2013 Offseason Player Transaction Thread

[scotsman1948]

Sunk costs buddy. Learn about them.

Know all about them but just because you throw a term around doesn't mean that they are going to do it. I think it is safe to assume that neither Wash or MY are going anywhere for at least this coming season

 

[scotsman1948]

As Romeo said ... it's sunk cost. You are going to pay it whether he plays or not ... so might as well let someone you are paying the minimum play instead of him at least that is an investment for the future. Unlikely an Olt is going to have a -2.4WAR for the season DHing and splitting time at 1b and 3b.

TEX paid Rodriguez $10mil a year through 2010 (up to the instant Feliz K'd him in the ALCS) ... so what's the difference? Young on the roster isn't any more productive for his salary than Rodriguez was those years either.

At the end of the year MY is gone ... so might as well not waste time and let him get a year jump on finding another job.

It's business.

Theygot something in return for Rodriguez so they thought it was worth it and remember we're talking Hicks who had no baseball sense and now we're talking Nolan and JD. I understand that most on this board hate MY with a huge passion but they are not going to eat 16M no matter how hard you pray they do.

 

[romeo212000]

Theygot something in return for Rodriguez so they thought it was worth it and remember we're talking Hicks who had no baseball sense and now we're talking Nolan and JD. I understand that most on this board hate MY with a huge passion but they are not going to eat 16M no matter how hard you pray they do.

Once again, nobody hates MY. We just recognize what a detriment he is to this team. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it true.

 

[romeo212000]

Know all about them but just because you throw a term around doesn't mean that they are going to do it. I think it is safe to assume that neither Wash or MY are going anywhere for at least this coming season

It's simply an applicable concept to this scenario and it holds quite true. MY cost this team wins this season. He cost this team more wins than the rest of the entire team combined. You're going to be paying his 16m salary either way so it doesn't make sense to keep a player around who is costing the team wins. You've made the investment either way. It's smarter to be paying that money to not have him costing your team wins than paying him and having him cost you wins.

 

[scotsman1948]

It's simply an applicable concept to this scenario and it holds quite true. MY cost this team wins this season. He cost this team more wins than the rest of the entire team combined. You're going to be paying his 16m salary either way so it doesn't make sense to keep a player around who is costing the team wins. You've made the investment either way. It's smarter to be paying that money to not have him costing your team wins than paying him and having him cost you wins.

if the Rangers can figure how to get something tangible out of it then they might do it but unlike the Rodriquez trade where they got Soriano & Arias and ate 66M of his contract there are no tangible gains in what you're proposing. your supposition that removing him from the roster will result in additional wins has no basis. do i believe that he will do better or worse next season? i have no way of knowing and neither do you.

i do believe that the rangers will look for someone(s) to cover the infield positions because i don't see them bring up Profar or Olt until some time after the trade deadline or even before September callups and forego his limitations reducing him to the DH role only. that is unless they can find some other team that will accept him in trade for scraps and the Rangers eat some portion of the 16M (i would say it would have to be around 10-12M) and the big block to that is MY has 10 and 5 rights and a limiting no-trade clause so he can limit who he can be traded to.

 

[romeo212000]

if the Rangers can figure how to get something tangible out of it then they might do it but unlike the Rodriquez trade where they got Soriano & Arias and ate 66M of his contract there are no tangible gains in what you're proposing. your supposition that removing him from the roster will result in additional wins has no basis. do i believe that he will do better or worse next season? i have no way of knowing.

i do believe that the rangers will look for someone(s) to cover the infield positions and forego his limitations reducing him to the DH role only. that is unless they can find some other team that will accept him in trade for scraps and the Rangers eat some portion of the 16M (i would say it would have to be around 10-12M) and the big block to that is MY has 10 and 5 rights and a limiting no-trade clause so he can limit who he can be traded to.

Actually it does have a basis. The numbers show the team wins less with him in the lineup. Don't tell me it has no basis. That's bull crap. Whether you don't buy into the numbers or just choose to stick your head in the sand is insignificant. But my claims to have basis.

 

[scotsman1948]

Actually it does have a basis. The numbers show the team wins less with him in the lineup. Don't tell me it has no basis. That's bull crap. Whether you don't buy into the numbers or just choose to stick your head in the sand is insignificant. But my claims to have basis.

are you as concerned with the fact that Kinsler WAR dropped in 2012 to 2.0 from 7.1 in 2011?

 

[romeo212000]

I'm well aware that Ian had an all around down season, but Ian still had a positive 2.0 WAR and at 6m per WAR (which is the general consensus of cost/WAR) he still essentially paid the club back for his 2.0 WAR. MY was at -2.7 WAR which obviously does not cover his bloated salary this year.

In other words. Ian still provided the minimum value his salary dictated he should. MY essentially owes the rangers 24 million dollars for his play this last season.

