2016 Rosterbation

[TKellion]

I assume you are referring to my post? I did not say we SHOULD send Beede to the Reds, I said that is what it would cost.

So you actually think a collection of our scraps from the fridge will get Cueto and Chapman? Yeah, OK.

You must really think poorly of the Giants farm system even though half our starting lineup came from it lol.I am sure you were calling Panik and Duffy scrubs a couple years ago.I listed most of our top talent and you list them as scrubs.I am sure the conversation with the Reds would be interesting but if you dont like their demands you do not have to agree.I did suggest prospects that are blocked do to incumbents at the ML level.And I did not say flush the entire farm on a trade lol.I also said it was my fantasy and when was the last time anyone suggested anything in the way of a trade that actually happened?So you guys strap on a new depends and climb down off your pedestal.

 

[calsnowskier]

You must really think poorly of the Giants farm system even though half our starting lineup came from it lol.I am sure you were calling Panik and Duffy scrubs a couple years ago.I listed most of our top talent and you list them as scrubs.I am sure the conversation with the Reds would be interesting but if you dont like their demands you do not have to agree.I did suggest prospects that are blocked do to incumbents at the ML level.And I did not say flush the entire farm on a trade lol.I also said it was my fantasy and when was the last time anyone suggested anything in the way of a trade that actually happened?So you guys strap on a new depends and climb down off your pedestal.

Beltran cost us Wheeler.
Pence cost us Joseph.
Samardzjia cost the A's Russell.

You think we can get Cueto for less than Beede?

Lord, I hope you are right. But history shows this will not be the case. If the Giants are not willing to part with a TOP prospect, SOMEBODY will be, so they will win. Not a criticism of the Giants. Just the way it is.

 

[MarcoPolo]

You must really think poorly of the Giants farm system even though half our starting lineup came from it lol.I am sure you were calling Panik and Duffy scrubs a couple years ago.I listed most of our top talent and you list them as scrubs.I am sure the conversation with the Reds would be interesting but if you dont like their demands you do not have to agree.I did suggest prospects that are blocked do to incumbents at the ML level.And I did not say flush the entire farm on a trade lol.I also said it was my fantasy and when was the last time anyone suggested anything in the way of a trade that actually happened?So you guys strap on a new depends and climb down off your pedestal.

You seem to overreact when reading differing opinions lol. You may have a problem with basic comprehension as you jump to extreme conslusions not supported by the actual posts lol. You don't seem to agree that keeping top talent for 2016-2022 is the best move for this team lol. (Which is fine, differing opinions make the world go round.)

I think that having a deep set of good-to-great pitching prospects in AA and AAA (Beede, Blach, Mejia, Stratton, Blackburn, etc) means that over the next 1-3 years the Giants can fill between-season holes in the starting rotation and bullpen from within, for cheap, allowing them to buy OF talent on the FA market. That has been the Giants' recipe for success since 2010, and it seems to work pretty well.

And I'm not including the scrubs (Ryder Jones, Austin Slater, ) - those who are (at best) mediocre or have just a coupla pro years and have barely broken into AA (if that) as they would be toss-ins in a trade and not the main piece(s).

Sure, Duvall and Tomlinson and Williamson are tradeable - but there's no way all of them together are going to get either of Cueto or Chapman, let alone both. Not to mention that a closer is not the Giants #1 need (or even #3). Good prospects are a much better fuel for future success than half-year rentals - for the Giants. I'd rather see a very successful 2016-2020 than a competetive last 1/3rd of 2015 fueled by rentals.

EA Sports produces a decent MLB video game - go back to playing it and ignore the real world.

 

[TKellion]

Ooh the old video game comment lol your so smart

 

[MarcoPolo]

It is actually : you're so smart.

And thank you, I always like compliments

You might wish to directly address any of the facts/opinions/positions expressed by the posters on this thread, rather than just make unrelated, off-handed comments as you have been doing.

 

[msgkings322]

Ooh the old video game comment lol your so smart

You're kind of missing their point. It's perfectly reasonable to disagree with these guys (and myself) and say you think the Giants should trade some prospects this year to get better for 2015. But you aren't reasonable if you think anything less than our very best prospects can get a guy like Cueto (who we could really use) or Chapman (who we don't really need). I think the disagreement here is about that, not about trading to improve.

