2015 Pirates

[Darkstone42]

If anyone was willing to take Tabata for anything it is a win for NH.

As for the Marlins, unfortunately they are looking for a left handed bat.

Yeah, that contract was a mistake. Not having it on the books would give us a little more financial flexibility.

Although this offseason seems to indicate money is at least a little less of an object than it's been in the past.

 

[thedddd]

Yeah, that contract was a mistake. Not having it on the books would give us a little more financial flexibility.

Although this offseason seems to indicate money is at least a little less of an object than it's been in the past.

Very true it is nice to see that be the case. Also when you are selling tickets and winning games there really isn't much justification to state you don't have extra money to spend.

 

[element1286]

He's still guaranteed 9 million over the next two years, can't see any team trading for him until next offseason at the earliest. And even then, that is only if he somehow played, and played well this season. And I have no interest in seeing him play at all for the Pirates anymore.

 

[sychmd]

He's still guaranteed 9 million over the next two years, can't see any team trading for him until next offseason at the earliest. And even then, that is only if he somehow played, and played well this season. And I have no interest in seeing him play at all for the Pirates anymore.

he will play at AAA with lambo and rojas and see if he can catch the eye of someone.
hopefully he has some motivation still.
signing that big contract so early (and i wasn't that angry about it at the time), then getting past up by marte and polanco and snider may have pushed him toward lazy instead of being more determined to prove his worth and sign the bigger contract next.

we will see what shape he comes to camp with and what intensity and start he has.
would be nice to have a chip to offer up when those first injuries hit contenders in early may.

 

[Darkstone42]

he will play at AAA with lambo and rojas and see if he can catch the eye of someone.
hopefully he has some motivation still.
signing that big contract so early (and i wasn't that angry about it at the time), then getting past up by marte and polanco and snider may have pushed him toward lazy instead of being more determined to prove his worth and sign the bigger contract next.

we will see what shape he comes to camp with and what intensity and start he has.
would be nice to have a chip to offer up when those first injuries hit contenders in early may.

There are a few teams who have very little outfield depth, and while Tabata is at best our fifth best outfield option, we are deep at the position, and he could have more value to someone else than he does to us. At least, that's the hope.

 

[Darkstone42]

Chad Billingsley has apparently received a number of offers. I think he would be a good target, ground ball guy who's had success in the past, but is coming off an injury which will drive his price down. Since Morton's not a sure thing to start the season (or to finish it), Burnett is coming off an injury-troubled season, and we're not sure how much we can trust Locke and Worley, with Taillon certainly not ready yet and Kingham unlikely to be, I think one more solid back-end starter would be a good addition. I kind of hope we're one of the teams in on him.

 

[thecrow124]

Chad Billingsley has apparently received a number of offers. I think he would be a good target, ground ball guy who's had success in the past, but is coming off an injury which will drive his price down. Since Morton's not a sure thing to start the season (or to finish it), Burnett is coming off an injury-troubled season, and we're not sure how much we can trust Locke and Worley, with Taillon certainly not ready yet and Kingham unlikely to be, I think one more solid back-end starter would be a good addition. I kind of hope we're one of the teams in on him.

I would love to add Billingsley, but I also believe signing him would mean that we would not sign Kang and we would then be stuck with Sean Rodriguez as our utility guy. I am not entirely sure that I like that scenario.

I do like the idea of added pitching depth, just not at the expense of not being able to sign Kang. I think that he is going to be better than a lot of other people think. Not from any knowledge I have of him, just from the fact that every "big" far Easterner that has been signed have all been downplayed, but then their performance has far exceeded what we were led to believe their abilities were.

 

[Darkstone42]

I would love to add Billingsley, but I also believe signing him would mean that we would not sign Kang and we would then be stuck with Sean Rodriguez as our utility guy. I am not entirely sure that I like that scenario.

I do like the idea of added pitching depth, just not at the expense of not being able to sign Kang. I think that he is going to be better than a lot of other people think. Not from any knowledge I have of him, just from the fact that every "big" far Easterner that has been signed have all been downplayed, but then their performance has far exceeded what we were led to believe their abilities were.

Yeah, if signing Billingsley would be at the expense of Kang, I agree, I would rather have Kang. We're much deeper with viable options at starting pitcher than at utility infield/bench bat. But if we could do both, it would be a really good move, especially if Billingsley finds his 2013 form. That version of Billingsley would likely be our third best pitcher.

 

[thedddd]

Sad thing is I wonder if they could do both if they didn't sign Corey Hart?

 

[Darkstone42]

Nero anticipates Kang and the Pirates reaching a deal next week.

 

[steelparrot]

Pirates Nearing Four-Year Deal With Jung-ho Kang ? MLB Trade Rumors

Yeppers, i bet its close to 4/20 but like half bonuses.




These international posting free agents can get clauses in there contracts like 'Cant be offered arbitration after year 4' cant they?

 

[thecrow124]

Pirates Nearing Four-Year Deal With Jung-ho Kang ? MLB Trade Rumors

Yeppers, i bet its close to 4/20 but like half bonuses.




These international posting free agents can get clauses in there contracts like 'Cant be offered arbitration after year 4' cant they?

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but since he is signing a free agent contract i would guess that it can pretty much say whatever they agree on. I don't believe the Pirates would even require his services past 4 years anyway, so I wouldn't think that would be much of an issue.

