2019 Offseason Thread

[dtgold88]

How does me saying that Riley made mistakes translate to you asking me if I think they’ll contend?

Fact is, Cavs defied the odds, more then once , which equates to luck.

FACT READ BELOW

Just like 2011 when the Cavs vaulted up the draft board from the No. 8 spot, this was unexpected; owner Dan Gilbert didn't even bother attending.

Going in with a 1.7% chance, the Cavs started the night in the ninth position. Fans were waiting for the envelope to be pulled out, expecting the Cavs' logo to be unveiled. Instead, it was the Detroit's. No need to scout Doug McDermott or Aaron Gordon anymore, it's time for the Cavs to think big. They will have their choice - Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid or Jabari Parker.

People around the NBA were shocked. ESPN's Bill Simmons was unhappy.

I get probably not in you to admit a mistake....even one based on fact. Not opinion. But here goes.......Cavs had second highest odds to win the 2011 lottery with their own pick.

2011 Draft Lottery Odds | Minnesota Timberwolves

They did end up winning with the LAC pick, but saying they had a 1.7% to win is factually incorrect. they had 1.7% PLUS roughly a 20% chance with their own pick.

 

[dtgold88]

That's what I meant when I said bad analogy as Peyton Manning is a Mt. Rushmore QB.

Agree........but even just a very good QB can take a middling team to a division title. You think steelers are anything more than a 4-5 win team with their backup QB?

 

[dtgold88]

Anything related to Cavs - you had Lebron to fall back on. At key points during the season I'm referencing, Dragic and Waiters missed significant portions of this past year where they played 36 and 44 games, respectively. When you're missing your starting backcourt for a majority of the season where your team structure is more balanced (compared to having multiple All-stars), it's still not a great recipe for success.

Dragic a solid player but Waiters is at best slightly above average. we are not talking Lillard/McCollum here. are you suggesting they are in the hunt if both played 80 games?

 

[dtgold88]

LeBron started hinting that he might come back as soon as his 2nd year in Miami.

The Cavs did get lucky in the draft, but when you have a lot of bullets, some will hit. They added tons of picks over those years.

I hope the plan is the exact same, suck for 2-3 years, rent out your cap space for assets, get a bunch of good young players and before they are up for their extensions dip into the free agent market.

I like that idea a lot better than trading lightly protected future first rounders to go from a 40 win team to a 45 win team and likely to have our ass kicked in the first round year after year- if they even make it to the first round (havent even made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years).

Cavs had a lot of swings in the draft this year and should for the next draft or two if they keep to their plan. They just have to draft well.

What I absolutely hope they do not do is scrap the rebuild, trade future first rounders, and sign a bunch of mediocre veterans to expensive deals in order to be the 7 seed.

Forget about the Sixers, id take the MAgic's roster over the Heat's any day of the week without a second thought. At least with talent like Gordon, Bamba, Isaac they have an actual prayer. Bamba is raw as they come but he will be the best player in the Southeast Division before his 25th birthday. Book it.

Not sure I'm with you on that last paragraph, but agree with the rest.

Really don't get how anyone can try and say the Miami plan was the way to go....especially with the benefit of hindsight. want to tell me Miami does not NEED to tank? I can buy that. They have other avenues to get stud players as they are a top FA destination. But wouldn't it be better when a FA wants to come to just be able to sign him?

Cavs will have $55 mil next offseason. If a Jimmy Butler wanted to come they can just sign him and add him to their recent top picks. No mention they have not done so well in the lottery the last couple years by our Miami friends I noticed.

Of course, in Cleveland it's not likely a stud FA is coming.

 

[dtgold88]

lol....i dont think anyone could possilby think Miami was a contender last year or will be one this year.

I dont even believe the biggest homer of a Heat fan would say they have ANY hope of getting out of the 2nd round if by some miracle they get out of the first round- which is extremely extremely unlikely.

but....but....but....if only they didn't lose Dragic/Waiters for so many games.

 

[dtgold88]

Nobody has suggested the Heat would do anything, so it you two want to have a back and forth on it, go right ahead.

As far as the other stuff, the Cavs have been in the league since the 70-71 season. In those seasons, without James on the roster, they have made it past the first round exactly 3 times. None of those occurrences was anywhere near recent. So keep acting like they have some successful master plan, but fact shows they have been nothing but inept.

You are telling me real Cavs fans wouldn't be thrilled to be in the playoffs?

The sucking aka 'tanking', vast majority of the time doesn't lead to much. A top player like A.D. has played a total of 13 playoff games in 7 seasons, for example, before forcing his way off the team that drafted him.

Anyway, I admittedly don't have time to watch CBB, but was there ANY better shooter then Herro, who the Heat drafted with pick 13?

and how much success have the Heat had without Wade on the roster? Know who has had more recent success between the 2 teams?

Herro looks solid, though pretty sure Fultz did in summer league for stretches so who knows? Heat definitely seem like they are very good in the draft. Imagine the team they could have built if picking high and not in the teens nearly every year.

 

[Heatles84]

Dragic a solid player but Waiters is at best slightly above average. we are not talking Lillard/McCollum here. are you suggesting they are in the hunt if both played 80 games?

You just heard Turnup and I say that this roster wasn't a serious title contender, but would be a decent playoff team. If we had a healthy Dragic and Waiters, I feel very confident that we're in the playoffs, considering we missed it by a couple of games.

