2012 College Football / 2013 NFL Draft

[NinerSickness]

So Dodub, you mentioned you think the Lambs will take Patterson at 16 (I hope they do; I don't want any part of Warmack or Cooper in St. Louis). You think Patterson will play at a level in the NFL that will justify the 16th pick?

Would you value Patterson over a guy like Alec Ogletree or DJ Fluker? (I'd rather go against Patterson twice a year than those guys).

 

[Dodub]

So Dodub, you mentioned you think the Lambs will take Patterson at 16 (I hope they do; I don't want any part of Warmack or Cooper in St. Louis). You think Patterson will play at a level in the NFL that will justify the 16th pick?

Would you value Patterson over a guy like Alec Ogletree or DJ Fluker? (I'd rather go against Patterson twice a year than those guys).

I do think that Patterson will play at a level with justify the 16th pick if he lasts that long. I think this kid has so much potential and the Rams coaching staff will get ahold of him and clean up his game a bit.

Are we talking about how I rank a player or what makes more sense for a team like the Rams because those are very different things.

For the Rams it makes tons of sense for them to take a guy like Patterson. They have a heavy need at WR and there just happens to be an awesome WR prospect staring them in the face, they are in desperate need of a guy like Patterson.

While whatever team gets Olgetree they will likely be happy with his production, the Rams would benefit much more from getting a WR. Plus Ogletree is a knucklehead which would make me a little wary.

 

[BINGO]

Lol why don't you like him Bingo?

He doesn't attack the ball, his route running (other than the go route) is not crisp/precise enough. He reminds me of Roy Williams without the ball skills in the red zone. He doesn't abuse corners like he should for a man that big and that athletic. He's not horrible, he's just not a #1 receiver in my book.

 

[NinerSickness]

Roy Williams couldn't touch his toes.

Justin Hunter is a far better athlete than Roy was. Much more fluid too. And Roy Williams was actually pretty good early on.

I always said Hunter looks like a more athletic Sydney Rice to me. Maybe a much more athletic one considering his performance at the combine. He's probably my favourite WR in the draft now (considering we will never know how Keenan Allen would compare to the rest of the pack at the combine).

 

[BINGO]

Roy Williams couldn't touch his toes.

Justin Hunter is a far better athlete than Roy was. Much more fluid too. And Roy Williams was actually pretty good early on.

I always said Hunter looks like a more athletic Sydney Rice to me. Maybe a much more athletic one considering his performance at the combine. He's probably my favourite WR in the draft now (considering we will never know how Keenan Allen would compare to the rest of the pack at the combine).

Sydney Rice my a$$!! On the field Rice is one of the most gifted (in terms of athletic ability) players that there is in the league. He can contort his body to adjust to passes in the air. Makes catches over either shoulder down the sideline and can stay in-bounds. He has a keen sense to make the sidelines-tip-toeing catches. Hunter does not posses that type of awareness, nor is he able to translate his track-and-field / workout warrior skills onto the field. It's all about making the tough catches, he has not done that at all in his college career. The guy is 6'4 and nearly with a 40inch vertical, so yes he will out jump a DB here and there and come up with a nice grab by catching the ball at it's highest point. Unfortunately in the NFL, it's about making the tough catches (over the shoulder, twisting your body in midair to adjust to a ball) - Hunter has not done that at Tennessee.

 

[NinerSickness]

So there's talk that Jarvis Jones could be falling out of the top 15.

I don't remember any defensive players with spinal stenosis, but Marcus McNeill & Chris Samuels plays for at least 5 years with the condition. And they played every snap. If Jarvis Jones were used like Aldon was used his rookie season, I'd be more than willing to risk trading up to get him; I'd feel confident they could get 5 years out of the guy.

Aldon & Jones rushing the QB at OLB wouldn't even be fair. That'd be like the '02 Buccs' pass rush (especially if Justin Smith has some more in the tank).

I don't want Brooks & Aldon to play every down anyway. The Niners need a pass-rush specialist at OLB to spell those guys IMO. If Jarvis Jones is there at 14, the Niners should try to trade up with Carolina & take him (unless Hankins & Richardson are both on the board, in which case I'd rather trade up for one of them). Carolina won't want him, but the Taintsat 15 might since they're switching to a 3-4.

 

[BINGO]

So there's talk that Jarvis Jones could be falling out of the top 15.

I don't remember any defensive players with spinal stenosis, but Marcus McNeill & Chris Samuels plays for at least 5 years with the condition. And they played every snap. If Jarvis Jones were used like Aldon was used his rookie season, I'd be more than willing to risk trading up to get him; I'd feel confident they could get 5 years out of the guy.

Aldon & Jones rushing the QB at OLB wouldn't even be fair. That'd be like the '02 Buccs' pass rush (especially if Justin Smith has some more in the tank).

I don't want Brooks & Aldon to play every down anyway. The Niners need a pass-rush specialist at OLB to spell those guys IMO. If Jarvis Jones is there at 14, the Niners should try to trade up with Carolina & take him (unless Hankins & Richardson are both on the board, in which case I'd rather trade up for one of them). Carolina won't want him, but the Taintsat 15 might since they're switching to a 3-4.

I agree with this. Even if we are unable to get him at 15, I would hope that someone like Mingo or Ansah would be available at 18 so we can draft one of them there!