So I ask you, do you think it's worth trading 2 of Susac/Heston/Beede/Duffy to get Cueto? My opinion and that of others here is no, it isn't. And you have a right to think that lesser prospects will get that done, but you would be wrong.

To paraphrase Stalin: "Everyone has a right to be stupid. But Comrade Kellion abuses the privilege."

 

[tzill]

You seem to overreact when reading differing opinions lol. You may have a problem with basic comprehension as you jump to extreme conslusions not supported by the actual posts lol. You don't seem to agree that keeping top talent for 2016-2022 is the best move for this team lol. (Which is fine, differing opinions make the world go round.)

I think that having a deep set of good-to-great pitching prospects in AA and AAA (Beede, Blach, Mejia, Stratton, Blackburn, etc) means that over the next 1-3 years the Giants can fill between-season holes in the starting rotation and bullpen from within, for cheap, allowing them to buy OF talent on the FA market. That has been the Giants' recipe for success since 2010, and it seems to work pretty well.

And I'm not including the scrubs (Ryder Jones, Austin Slater, ) - those who are (at best) mediocre or have just a coupla pro years and have barely broken into AA (if that) as they would be toss-ins in a trade and not the main piece(s).

Sure, Duvall and Tomlinson and Williamson are tradeable - but there's no way all of them together are going to get either of Cueto or Chapman, let alone both. Not to mention that a closer is not the Giants #1 need (or even #3). Good prospects are a much better fuel for future success than half-year rentals - for the Giants. I'd rather see a very successful 2016-2020 than a competetive last 1/3rd of 2015 fueled by rentals.

EA Sports produces a decent MLB video game - go back to playing it and ignore the real world.

I don't know if the Giants think "closer is not the Giants #1 need." I fully expect them to get Papelbon.

 

[MarcoPolo]

To paraphrase Stalin: "Everyone has a right to be stupid. But Comrade Kellion abuses the privilege."

Some of my favorite 'stupid' quotes :

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
Albert Einstein

Harlan Ellison
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”
― Harlan Ellison

When my boss asked me who is the stupid one, me or him? I told him everyone knows he doesn't hire stupid people.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don't know if the Giants think "closer is not the Giants #1 need." I fully expect them to get Papelbon.

Wow. I would say that the Gaints' biggest problem so far has been scoring runs, not holding a lead in the 9th.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Yup, just looked it up. The Giants are tied for 26th in blown saves (with 4 other teams). The 30th-ranked team only has one less blown save than SF. It's not that I wouldn't like to have PapSmear, but I'd rather spend the money on hitting.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yup, just looked it up. The Giants are tied for 26th in blown saves (with 4 other teams). The 30th-ranked team only has one less blown save than SF. It's not that I wouldn't like to have PapSmear, but I'd rather spend the money on hitting.

I don't think money is the issue. Roster makeup is.

Hitting should be fine when we are more healthy. Aoki/Blanco/Pence is a very nice outfield. I would be OK with a Parra type of acquisition, but the prospect price is the key factor there. I don't want to spend more than what would be spent for a #4, and I think he is at the height of his value right now.

Getting a closer is important. FYWW is spent right now. We have potential arms on the farm, but they are untested. Give me a 9th inning guy so we can reduce the load on KCYa and make him a shut down 8th guy.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don't think money is the issue. Roster makeup is.

Hitting should be fine when we are more healthy. Aoki/Blanco/Pence is a very nice outfield. I would be OK with a Parra type of acquisition, but the prospect price is the key factor there. I don't want to spend more than what would be spent for a #4, and I think he is at the height of his value right now.

Getting a closer is important. FYWW is spent right now. We have potential arms on the farm, but they are untested. Give me a 9th inning guy so we can reduce the load on KCYa and make him a shut down 8th guy.

Money is always important. Pay PapSmear $12M and you can't spend it on a hitter (Paps should easily qualify/vest his 2016 option.)

But back to my point. SC has 4 blown saves this year. The team has more than 4 loses due to not being able to hit in the last MONTH. A closer is not the issue or the main problem. A lights-out closer is definitely nice to have - but a good hitter is even more important for the Giants right now. While a healthy Aoki and Pence will make a nice difference (as will Duffy at 3B instead of DPMcGehee) I think that hitting is a larger concern than the closer. Heck, starting pitching is a larger concern than who is the closer.

