2012 NFL Mock Drafts

[Crimsoncrew]

Walker caught one TD against Detroit and he's a red zone threat? i guess any receiver is a red zone threat, some more than others.

Vernon Davis is a good overall TE, but he's not an elite receiving TE. whereas isn't Fleener more a WR than a TE? i'm not pushing for TE but if we added Fleener, project his career and not 2012.

Do you really still believe this? The guy put up nearly 300 yards and four TDs in two playoff games. He was the third-leading receiver in the playoffs despite only playing two games and only catching 10 balls (2/3 of those thrown in his direction) and being our only viable offensive threat. During the playoffs, he accounted for 59% of our passing offense, and an incredible 40% of our entire offensive production.

In addition to the playoffs, over the past three years he's posted 2,671 yards and 26 TDs. Witten has 2,974 yards and 16 TDs. Gates has 2,717 yards and 25 TDs. Davis is right up there with thos guys. Tony Gonzalez is just in the discussion at 2,398 yards and 19 TDs, but still in the conversation. While Gronkowski and Graham are likely now in that league as well - and may reestablish expectations for the position if they keep it up - these guys are clearly a cut above the rest. And Vernon is right up there with them.

Now consider that Davis has put up those numbers in a passing offense that accounted for 9,454 yards and 59 TDs in that span. By comparison, Dallas has 12,530 and 78 TDs in that time and SD has 13,283 and 76 TDs. These guys have effectively had an extra season. Hell, Graham and Gronk in two seasons are looking at 9,788 and 79 TDs and 8,931 and 76 TDs, respectively.

And then consider that Davis - and his QB - has been in a new offense literally every season. Of the guys above, only Tony Gonzalez has had to make a significant change in terms of his QB/system.

Now, Davis isn't the most consistent receiver out there. He doesn't have the pure receiving skills of a Gates or Graham. But he more than makes up for it with his elite strength and speed. TO was never an elite pass catcher, but he was an elite receiver. Davis is in a similar mold, though obviously at TE.

I've asked this before, but if Davis isn't elite, who is? What are the qualifications?

 

[deep9er]

I agree. If Fleener were to have a season like that within two years then it's the right move. And in the Walter mock we pick up Streeter in the 3rd, which hits our big speed WR, just not in the "prestigous" first round.

To me, if we are sitting at 30, and nobody wants to trade, and Fleener is the remaining 1st round graded prospect, why not go for it? If they feel Gilmore is there and he's a higher grade, then pick him (regardless of Rogers outcome).

agreed. if Gilmore (or whomever) is sitting there as the clear value, do it. cause over his CAREER, more talent means more contribution.

Needs change fast in the NFL, can't just look at the upcoming season.

 

[luckyluke22]

Do you really still believe this? The guy put up nearly 300 yards and four TDs in two playoff games. He was the third-leading receiver in the playoffs despite only playing two games and only catching 10 balls (2/3 of those thrown in his direction) and being our only viable offensive threat. During the playoffs, he accounted for 59% of our passing offense, and an incredible 40% of our entire offensive production.

In addition to the playoffs, over the past three years he's posted 2,671 yards and 26 TDs. Witten has 2,974 yards and 16 TDs. Gates has 2,717 yards and 25 TDs. Davis is right up there with thos guys. Tony Gonzalez is just in the discussion at 2,398 yards and 19 TDs, but still in the conversation. While Gronkowski and Graham are likely now in that league as well - and may reestablish expectations for the position if they keep it up - these guys are clearly a cut above the rest. And Vernon is right up there with them.

Now consider that Davis has put up those numbers in a passing offense that accounted for 9,454 yards and 59 TDs in that span. By comparison, Dallas has 12,530 and 78 TDs in that time and SD has 13,283 and 76 TDs. These guys have effectively had an extra season. Hell, Graham and Gronk in two seasons are looking at 9,788 and 79 TDs and 8,931 and 76 TDs, respectively.