 

[Windingmywatch]

They got something in return for Rodriguez so they thought it was worth it and remember we're talking Hicks who had no baseball sense and now we're talking Nolan and JD. I understand that most on this board hate MY with a huge passion but they are not going to eat 16M no matter how hard you pray they do.

Tell you what ... MY made $16mil in 2012 putting up numbers cataloged by Rich Durrett:

"Among players with at least 600 at-bats, only four players had a lower OBP than Young. He had a .370 slugging percentage. Only one player with more than 600 at-bats (Dustin Ackley) had a lower slugging percentage. Young's WAR number, a stat that you can see now on ESPN.com's regular stat page for each player, was -2.4."

Way I figure it ... Young owes TEX a good part of that $16mil from 2012 enough to buy out his 2013 contract.

I don't hate MY ... pretty nice guy it appears ... but he absolutely sucks as a MLB player.

With his -2.4WAR that means he was less productive than 2 and a half replacement players. Replacement players you can get for $490k.

Since TEX will pay the $16mil anyway ... they can just release Young and replace him on the roster with a rotation of 2 1/2 replacement players. Bet that it will be easy to find one capable of performing at the replacement rate ... which is 2 1/2 times better than Young.

I would give him the opportunity to retire in the off season ... but no way I bring him to camp.

 

[scotsman1948]

Tell you what ... MY made $16mil in 2012 putting up numbers cataloged by Rich Durrett:

"Among players with at least 600 at-bats, only four players had a lower OBP than Young. He had a .370 slugging percentage. Only one player with more than 600 at-bats (Dustin Ackley) had a lower slugging percentage. Young's WAR number, a stat that you can see now on ESPN.com's regular stat page for each player, was -2.4."

Way I figure it ... Young owes TEX a good part of that $16mil from 2012 enough to buy out his 2013 contract.

I don't hate MY ... pretty nice guy it appears ... but he absolutely sucks as a MLB player.

With his -2.4WAR that means he was less productive than 2 and a half replacement players. Replacement players you can get for $490k.

Since TEX will pay the $16mil anyway ... they can just release Young and replace him on the roster with a rotation of 2 1/2 replacement players. Bet that it will be easy to find one capable of performing at the replacement rate ... which is 2 1/2 times better than Young.

I would give him the opportunity to retire in the off season ... but no way I bring him to camp.

i'm not arguing with you about his contribution this last season, what i'm arguing with you and romeo and others about is this belief by all of you that the Rangers would simply release him and the 16M they owe him for next season. maybe if it were Hicks you might have seen it but Nolan isn't going to do it. as Nolan said MY will be with the team probably in a reduced role but he will be with the team

 

[romeo212000]

i'm not arguing with you about his contribution this last season, what i'm arguing with you and romeo and others about is this belief by all of you that the Rangers would simply release him and the 16M they owe him for next season. maybe if it were Hicks you might have seen it but Nolan isn't going to do it. as Nolan said MY will be with the team probably in a reduced role but he will be with the team

Dude, your reading comprehension has got to improve. Nobody is saying the rangers will release him outright this next season. We're saying from a purely logical and analytical standpoint they should.

And it's funny you bring up Hicks since its his bloated contracts (including this one) that have given and are still giving the rangers so much grief.

 

[Windingmywatch]

i'm not arguing with you about his contribution this last season, what i'm arguing with you and romeo and others about is this belief by all of you that the Rangers would simply release him and the 16M they owe him for next season. maybe if it were Hicks you might have seen it but Nolan isn't going to do it. as Nolan said MY will be with the team probably in a reduced role but he will be with the team

"in a reduced role" ...

What sort of reduced role? A Brandon Snyder/Alberto Gonzalez type reduced role? A Mike Olt/Jurickson Profar reduced role?

What sort of reduced role?

Despite their limited role in 2012 ... every one of those guys had a higher 2012 WAR than Young.

Talk about a disruption in the clubhouse ... imagine TEX making productive players sit and put aside wins in order to give playing time to a spare with a $16mil contract in the last year of his career.

TEX may bring him back in a reduced capacity ... but it doesn't contribute to winning.

 

[scotsman1948]

"in a reduced role" ...

What sort of reduced role? A Brandon Snyder/Alberto Gonzalez type reduced role? A Mike Olt/Jurickson Profar reduced role?

What sort of reduced role?

Despite their limited role in 2012 ... every one of those guys had a higher 2012 WAR than Young.

Talk about a disruption in the clubhouse ... imagine TEX making productive players sit and put aside wins in order to give playing time to a spare with a $16mil contract in the last year of his career.

TEX may bring him back in a reduced capacity ... but it doesn't contribute to winning.

Haveyou got an inside source in the locker room because all you hear from the other players is how much he means to the team. The ownership seems to love him and we know how Wash feels so it seems that only a few fans seem to think that he needs to go.

