2013 Offseason Player Transaction Thread

[scotsman1948]

The money is lost either way. It's the basic economic principle of sunk costs. If he's costing you wins and you've already lost the money it makes no sense to keep playing him just because you'll lose that money. You've already lost it and its costing you wins. You're better of discounting that cost and trying to replace those wins.

It's not our 16M so it is easy for us to quickly write it off and say move on. And to say it cost us wins is not really a fact that can be proved. We can say IF he hadn't done that or he hasn't hit into that DP and so-and-so had been in that spot things would have been different but all that is nothing but wishful thinking. We have no way of knowing.

I would rather have seen us win 3 to 5 more games too but the blame for not doing that does not lie on one player's shoulders or even totally on the manager's either. This team failure lies on just about everyone for not performing

 

[romeo212000]

WAR is not 100% reliable but is pretty darn good at showing a players value with regard to wins. FACE contributed negative wins according to that. That means he costed this team games.

 

[scotsman1948]

It's a problem as old as sports. Players get older and need to move over and let the younger guys or someone else move in. The problem is that sometimes the older guy can't see it and in MY's case I think he's locked in on 3,000 hits. It will be interesting to see how it's handled next year.

They'Ge already said his role will reduced but I think that is in the onfield arrest but we can expect that he will see at least 100-120 games at DH no matter how hard we wish different

 

[scotsman1948]

WAR is not 100% reliable but is pretty darn good at showing a players value with regard to wins. FACE contributed negative wins according to that. That means he costed this team games.

WAR is a hypothetical number that assumes that another player would have done different.you can not assume that another player would have made the play differently or would have gotten a hit during a certain at bat

 

[romeo212000]

WAR is a hypothetical number that assumes that another player would have done different.you can not assume that another player would have made the play differently or would have gotten a hit during a certain at bat

It calculates their entire contributions against a "replacement player" basically meaning what is determined to be an average player at that position. It doesn't assume player x would've done better than player y. The game of baseball is all about statistics and averages and turning those numbers into something meaningful. WAR is a pretty good stat to measure a player by and FACE failed miserably.

 

[jta4437]

Point is you're paying MY 16 million no matter what, do you allow him to make 16 million and drag the team further down, diminish ticket sales due to a inferior product

or do you pay him and a replacement 17 million and get a superior product that wins more games and draws more fans

Trust me, it won't be expensive to replace Young's production, how much does Olt or Profar make???

 

[Windingmywatch]

WAR is not 100% reliable but is pretty darn good at showing a players value with regard to wins. FACE contributed negative wins according to that. That means he costed this team games.

WAR--Batters
6.7 Beltre
3.5 Andrus
3.4 Hamilton
3.2 Murphy
2.8 Gentry
2.0 Kinsler
1.4 Napoli
0.2 Moreland
0.1 Cruz, Snyder
0.0 Adams, Darvish, Feldman, Feliz, A. Gonzalez, Holland, Lowe, Nathan, Ogando, Ross, Scheppers, Uehara
-0.1 Hernandez
-0.2 Harrison
-0.2 Martin
-0.2 Olt
-0.2 Profar
-0.3 Martinez
-0.6 Soto
-0.7 the player whose name shall never mentioned again

and last on the list ... lower by -1.7 than every single position player and pitcher who appeared for TEX in 2012 is ...

-2.4 Young (no longer the Face of the Franchise ... he is the Boob of the Franchise)

The total negative WAR by every other position player with a negative WAR is only -2.3 so MY exceeded the negative total of everyone else on the roster.

Ref: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/2012.shtml

 

[slugger82685]

some Rangers notes:

Rangers Notes: Hamilton, Greinke, Napoli, Adams
By Mark Polishuk [October 11 at 6:53pm CST]
As the Rangers are still recovering from their disappointing finish to 2012, MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan discussed a number of offseason possibilities for the club as part of a reader mailbag piece. Some of the hot stove highlights...