And then consider that Davis - and his QB - has been in a new offense literally every season. Of the guys above, only Tony Gonzalez has had to make a significant change in terms of his QB/system.

Now, Davis isn't the most consistent receiver out there. He doesn't have the pure receiving skills of a Gates or Graham. But he more than makes up for it with his elite strength and speed. TO was never an elite pass catcher, but he was an elite receiver. Davis is in a similar mold, though obviously at TE.

I've asked this before, but if Davis isn't elite, who is? What are the qualifications?

+1 and repped

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Davis did say that both he and Walker had their issues digesting the playbook and everything asked of them. I bring that up because I believe that both Davis and Walker will be more effective in the passing game this upcoming season with everyone being more comfortable with the playbook.

Also what we're failing to look at is part of the reason we didn't see a more dynamic duo of TEs and we asked them to block quite a bit because or offensive line wasn't exactly the best group in the league in that department.

Fleener would just be a waste at 30th even if he's the BPA. I would rather reach on a need than use a 1st round pick on what amounts to a 2nd or 3rd TE on your team. And I have a tough time believing that at 30 Fleener is going to be heads and shoulders above all the other positions.

Davis definitely struggled to start the season, posting only 339 yards and 3 TDs in the first half of the season (114 of those in the Cincy game). Over the second half of the season he improved to 453 yards and 3 TDs, and he ended the season with 410 yards and 4 TDs in his final three games counting the playoffs.

 

[deep9er]

Do you really still believe this? The guy put up nearly 300 yards and four TDs in two playoff games. He was the third-leading receiver in the playoffs despite only playing two games and only catching 10 balls (2/3 of those thrown in his direction) and being our only viable offensive threat. During the playoffs, he accounted for 59% of our passing offense, and an incredible 40% of our entire offensive production.

In addition to the playoffs, over the past three years he's posted 2,671 yards and 26 TDs. Witten has 2,974 yards and 16 TDs. Gates has 2,717 yards and 25 TDs. Davis is right up there with thos guys. Tony Gonzalez is just in the discussion at 2,398 yards and 19 TDs, but still in the conversation. While Gronkowski and Graham are likely now in that league as well - and may reestablish expectations for the position if they keep it up - these guys are clearly a cut above the rest. And Vernon is right up there with them.

Now consider that Davis has put up those numbers in a passing offense that accounted for 9,454 yards and 59 TDs in that span. By comparison, Dallas has 12,530 and 78 TDs in that time and SD has 13,283 and 76 TDs. These guys have effectively had an extra season. Hell, Graham and Gronk in two seasons are looking at 9,788 and 79 TDs and 8,931 and 76 TDs, respectively.

And then consider that Davis - and his QB - has been in a new offense literally every season. Of the guys above, only Tony Gonzalez has had to make a significant change in terms of his QB/system.

Now, Davis isn't the most consistent receiver out there. He doesn't have the pure receiving skills of a Gates or Graham. But he more than makes up for it with his elite strength and speed. TO was never an elite pass catcher, but he was an elite receiver. Davis is in a similar mold, though obviously at TE.

I've asked this before, but if Davis isn't elite, who is? What are the qualifications?

yes, i believe this, but thats my opinion and not about to get started on a LONG thread. then everyone is going to start thinking i don't like Vernon Davis, or that i said he can't receive a lick?

lets put it this way, if you went to 32 NFL teams and took 10 fans from each City, ask them who are the best receiving TE's in the NFL today? when will "Vernon Davis" be spoken, 1st? 2nd? when on average?

here's another way. fantasy football is all about receiving stats, so for leagues across America and specically TE's......when was Vernon Davis drafted in each league? 1st? 2nd? when on average?

 

[BINGO]

Do you really still believe this? The guy put up nearly 300 yards and four TDs in two playoff games. He was the third-leading receiver in the playoffs despite only playing two games and only catching 10 balls (2/3 of those thrown in his direction) and being our only viable offensive threat. During the playoffs, he accounted for 59% of our passing offense, and an incredible 40% of our entire offensive production.