 

[Darkstone42]

Jim Bowden is reporting a done deal between Kang and the Bucs, 4 years plus a fifth year option, $16 million (I assume excluding the option).

Since Kang would only have to put up about a win a year in production, the money is safe for a bench bat, with big value upside if he proves to be an average to good Major League regular.

 

[Darkstone42]

Well, the Bucs should have a depth advantage. According to Jeff Sullivan's extremely rough analysis, they have the deepest team in the National League.

A Quick Attempted Measure of Team Depth | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[element1286]

Nice to have the depth, addition of Kang and Rodriguez helps that number. Steamer likes Lambo as well.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think the Pirates' 40-man payroll is sitting at roughly $94 million with the Kang signing. Coonelly said it could top $100 million by the end, but will they reach that far before the season, or leave some money to play with under that cap? If they decide to push it, Billingsley would make sense. I expect him to get something between $5-10 million per year for either one or two years, depending on what the market thinks of his health. It might not be completely unreasonable.

In the pipe dream line of thinking, apparently the Diamondbacks are in on Shields, which likely suggests it won't necessarily take a $100 million contract to sign him. I still think he's going to get more than he'll be worth, but given this development, it couldn't hurt to ask.

 

[element1286]

If I'm Billingsley, I'm not sure I sign with a club that has a crowded rotation, even if they have a history or helping guys who were previously struggling.

 

[Illinest]

The Pirates have enough candidates for the rotation. What they need is another TOR arm. I don't expect them to be in on Shields, so in all likelihood our only chance to add a quality starter to the rotation is if we make a mid-season trade.

I'm not sold on Kang but I like the idea, and I think you could fairly say that this is a very deep roster on the position-player side.
There have been years in the recent past where we'd be arguing about whether Tabata has it in him to finally earn his spot in the corner outfield. We'd be arguing about that not because of any legitimate reason to believe in him, but because we knew that he was the only option. but this year he's most likely not even going to be on the major league roster to start the season.

In fact this is the first year that I can remember where an injury to any one position player - even McCutchen - can probably be dealt with. An outfield of Marte/Polanco/Snider isn't necessarily a bad outfield. The only position that seems a little bit too thin to me is Catcher, and even there you've got a few long-shot contributor possibilities like Tony Sanchez and Argenis Diaz.

The bullpen has enough interesting arms. Even if a few guys under-perform there's probably enough talent in there to make it work. A mid-season trade could fix any bullpen issues pretty quickly if we had a problem.

The only thing that I'm not satisfied about is the top of the rotation - which is arguably the most important thing in the playoffs. I'm happy to have re-signed Liriano but there's still some risk with him. He's not a true ace. Cole probably has it in him to be a true ace, but he needs to start pitching like it. Until then Cole is just a solid MOR kind of guy. Everyone else has the ceiling of a MOR or BOR arm. Taillon and Glasnow are still too far away. Kingham is probably a MOR arm.

If Cliff Lee has a good first half and if we can work out a deal for him, then I'd be pretty excited about our chances.

 

[Darkstone42]

The Pirates have enough candidates for the rotation. What they need is another TOR arm. I don't expect them to be in on Shields, so in all likelihood our only chance to add a quality starter to the rotation is if we make a mid-season trade.

I'm not sold on Kang but I like the idea, and I think you could fairly say that this is a very deep roster on the position-player side.
There have been years in the recent past where we'd be arguing about whether Tabata has it in him to finally earn his spot in the corner outfield. We'd be arguing about that not because of any legitimate reason to believe in him, but because we knew that he was the only option. but this year he's most likely not even going to be on the major league roster to start the season.

In fact this is the first year that I can remember where an injury to any one position player - even McCutchen - can probably be dealt with. An outfield of Marte/Polanco/Snider isn't necessarily a bad outfield. The only position that seems a little bit too thin to me is Catcher, and even there you've got a few long-shot contributor possibilities like Tony Sanchez and Argenis Diaz.

The bullpen has enough interesting arms. Even if a few guys under-perform there's probably enough talent in there to make it work. A mid-season trade could fix any bullpen issues pretty quickly if we had a problem.

The only thing that I'm not satisfied about is the top of the rotation - which is arguably the most important thing in the playoffs. I'm happy to have re-signed Liriano but there's still some risk with him. He's not a true ace. Cole probably has it in him to be a true ace, but he needs to start pitching like it. Until then Cole is just a solid MOR kind of guy. Everyone else has the ceiling of a MOR or BOR arm. Taillon and Glasnow are still too far away. Kingham is probably a MOR arm.

If Cliff Lee has a good first half and if we can work out a deal for him, then I'd be pretty excited about our chances.

Agreed on Lee. No reason to give up assets and pay that money now with his health such a big question mark, but if he does appear to be healthy, he'd be a good add who won't require a long-term commitment, and shouldn't cost much in terms of prospects relative to the other top starters on the trade market.

Although, if we think he's healthy, he should still be really good (he pitched well last year until he went on the DL and Steamer loves him), so it might be worth talking to the Phillies now to see if the cost in prospects is a bit lower due to the health question marks.

That vesting option should keep the price down as well.

 

[element1286]

I would agree, the teams seems solid all around, but the top of the rotation is weak for a contender. It would be tremendous if Cole took the next step this year, and/or Taillon became a solid #3 by the end of the season.