 

[dtgold88]

Already been explained re: how long it took before he came off the books etc.

Yes...was explained incorrectly. Even by Heat fans. He was not on the books last year nor in the 2017-18 season according to Spotrac.

as is often the case, no one would admit their error.

Miami Heat 2017-18 Salary Cap

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I get probably not in you to admit a mistake....even one based on fact. Not opinion. But here goes.......Cavs had second highest odds to win the 2011 lottery with their own pick.

2011 Draft Lottery Odds | Minnesota Timberwolves

They did end up winning with the LAC pick, but saying they had a 1.7% to win is factually incorrect. they had 1.7% PLUS roughly a 20% chance with their own pick.

The odds on their own pick were just that.

How does that change the fact that the 1.7% pick cashed in?


There is no answer because it doesn’t.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes...was explained incorrectly. Even by Heat fans. He was not on the books last year nor in the 2017-18 season according to Spotrac.

as is often the case, no one would admit their error.

Miami Heat 2017-18 Salary Cap

Didn't say he was. I said that some of the decisions they made re: their roster were effected by him being on the books and trying to stay competitive and that he remained on the books for couple of seasons while everything was getting figured out with his health.

 

[dtgold88]

You just heard Turnup and I say that this roster wasn't a serious title contender, but would be a decent playoff team. If we had a healthy Dragic and Waiters, I feel very confident that we're in the playoffs, considering we missed it by a couple of games.

In the playoffs? I wont argue a decent chance. So they are what I suggested. A 6-7 seed at best. NBA Purgatory.

 

[dtgold88]

The odds on their own pick were just that.

How does that change the fact that the 1.7% pick cashed in?


There is no answer because it doesn’t.

But you said they stayed away because they only had a 1.7% chance to win the lottery. That is factually incorrect. You were wrong. Not in you to say so. Not surprised.

 

[podsox]

The Media giving reasons why kd left golden state is embarrassing. They are either full of shit or making kd look like a little bitch

 

[dtgold88]

Didn't say he was. I said that some of the decisions they made re: their roster were effected by him being on the books and trying to stay competitive and that he remained on the books for couple of seasons while everything was getting figured out with his health.

OK, but most said this pointing to Bosh being on the roster up until the end of the most recent season. Bosh has not been on the payroll since the 2016-17 season. How long can we allow The Great Riley to use this as an excuse? This will be year 3 without him and they are still no more than what seems like a middling playoff team with what appears to be no shot to scare anyone in the East.

and this is in a FA hotbed and a stud who wanted to play in Miami.

 

[WiggyRuss]

But you said they stayed away because they only had a 1.7% chance to win the lottery. That is factually incorrect. You were wrong. Not in you to say so. Not surprised.

they had the best chance in the NBA to win the lottery that year...in fact, i dont know if in the last 20 years anyone has had a better chance to win the lotto than the Cavs did that year. I am pretty sure that is the case.

 

[raptorlife4]

 

[WiggyRuss]

In the playoffs? I wont argue a decent chance. So they are what I suggested. A 6-7 seed at best. NBA Purgatory.

If Oladipo and KD were healthy they would be firmly expected at the 7 seed and a first round massacre....which WOULD be better than 2 of the last 3 years. lol

 

[bksballer89]

If Oladipo and KD were healthy they would be firmly expected at the 7 seed and a first round massacre....which WOULD be better than 2 of the last 3 years. lol

You're really overrating a Pacers team who are now without 3 of their top 5 or 6 players from the last 2 seasons.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Nobody has suggested the Heat would do anything, so it you two want to have a back and forth on it, go right ahead.

As far as the other stuff, the Cavs have been in the league since the 70-71 season. In those seasons, without James on the roster, they have made it past the first round exactly 3 times. None of those occurrences was anywhere near recent. So keep acting like they have some successful master plan, but fact shows they have been nothing but inept.

You are telling me real Cavs fans wouldn't be thrilled to be in the playoffs?

The sucking aka 'tanking', vast majority of the time doesn't lead to much. A top player like A.D. has played a total of 13 playoff games in 7 seasons, for example, before forcing his way off the team that drafted him.

Anyway, I admittedly don't have time to watch CBB, but was there ANY better shooter then Herro, who the Heat drafted with pick 13?

A. I would MUCH rather have the Cavs actually try and build towards something then be the 7th or 8th seed and have their ass kicked in the first round- thats not even a legitmate question

B. Gilbert bought the team in LeBrons 2nd year I believe-- and ever since then he has done what is smart for small market teams--- either try and win with every last dollar---- or take a step back, rent out out your cap space for more assets, and build.

C. Better shooter? Wyndlar is definitely a better shooter and the Cavs took him at 26

 

[trojanfan12]

OK, but most said this pointing to Bosh being on the roster up until the end of the most recent season. Bosh has not been on the payroll since the 2016-17 season.

I am not most and didn't say what you claimed.

How long can we allow The Great Riley to use this as an excuse?

I already answered this as well.

and this is in a FA hotbed and a stud who wanted to play in Miami.

To go after a top FA, you have to have cap space which they have not had except for maybe once or twice since Lebron left.

It does say something that Butler wanted to be traded there and apparently turned down a full max from Philly.