In addition to the playoffs, over the past three years he's posted 2,671 yards and 26 TDs. Witten has 2,974 yards and 16 TDs. Gates has 2,717 yards and 25 TDs. Davis is right up there with thos guys. Tony Gonzalez is just in the discussion at 2,398 yards and 19 TDs, but still in the conversation. While Gronkowski and Graham are likely now in that league as well - and may reestablish expectations for the position if they keep it up - these guys are clearly a cut above the rest. And Vernon is right up there with them.

Now consider that Davis has put up those numbers in a passing offense that accounted for 9,454 yards and 59 TDs in that span. By comparison, Dallas has 12,530 and 78 TDs in that time and SD has 13,283 and 76 TDs. These guys have effectively had an extra season. Hell, Graham and Gronk in two seasons are looking at 9,788 and 79 TDs and 8,931 and 76 TDs, respectively.

And then consider that Davis - and his QB - has been in a new offense literally every season. Of the guys above, only Tony Gonzalez has had to make a significant change in terms of his QB/system.

Now, Davis isn't the most consistent receiver out there. He doesn't have the pure receiving skills of a Gates or Graham. But he more than makes up for it with his elite strength and speed. TO was never an elite pass catcher, but he was an elite receiver. Davis is in a similar mold, though obviously at TE.

I've asked this before, but if Davis isn't elite, who is? What are the qualifications?

+85

Damn, what a great post!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

yes, i believe this, but thats my opinion and not about to get started on a LONG thread. then everyone is going to start thinking i don't like Vernon Davis, or that i said he can't receive a lick?

lets put it this way, if you went to 32 NFL teams and took 10 fans from each City, ask them who are the best receiving TE's in the NFL today? when will "Vernon Davis" be spoken, 1st? 2nd? when on average?

here's another way. fantasy football is all about receiving stats, so for leagues across America and specically TE's......when was Vernon Davis drafted in each league? 1st? 2nd? when on average?

So we're basing who is elite on what the casual fan thinks? That's an interesting position. It's a good way not to actually validate your belief,

Again, who is an elite receiving TE, and how do they differ from Davis? It doesn't have to be a long discussion. Just tell us what you - not some other fan - thinks qualifies as an elite TE.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Though, just for shits, if I were picking TEs in fantasy tomorrow, I would probably have Davis third or fourth. Gronk and Graham are the clear #1 and #2 right now, but based on what he showed to end the year, I'd take Davis ahead of both Gates (based primarily on his inability to stay on the field) and Witten (doesn't get in the endzone).

 

[luckyluke22]

What do people think about taking Konz to play RG, then slide over to C when Goowin's contract expires?
Crimson - what RB could be at 30 with respectable value? ( ie not a reach)
Would Mark Barron work for people? (Dashons replacement?)
This morning I feel like our first round pick has a low probability of starting next year, instead will play a situational role ( a la Aldon) so what positions are situational players alright to draft....
Although Fleener wouldn't be my first choice, if Reuland can improve his blocking we'd have an impressive TE group of the future in Davis, Fleener, Reuland, Walker (if he stays).
What are your thoughts on Owusu (sp?) from Stanford?

 

[CalamityX11]

Gronk/Hernandez & Graham do play in offenses that value the passing attack much more than we employ in SF.

Gronk has Hernandez, Hernandez has Gronk to take pressure off each other to allow plays to happen.

Graham has Brees and the WRs to give him room to make plays.

By their own due/credit, they got the job done. But no way in jeebus world, do those 3 and Vernon play in similar offenses. How often do you see any of those 3 back blocking? Their offenses are geared for passing and pts. Ours prior was the gun and grind effect. It wasn't til the playoffs where Davis was a main part in the offense. IMO

 

[CalamityX11]

Walker caught one TD against Detroit and he's a red zone threat? i guess any receiver is a red zone threat, some more than others.