In the end, it appears right now that the team will go into the season with Wash as the manager and MY on the roster, so we'll just have to deal with even if we don't like either choice

 

[romeo212000]

Actually, there are a lot of fans that want both wash and FACE gone.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

I recognize that Wash has Limitations as a Manager. But as a Rangers Fan I want the Team to Bounce back in 2013 and get back to the the World Series and Win it this time. If that happens Wash will get a extended Contract. If Wash is gone in the next year it means that the Rangers had a Bad Season. No Ranger Fan wants to see that Happen.

 

[slugger82685]

I recognize that Wash has Limitations as a Manager. But as a Rangers Fan I want the Team to Bounce back in 2013 and get back to the the World Series and Win it this time. If that happens Wash will get a extended Contract. If Wash is gone in the next year it means that the Rangers had a Bad Season. No Ranger Fan wants to see that Happen.

unless they add a true ace this offseason, 2013 is going to be a transitional year for them....by losing run production of Hamilton and Napoli and not being able to make up for it by adding an ace I just dont see how they will be as competitive and so I think you see a lot more playing time for Profar and Olt because if both of those guys are still with the organization come 2013 then moves were not made to improve this team in the offseason.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

Olt & Profar are the Big Keys to this coming season. If both those Guys are the Real Deal the Rangers will score more runs maybe then People think. Will also see if JD has any big trades in mind and also who the Rangers might get in the Free Agent Market. But True in 2013 The Rangers are Going to be a Different Team then they have been the Last 3 Years. Even the Bullpen will be Re Worked.

 

[romeo212000]

unless they add a true ace this offseason, 2013 is going to be a transitional year for them....by losing run production of Hamilton and Napoli and not being able to make up for it by adding an ace I just dont see how they will be as competitive and so I think you see a lot more playing time for Profar and Olt because if both of those guys are still with the organization come 2013 then moves were not made to improve this team in the offseason.

Olt & Profar are the Big Keys to this coming season. If both those Guys are the Real Deal the Rangers will score more runs maybe then People think. Will also see if JD has any big trades in mind and also who the Rangers might get in the Free Agent Market. But True in 2013 The Rangers are Going to be a Different Team then they have been the Last 3 Years. Even the Bullpen will be Re Worked.

Both very true.

 

[romeo212000]

I recognize that Wash has Limitations as a Manager. But as a Rangers Fan I want the Team to Bounce back in 2013 and get back to the the World Series and Win it this time. If that happens Wash will get a extended Contract. If Wash is gone in the next year it means that the Rangers had a Bad Season. No Ranger Fan wants to see that Happen.

I'm ready to accept that unless JD makes at least one if not two huge moves this next season will be a transitional season for the rangers. I'm excited because that actually means we may get to see some young talent have a chance to play with this team. If that means they don't make it to the playoffs next year then so be it. And if wash gets let go after this season or midway through as a result, well I just call that an early Christmas present.

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

This "thought/idea" makes me feel something in my pants....

Baseball Time in Arlington: A Texas Rangers Blog - Forum - ElvisAndrus*Hypotheticals

From all reports, albeit extremely early, it sounds like there are 4 options for Elvis.
1. Extend
2. Let the current contract run out/trade next year.
3. Trade for David Price
4. Trade for Justin Upton

Lets say an 8 year $150 mil deal gets the extension done.
Elvis, Perez and Buckel (maybe 1 or 2 lower prospects) gets Price.
Elvis, Olt and 1-2 lower prospects get Upton/slugger.

Which would you do?

What if you trade for Price and also sign Greinke. Would we become WS favorites next year regardless of lineup?

Or would a Upton and Greinke package be more stable?

I was originally on the extend Elvis train but I'm slowly coming to the idea of trading him. But I want Price, not Upton. Upton scares the hell out of me. Plus I think we can get a decent slugger for a package based around Olt. If we could sign Ortiz for a 2 year deal (which is what he wants) and sign Greinke, I really think we would be fine for the next couple years while our prospects get seasoned up. Ian will hopefully return to the norm and the offset of Josh leaving/Young's role being diminished (traded?) coupled with Ortiz would hopefully stabilize the lineup. Would the owners spend a little extra next year before the tv contract starts? Hopefully.

Our core would be based on a pitching staff that would feature Price, Darvish, Greinke, Harrison, Holland for at least 2 years unless Harrison extends and/or Harry/Holland could be trade bait. Colby will be back for the playoffs too, so the options are there. If the mantra "pitching wins championships" holds true, we would be a force.

Forgive me for the spelling, punctuation, etc. I was bored at work and did this from my phone.

Darvish.
Price.
Greinke.
Harrison.
Holland.

Colby back mid-season.

For that scenario....I would trade Elvis. And on that note, I would be "ok" with signing Greinke.