most consider Murray and Haskins to be the two best QBs in the 2019 draft.

 

[wazzu31]

Agree with everything, but I can't say I think Murray will have a great career. Outside of size/injuries, he has ONE proven year against one of the worst college defensive divisions.

True, but to counter that. Wilson was an average QB in the ACC then went to a conference who’s defenses hadn’t produced a decent QB in decades. The Big 12 doesn’t play defense but they produced the best QB in the game and easily the best rookie. If Arizona doesn’t take Murray then Kingsbury is a one year coach.

 

[seahawksfan234]

True, but to counter that. Wilson was an average QB in the ACC then went to a conference who’s defenses hadn’t produced a decent QB in decades. The Big 12 doesn’t play defense but they produced the best QB in the game and easily the best rookie. If Arizona doesn’t take Murray then Kingsbury is a one year coach.

I wonder what the Cardinals will get for Josh Nosen-Rosen and who would be interested. He had a poor 2018 and has some serious flaws, but he does have elite arm talent.

 

[wazzu31]

I wonder what the Cardinals will get for Josh Nosen-Rosen and who would be interested. He had a poor 2018 and has some serious flaws, but he does have elite arm talent.

No clue, in a logical world the Cards should get the pick of whoever wants Haskins or Lock because Rosen is better than either of them. Murray is just the perfect and really only QB in this class for Kingsbury if he really is going to install his version of the Air Raid and it is probably is the only system that he could semi succeed in the NFL. Wilson had far better arm strength, accuracy and the NFL body than Murray coming into the draft and didn’t need to have an entire offense build around being in shotgun.

 

[ulmax]

I know it's difficult to compare these two players, but Russell Wilson is only around a half an inch taller than Murray and doesn't seem to have too much difficulty playing behind center.

I don't think half an inch will make much of a difference, although I'm sure my exs would likely disagree.

Really as with Wilson the size of the guy is
Not the issue
If.......
The guy fits the offence the team runs
For example
Not wilson....tom brady...there are a lot of guys tom Brady's size..none of them but him are
....tom brady...so when you pick a QB...you
Best play the game he playes the best
Or change the offence to do so

That said..arizona is not a shotgun team
Scooby doo...arrrhh....maybe yet....lol

 

[ulmax]

I know a lot of people are saying trade rosen
I think one of two things is the actual case

1.they keep rosen.and draft the best non QB player

2.or they trade with the team who actually
Murray fits the offence...atlanta comes to mind
Or Jacksonville may want to RISK it

If gruden thinks he wants murry (dubtfull...but maybe)...then Oakland. .they have the most ammo

 

[seahawksfan234]

No clue, in a logical world the Cards should get the pick of whoever wants Haskins or Lock because Rosen is better than either of them. Murray is just the perfect and really only QB in this class for Kingsbury if he really is going to install his version of the Air Raid and it is probably is the only system that he could semi succeed in the NFL. Wilson had far better arm strength, accuracy and the NFL body than Murray coming into the draft and didn’t need to have an entire offense build around being in shotgun.

I'm actually with you on Rosen being better than Haskins and Lock. He has his personality/leadership concerns but he has a lot of talent and potential and I'm not a huge fan of either Haskins or Lock.