Vernon Davis is a good overall TE, but he's not an elite receiving TE. whereas isn't Fleener more a WR than a TE? i'm not pushing for TE but if we added Fleener, project his career and not 2012.

Well, if part of the reason to draft a TE in this case is to fill in the redzone threat, that would imply the redzone threat has been vacant or close to it.

I think we need more of a threat in the WR area, especially in the redzone but TEs, both Walker and Davis has come through in those areas.

Walker's GW in Det.
Davis GW in SF in playoffs, Pitt gm on MNF.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

What do people think about taking Konz to play RG, then slide over to C when Goowin's contract expires?
Crimson - what RB could be at 30 with respectable value? ( ie not a reach)
Would Mark Barron work for people? (Dashons replacement?)
This morning I feel like our first round pick has a low probability of starting next year, instead will play a situational role ( a la Aldon) so what positions are situational players alright to draft....
Although Fleener wouldn't be my first choice, if Reuland can improve his blocking we'd have an impressive TE group of the future in Davis, Fleener, Reuland, Walker (if he stays).
What are your thoughts on Owusu (sp?) from Stanford?

I'm not the person to ask about the draft, especially this year. I haven't followed college football closely in about six years, and didn't even start reading up on the draft until two weeks ago.

Having said that, re: those questions, I'd probably prefer just to stick Konz at C. Mark Barron strikes me as more of a SS, so I don't think he's great candidate to replace Goldson. I'm not sure Reuland sticks, especially if we add an additional TE. Byham will be coming back and I'd give him the nod over Reuland if he's healthy, though they're pretty different players. Owusu is intriguing in the later rounds. He's clearly got tremendous talent, but the concussions are a huge concern. I wouldn't touch him until the 4th or 5th round, if that. But I'd defer to our staff on that one. They know the guy better than anyone.

 

[AU_Fever]

Do you really still believe this? The guy put up nearly 300 yards and four TDs in two playoff games. He was the third-leading receiver in the playoffs despite only playing two games and only catching 10 balls (2/3 of those thrown in his direction) and being our only viable offensive threat. During the playoffs, he accounted for 59% of our passing offense, and an incredible 40% of our entire offensive production.

In addition to the playoffs, over the past three years he's posted 2,671 yards and 26 TDs. Witten has 2,974 yards and 16 TDs. Gates has 2,717 yards and 25 TDs. Davis is right up there with thos guys. Tony Gonzalez is just in the discussion at 2,398 yards and 19 TDs, but still in the conversation. While Gronkowski and Graham are likely now in that league as well - and may reestablish expectations for the position if they keep it up - these guys are clearly a cut above the rest. And Vernon is right up there with them.

Now consider that Davis has put up those numbers in a passing offense that accounted for 9,454 yards and 59 TDs in that span. By comparison, Dallas has 12,530 and 78 TDs in that time and SD has 13,283 and 76 TDs. These guys have effectively had an extra season. Hell, Graham and Gronk in two seasons are looking at 9,788 and 79 TDs and 8,931 and 76 TDs, respectively.

And then consider that Davis - and his QB - has been in a new offense literally every season. Of the guys above, only Tony Gonzalez has had to make a significant change in terms of his QB/system.

Now, Davis isn't the most consistent receiver out there. He doesn't have the pure receiving skills of a Gates or Graham. But he more than makes up for it with his elite strength and speed. TO was never an elite pass catcher, but he was an elite receiver. Davis is in a similar mold, though obviously at TE.

I've asked this before, but if Davis isn't elite, who is? What are the qualifications?

Crimson, your posts are very insightful. I enjoy reading them. What would be Davis' numbers if he had Brees or Brady throwing to him. I would consider Davis among the best TE's in the league.