Josh Hamilton will get at least one big-money, long-term offer this winter, leaving little chance that the Rangers would be able to sign him for any kind of relative discount, Hamilton believes. Rangers GM Jon Daniels said earlier this week that his team will wait to see what contract offers Hamilton receives from other clubs before making their own pitch to the free agent outfielder.
Zack Greinke will be a top target for the Rangers this winter. "The Rangers made a strong push for him at the trade deadline...and this is still an organization that wants to build around pitching. That's where the club wants to spend its money," Sullivan writes.
The Rangers are "unsure" about making a qualifying offer to pending free agent Mike Napoli since if he accepted, Texas would owe the catcher approximately $13.35MM for the 2013 season. If the Rangers didn't issue a qualifying offer and Napoli signed elsewhere, however, then the Rangers wouldn't receive any draft pick compensation. Sullivan argues that Napoli could accept the qualifying offer in the wake of his somewhat disappointing 2012 season and look to rebound in 2013 to set himself up for a larger long-term deal with Texas or another club.
Though Mike Adams has been diagnosed with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome, Sullivan thinks the 34-year-old reliever could still find a multiyear deal as a free agent. The Rangers would happily take Adams back on a one-year deal.
Sullivan doesn't think Jacoby Ellsbury is a good fit in Texas and doesn't think the Rangers should or would trade Derek Holland or Elvis Andrus in exchange for the Red Sox center fielder. "[Nelson] Cruz for Ellsbury, maybe. But it would seem more logical to take a chance on Leonys Martin than give up substantial talent for an injury-prone outfielder who can walk after next season," opines Sullivan.
Despite the numerous rumors about a Justin Upton trade, Sullivan isn't sure he's a fit for the Rangers since Cruz is already set at right field. Center field would be the only question mark for Texas next season if Hamilton leaves, as the Rangers have Cruz in right and David Murphy in left.
Michael Young could receive some trade interest this winter from "a team in need of veteran leadership, as well as somebody who can play second base." Young hit .277/.312/.370 in 651 plate appearances last season, his lowest career OPS for a full campaign. Young turns 36 this month and is set to earn $16MM in 2013, the final year of his contract. He also has no-trade protection as a 10-and-5 player, adding another wrinkle to any possible trade talks.

-MLBTR

 

[romeo212000]

I'm really not sure how I feel about going hard after greinke. With the amount of offense leaving pitching makes sense and our rotation is already depleted with no Lewis or Feliz. I see ogando getting another shot at the rotation (deservedly so) but we need something more sure to pair with Darvish so Greinke could make sense but will cost money and our payroll is already around 125m next year I think. Harrison is a solid #3 and were still not sure what holland is. We may have to concede a bit of a resetting year, but if anybody can make some magic happen its JD. I could see Cruz or Murphy being traded.

 

[scotsman1948]

I'm really not sure how I feel about going hard after greinke. With the amount of offense leaving pitching makes sense and our rotation is already depleted with no Lewis or Feliz. I see ogando getting another shot at the rotation (deservedly so) but we need something more sure to pair with Darvish so Greinke could make sense but will cost money and our payroll is already around 125m next year I think. Harrison is a solid #3 and were still not sure what holland is. We may have to concede a bit of a resetting year, but if anybody can make some magic happen its JD. I could see Cruz or Murphy being traded.

with no Feliz until possibly August and the possible loss of Adams, i can't see the Rangers further weakening the bullpen by moving Ogando to the rotation

 

[jta4437]

with no Feliz until possibly August and the possible loss of Adams, i can't see the Rangers further weakening the bullpen by moving Ogando to the rotation

Any smart team would weaken the bullpen to strengthen the rotation

THAT said, Ogando STILL needs a 3rd pitch

Even in the bullpen, by the end of the year, people had figured him out

 

[Senator_fan]

they have some thump your outfield doesn't

It's a start. My outfield lowers ERA's so you need less thump.

 

[Windingmywatch]

some Rangers notes:



-MLBTR

From TR's piece: "Michael Young could receive some trade interest this winter from "a team in need of veteran leadership, as well as somebody who can play second base."

Veteran leadership that failed two years in a row? Not sure he's got anything to put on his CV about leadership ... unless it is about how he hogged a spot in the lineup every night and in return delivered a -2.4WAR.

As for "somebody who can play second base" ... I think an Alberto Gonzalez type would be cheaper and get you a higher WAR.

What lunatic team would want Young? TR is as self-serving as EG is when it comes to MY.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Another item from TR's piece:

"he Rangers are "unsure" about making a qualifying offer to pending free agent Mike Napoli since if he accepted, Texas would owe the catcher approximately $13.35MM for the 2013 season. If the Rangers didn't issue a qualifying offer and Napoli signed elsewhere, however, then the Rangers wouldn't receive any draft pick compensation. Sullivan argues that Napoli could accept the qualifying offer in the wake of his somewhat disappointing 2012 season and look to rebound in 2013 to set himself up for a larger long-term deal with Texas or another club."

