2019 Offseason Thread

[trojanfan12]

Players want to lose?
You are out of your fucking mind.

I don't think he's talking about players wanting to lose.

I think that most of us here agree that players and coaches don't tank, FO's do.

The Cavs players and coaches are trying to win every game they play in. The Cavs FO is making sure they don't have the talent/experience to win.

 

[dtgold88]

Your leaving out the part that they needed LeBron to go back, as well as their draft luck to do it.
Your post makes it sound totally different.
Like LeBron left and they found a way to win without him.

OK...they also attracted Lebron to come back with good, young talent, cap space and draft picks to trade. Miami had middling talent and no cap space to bring him back.

 

[dtgold88]

So you agree Cavs were smart to make sure they kept their pick. why'd is take so many words to come to that conclusion?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

consciously deciding to rent out cap space and not improve so you can keep your top 10 protected pick is the definition of trying to lose on purpose. I have no clue what you are talking

Not playing your best players increases your chances of losing.
Cavs didnt do that.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Actually, they really only "underachieved" last year and that was due to injuries. Although, you could definitely say their FO underachieved when Short Buss was running things.



Yeah, if you're a franchise in a "non-destination city", losing is arguably the best way to go about rebuilding.

Even then, it's hard to make it work because the timing has to be perfect so that you can build a contender before the star you got in the draft leaves for another team. But it's better than trying to land FA's that you know aren't likely to sign.

I've also never understood the "Cavs way" vs. the "Heat way" argument as it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

The Cavs, being in a non-destination city, have to build through the draft and trades. So, they kind of have to lose so they can gather the assets to win later.

The Heat, being located in a destination city, can try to remain competitive rather than tank because they can eventually attract top players to come in as FA's.

Given a choice, I doubt any team chooses to "tank". No one wants to lose. But if the choice is lose for a few years to build a possible contender, or just be a team that is a 7-10 seed, if that, every year...you lose and trust that your fans will understand.

any team relying on free agents to boost their status is taking a huge huge risk.

I see post of yours from years back saying "well 2014 is the year where we will finally have cap space and sign someone".

The Mavs had been trying to clear cap space to sign a major free agent since the year they won the title and let Tyson Chandler and company go

the Knicks have been trying to sign major free agents for years to no luck

the Lakers last huge free agent acquisition before LeBron was Shaq well over 2 decades ago

In the history of the Miami Heat they have signed 3 major free agents-- Bosh and LeBon--- and they only even considered going there since the Heat already had Wade- a top 5 lotto pick---- and Alonzo Mourning.

when was the last time Chicago signed a major free agent?

when was the last time that Houston signed a major free agent?

the Clippers just signed Leonard. Before him when was the last time they signed a major free agent?--- and the ONLY reason he signed was because the CLippers had the draft capital and young players to TRADE for George to attract Leonard to get there.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

of course not

players do not tank

front offices tank

this is elementary stuff here

Only by not playing best players.
Again, Cavs didnt.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not playing your best players increases your chances of losing.
Cavs didnt do that.

you are not even allowed to do that

 

[dtgold88]

Still, shows they never tried not to win.
They played the best they had, when they could.

Lakers didnt.
Once season was lost, they didnt put their best talent on the course.

There is your difference.

I can only explain it, can’t make you comprehend it.

Cavs did not bring Love back until lottery "seed" was locked up. How many times will that need to be repeated before you comprehend it?

Of course they didn't try to win...winning meant losing their pick which is seems you agree is not wise for a rebuilding team.

McFly?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Only by not playing best players.
Again, Cavs didnt.

again--- the front office consciously provided a roster that they knew could not win.

front offices tank

players do not tank

not sure why you do not udnerstand this.

As i said- if the Cavs wanted to make the playoffs this year they without a doubt possessed the means to improve their team dramatically- but they chose to put out a team that they know will struggle to win games- and thats by design.

 

[dtgold88]

Didn't know that. Let's change it to a sassy "I an't going to play here no more. Trade my ass or pay me for sitting home playing my air guitar to MTV."

It could happen, and I really wouldn't blame him, but so far does not seem to be his M.O.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

you are not even allowed to do that

League really cant question injury reports.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't think he's talking about players wanting to lose.

I think that most of us here agree that players and coaches don't tank, FO's do.

The Cavs players and coaches are trying to win every game they play in. The Cavs FO is making sure they don't have the talent/experience to win.

Exactly....no one steps on the floor and tries to lose. Though coaches could be involved with the tank by not always playing the best players in favor of young guys.

 

[WiggyRuss]

League really cant question injury reports.

you are not using your brain.

tanking is not putting together a team that you think can win and then sitting those players when its obvious you cant win

tanking is the front office putting a team together that they KNOW is likely not to win in order to acquire more capital going forward- whether it be from losing, renting out cap space to other teams for assets, developing young guys at the expense of not signing veterans, etc.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

again--- the front office consciously provided a roster that they knew could not win.

front offices tank

players do not tank

not sure why you do not udnerstand this.

As i said- if the Cavs wanted to make the playoffs this year they without a doubt possessed the means to improve their team dramatically- but they chose to put out a team that they know will struggle to win games- and thats by design.

You still have yet to answer the question.
If we win 8 more games, for the next 3 seasons, where are they?

Or, are you on a 10 year hopeful rebuild plan?

 

[dtgold88]

Only by not playing best players.
Again, Cavs didnt.

Great, but you said "players want to lose?".......and no one said this.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

you are not using your brain.

tanking is not putting together a team that you think can win and then sitting those players when its obvious you cant win

tanking is the front office putting a team together that they KNOW is likely not to win in order to acquire more capital going forward- whether it be from losing, renting out cap space to other teams for assets, developing young guys at the expense of not signing veterans, etc.

How about waiting until this plan works before continuing to keep telling us how great it is?

That should keep you quiet

Spoiler

forever

 

[dtgold88]

You still have yet to answer the question.
If we win 8 more games, for the next 3 seasons, where are they?

Or, are you on a 10 year hopeful rebuild plan?

huh? Is "we" Miami? At around 64 wins? But so what...it's a big and unlikely if.

I'd say Cavs' rebuild is a 3-4 year plan.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Great, but you said "players want to lose?".......and no one said this.

Fans saying losing on purpose is saying it IMO.

 

[cooljack]

It could happen, and I really wouldn't blame him, but so far does not seem to be his M.O.

You're right. I was just messing with you. Love wouldn't pull anything like that he's to classy.

 

[dtgold88]

How about waiting until this plan works before continuing to keep telling us how great it is?

That should keep you quiet

Spoiler

forever

This after you wondered what happens if Miami wins an extra 8 games next 3 seasons?

Kind of a "do as I say, not as I do" guy, aren't ya?