 

[deep9er]

So we're basing who is elite on what the casual fan thinks? That's an interesting position. It's a good way not to actually validate your belief,

Again, who is an elite receiving TE, and how do they differ from Davis? It doesn't have to be a long discussion. Just tell us what you - not some other fan - thinks qualifies as an elite TE.

well thats what we are really......casual fans. i know you're not a coach, scout, personnel man, etc.

or are you implying your opinion is higher than other fans?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

well thats what we are really......casual fans. i know you're not a coach, scout, personnel man, etc.

or are you implying your opinion is higher than other fans?

No, but I'm implying my knowledge of Vernon Davis' receiving abilities is greater than that of, say, Miami Dolphins fans. And hell, I've got friends who play FF regularly who literally can't name half as many starters on their own "favorite" team - not the Niners - as I can. I would not consider myself an average fan, though.

Seriously, Deep, just back up your claim. If Davis' numbers are as good as Witten and Gates, despite the legitimate challenges I've identified, why are those guys elite and not him? Or are those guys not elite, either? Who is elite and what is YOUR basis for deciding who is and who isn't elite?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Lets not forget that Davis is the only top TE that doesn't play with a top QB.

Gronk and hernandez play with Brady.

Finley is with Rodgers.

Graham is with Brees.

Witten is with Romo.

Gates is with Rivers.

What would Davis' numbers look like with one of those QBs?

 

[BINGO]

First Draft: 2/29
Todd McShay and Mel Kiper Jr. recap the combine performances and highlight who stood out the most at each position.

First Draft: 2/29 - ESPN

 

[deep9er]

No, but I'm implying my knowledge of Vernon Davis' receiving abilities is greater than that of, say, Miami Dolphins fans. And hell, I've got friends who play FF regularly who literally can't name half as many starters on their own "favorite" team - not the Niners - as I can. I would not consider myself an average fan, though.

Seriously, Deep, just back up your claim. If Davis' numbers are as good as Witten and Gates, despite the legitimate challenges I've identified, why are those guys elite and not him? Or are those guys not elite, either? Who is elite and what is YOUR basis for deciding who is and who isn't elite?

i know you better than that, we'll get into a LONG thread and next thing i know, you'll say i "claimed" Vernon Davis isn't good, he can't catch a lick, trade him, etc.

again, its my opinion Vernon isn't an elite RECEIVING TE, and i'm sticking with it.

btw - for the stats you posted earlier, why did you select a three year time frame? how many snaps did those guys play over three years, versus Davis?

 

[Ray_Dogg]

He might not be elite in terms of consistency catching the ball (hands). He also likes to jump catch almost every pass which has lead to incompletions. Other than that he's pretty damn good. He's vastly improved his agility.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i know you better than that, we'll get into a LONG thread and next thing i know, you'll say i "claimed" Vernon Davis isn't good, he can't catch a lick, trade him, etc.

again, its my opinion Vernon isn't an elite RECEIVING TE, and i'm sticking with it.

btw - for the stats you posted earlier, why did you select a three year time frame? how many snaps did those guys play over three years, versus Davis?

It's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. There's just no basis for it, apparently. Why even bother to offer it if you can't support it when you're questioned on it?

I don't think you said that Davis is a bad receiver, but if you don't think he's elite, I'm curious what you consider elite. Cause where I'm standing, Davis - especially in his most recent action - looks pretty damn good. I don't know many "good but not elite" TEs who can put up three consecutive 100+ yard games.

As for the stats I posted, I looked at two things: most recent history and a somewhat longer period. The most recent history, again, is Davis blowing up with three phenomenal games. I extended out to three years because those have been Davis' elite years. Four years ago he was playing in a Mike Martz offense that barely used the TE. That wasn't a good basis for comparison. I can't speak to snap counts for these guys during that period, but Witten has played in every game. Gates has missed nine games. There's no doubt that, on a per-game basis, he's the better receiving TE than Davis. But health is a factor in evaluating a player, and Gates never seems entirely healthy. So that's a strike against him.