It really doesn't matter how good your closer is if you aren't ahead after the bottom of the 9th.

 

[calsnowskier]

Where will you play this new hitter? Would you expect to get an OF bat that is better than Blanco? Blanco is having an AWESOME year with the bat. He has really bonded with Aoki and changed his approach due to Aoki.

You mention the past month, well that is when we have been down 2 starting OFers. One of them is back, and the other is due back shortly after the ASB.

 

[BroncoInCALI]

I would think the Giants have shown us their strategy the last few years....heck, last year at this time they were struggling, coming off a horrible June, and Sabean said something like "We are not going to make any moves just to make moves." I fully expect them to continue that way this year and in the future. They have built a nice homegrown core, that has produced championships, while also repairing a farm system that was struggling to produce Major League talent not too long ago. I am good with that.....let's get healthy, add a couple small pieces and see what happens this year.

 

[calsnowskier]

If they get a nice #4 OFer or a utility infielder I will be happy.

OR...

If they are able to get a Cueto, Hamels or Price (or other such pitcher that I am not thinking about) for something other than Beede, I am good.

Chapman is the only reliever I am will to pay top-value for, but I am not sure we can get him for something other than Beede. I think Paps and KRod are affordable, but are they enough of a step up? Paps has 13M for '16, and KRod is on the books for 7.5M in '16 with a 6/2 option for '17.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Where will you play this new hitter? Would you expect to get an OF bat that is better than Blanco? Blanco is having an AWESOME year with the bat. He has really bonded with Aoki and changed his approach due to Aoki.

You mention the past month, well that is when we have been down 2 starting OFers. One of them is back, and the other is due back shortly after the ASB.

I guess that I just don't have the confidence that Blanco will be able to sustain his torrid offensive turn-around of this season's 200 PAs. Blanco with a BABIP of .373, 12th in the majors ?? Forgive my pessimism, but that ain't gonna last.

Oops, edit: forgot to answer part of the question - said hitter would play the bench: pinch hitter or late game double-swith replacement when more offense is needed. This team has no threat on the bench. A 6th or 7th inning hit with 2 on is what has been missing in a lot of games the last 2 months.

 

[calsnowskier]

Oops, edit: forgot to answer part of the question - said hitter would play the bench: pinch hitter or late game double-swith replacement when more offense is needed. This team has no threat on the bench. A 6th or 7th inning hit with 2 on is what has been missing in a lot of games the last 2 months.

Sounds like we are on the same page than.

Damn it! I hate agreement...

 

[tzill]

Wow. I would say that the Gaints' biggest problem so far has been scoring runs, not holding a lead in the 9th.

I would be inclined to agree, but I think the problem that they can most economically address is the bullpen. It suddenly got very old and very injured.

 

[ColinCoby]

Most of you are arguing for patience, and that this is not the time to go for broke and grab a Chapman, Hamels, etc. Makes sense to me.

I wonder though: how much does winning three of the last five years influence that conclusion? The argument could be made that this roster, with its excellence defense and improved hitting, could beat anyone with another great starter to go with Bum. With Timmeh and Hud coming off the books, why not grab Hamels while you can?

If we don't win the whole thing last year, I think I might be swayed into joining the "this team is ready to win now/the minor leaguers might never perform at the MLB level" camp.

 

[calsnowskier]

Most of you are arguing for patience, and that this is not the time to go for broke and grab a Chapman, Hamels, etc. Makes sense to me.

I wonder though: how much does winning three of the last five years influence that conclusion? The argument could be made that this roster, with its excellence defense and improved hitting, could beat anyone with another great starter to go with Bum. With Timmeh and Hud coming off the books, why not grab Hamels while you can?

If we don't win the whole thing last year, I think I might be swayed into joining the "this team is ready to win now/the minor leaguers might never perform at the MLB level" camp.

Sure. But we DID win last year. And we DID win in '12. And we DID win in '10.

Our offense is young, Bum is young, Cain is young enough and we have Strtton and Beede ready to graduate next year with a whole slew of other guys who may be able to fill in as #3/#4/#5s to go along with them. Why blow up the farm and blow up the steady, consistent trend we have now for a long-shot one-year grab?

I am good with going after the middle-to upper trade targets. But going for the monsters doesn't make a lot of sense to me.