TR makes my head explode ... he would have TEX make a $13mil qualifying offer to Napoli or they get nothing if he signs elsewhere. TR ... Napoli's not worth $13mil so why would you want to make that offer? Nobody else is going to pay him $13mil either so why worry about it.

 

[scotsman1948]

From TR's piece: "Michael Young could receive some trade interest this winter from "a team in need of veteran leadership, as well as somebody who can play second base."

Veteran leadership that failed two years in a row? Not sure he's got anything to put on his CV about leadership ... unless it is about how he hogged a spot in the lineup every night and in return delivered a -2.4WAR.

As for "somebody who can play second base" ... I think an Alberto Gonzalez type would be cheaper and get you a higher WAR.

What lunatic team would want Young? TR is as self-serving as EG is when it comes to MY.

i'm not going defending any player on this team but is it fair to tag one player as the reason this team failed 3 years in a row? and did he hog a spot in the lineup or was he assigned a spot by the manager and being a ML player went out there and played? name any player that would go up to the manager and say "hey skip, i shouldn't be playing, take me out and put someone else in"

at your work, if there's someone else who can do your job, have you gone to your boss and said hey boss Joe can do my job better than me so maybe you should take me out and give it to him

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

Another item from TR's piece:

"he Rangers are "unsure" about making a qualifying offer to pending free agent Mike Napoli since if he accepted, Texas would owe the catcher approximately $13.35MM for the 2013 season. If the Rangers didn't issue a qualifying offer and Napoli signed elsewhere, however, then the Rangers wouldn't receive any draft pick compensation. Sullivan argues that Napoli could accept the qualifying offer in the wake of his somewhat disappointing 2012 season and look to rebound in 2013 to set himself up for a larger long-term deal with Texas or another club."

TR makes my head explode ... he would have TEX make a $13mil qualifying offer to Napoli or they get nothing if he signs elsewhere. TR ... Napoli's not worth $13mil so why would you want to make that offer? Nobody else is going to pay him $13mil either so why worry about it.

B/c another team could offer him more years & money than the Rangers are willing to give him....so then he'd leave w/o the Rangers getting any compensation.

 

[scotsman1948]

B/c another team could offer him more years & money than the Rangers are willing to give him....so then he'd leave w/o the Rangers getting any compensation.

that's TR's point. Napoli isn't going to accept the qualifying offer because he knows there are teams out there that will offer him a multi-year deal which is what he wants and the Rangers might not be one of them

 

[Xx srs bsns xX]

that's TR's point. Napoli isn't going to accept the qualifying offer because he knows there are teams out there that will offer him a multi-year deal which is what he wants and the Rangers might not be one of them

Actually... TR is say that Napoli might accept the qualifying offer... in hopes to have a better year and a higher contract after next season...

 

[bone3421]

man i am bummed.....never thought when i left for europe the rangers would be done when i got back......what a fucking choke job


anyways havent read many post in awhile but i am all for trading for cargo/upton if josh wants to much but i hope we can get him back.....

 

[slugger82685]

Another item from TR's piece:

"he Rangers are "unsure" about making a qualifying offer to pending free agent Mike Napoli since if he accepted, Texas would owe the catcher approximately $13.35MM for the 2013 season. If the Rangers didn't issue a qualifying offer and Napoli signed elsewhere, however, then the Rangers wouldn't receive any draft pick compensation. Sullivan argues that Napoli could accept the qualifying offer in the wake of his somewhat disappointing 2012 season and look to rebound in 2013 to set himself up for a larger long-term deal with Texas or another club."

TR makes my head explode ... he would have TEX make a $13mil qualifying offer to Napoli or they get nothing if he signs elsewhere. TR ... Napoli's not worth $13mil so why would you want to make that offer? Nobody else is going to pay him $13mil either so why worry about it.

I think you are missing the point...teams have to make a qualifying offer to their pending free agents in order to receive draft pick compensation if he decides to decline and sign elsewhere...with the qualifying offer this year being $13.5M and Napoli not being worth that much and potential not being offered a contract that he likes from another team, there is a risk for the Rangers to offer it to him as an expectations originally that it would be an automatic decline as he was looking for a multi-year deal, but with the disappointing season he had, there is a good chance he might actually accept the one year qualifying offer in order to regain his value for next year's free agency. So then the Rangers would be stuck with a guy that they know they are overpaying for the year and while they don't want to do that, they do want draft pick compensation if he does leave so this leaves them in a little bit of a pickle with him.