 

[NinerSickness]

Sydney Rice wasn't as polished as you described when he was a Gamecock. He needed some time to develop.

I have no delusions that Hunter is AJ Green. I just think he's the best WR in this draft.

 

[NinerSickness]

I agree with this. Even if we are unable to get him at 15, I would hope that someone like Mingo or Ansah would be available at 18 so we can draft one of them there!

Ansah looks like he's gonna be a top 10 pick IMO. I'd be surprised if he were there at 14. I can't see Miami passing on him.

Mingo, on the other hand, is not a guy for whom I want the Niners to tarde up. He looks like Manny Lawson 2.0 IMO.

 

[I_am_1z]

He doesn't attack the ball, his route running (other than the go route) is not crisp/precise enough. He reminds me of Roy Williams without the ball skills in the red zone. He doesn't abuse corners like he should for a man that big and that athletic. He's not horrible, he's just not a #1 receiver in my book.

This doesn't make sense, what's the difference between attacking the ball on a go route or a deep post or a fade? The route ran has nothing to do on how the receiver attacks the ball.

 

[I_am_1z]

Sydney Rice wasn't as polished as you described when he was a Gamecock. He needed some time to develop.

I have no delusions that Hunter is AJ Green. I just think he's the best WR in this draft.

I agree he's similar, but not Green just yet.

 

[NinerSickness]

By the way, Hunter wouldn't to have to "attack" the ball very much with Kaep throwing it to him. The ball will be going so fast he'll just have to make sure he's in the right position to get it. If it's a matter of "attacking" it vertically, then I have faith in 6'4, long arms & 39.5 vertical.

 

[BINGO]

Sydney Rice wasn't as polished as you described when he was a Gamecock. He needed some time to develop.

I have no delusions that Hunter is AJ Green. I just think he's the best WR in this draft.

Rice was indeed somewhat of a polished receiver when he left South Carolina. We raved about his hands too. The knock on Sydney was his medical issue, and top end speed. Other than that he was known as a very polished receiver with very good hands (DeAndre Hopkins have those same type of hands this year). Again, the knock on Sydney was his speed, medical concerns, and a little off the field issues.

 

[BINGO]

Ansah looks like he's gonna be a top 10 pick IMO. I'd be surprised if he were there at 14. I can't see Miami passing on him.

Mingo, on the other hand, is not a guy for whom I want the Niners to tarde up. He looks like Manny Lawson 2.0 IMO.

What do you think of Bruce Irvin? Mingo is a better LB than Irvin and Irvin is a guy I would have accepted last year if he had fallen to us at pick 30.

 

[BINGO]

This doesn't make sense, what's the difference between attacking the ball on a go route or a deep post or a fade? The route ran has nothing to do on how the receiver attacks the ball.

Attacking the ball when the player is in traffic. Not waiting for the ball to get to you (being overly passive) but rather you go and attack the ball (aggressive). You misunderstood what I am trying to say, so I'm not going to go in debt in trying to make you understand. Simply look at this game tape on Hopkins you'll see how a receiver is suppose to attack the ball. Come back routes / in traffic not waiting for the ball but coming back or going up to grab it from the defenders:

 

[NinerSickness]

What do you think of Bruce Irvin? Mingo is a better LB than Irvin and Irvin is a guy I would have accepted last year if he had fallen to us at pick 30.

I wasn't a big Irvin fan when he was in college, but he proved he can at least rush the passer. He's still not great against the run, but he could get better.

I'm not convinced Mingo is on Irvin's level rushing the passer. he might be a guy who will do much better as a stand up LB than a guy with his hand in the dirt every down, but I always thought Montgomery out-played him against better tackles in college (Mingo almost always rushed from the left side of the defense). I don't recall Mingo ever over-powering a guy or bull rush on a stunt. When he played against Jake Matthews (confirming what Adrian Peterson says about NFL players) Mingo was owned (especially against the run).

The guy's just too lanky for my taste. Not enough power. I'd easily take Irvin over Mingo.

 

[NinerSickness]

Random note: I think I'm convinced Alex Okafor would make a better 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB. JMHO.

 

[BINGO]

I wasn't a big Irvin fan when he was in college, but he proved he can at least rush the passer. He's still not great against the run, but he could get better.

I'm not convinced Mingo is on Irvin's level rushing the passer. he might be a guy who will do much better as a stand up LB than a guy with his hand in the dirt every down, but I always thought Montgomery out-played him against better tackles in college (Mingo almost always rushed from the left side of the defense). I don't recall Mingo ever over-powering a guy or bull rush on a stunt. When he played against Jake Matthews (confirming what Adrian Peterson says about NFL players) Mingo was owned (especially against the run).


The guy's just too lanky for my taste. Not enough power. I'd easily take Irvin over Mingo.

I agree in that he needs to be a little bit more stout (I think he'll get there with more training). But woww Sick, you are making a very bad mistake by underrating this kid. His first step off the snap of the ball is unreal. The guy is just as explosive off the snap as Von Miller:

 

[I_am_1z]

Attacking the ball when the player is in traffic. Not waiting for the ball to get to you (being overly passive) but rather you go and attack the ball (aggressive). You misunderstood what I am trying to say, so I'm not going to go in debt in trying to make you understand. Simply look at this game tape on Hopkins you'll see how a receiver is suppose to attack the ball. Come back routes / in traffic not waiting for the ball but coming back or going up to grab it from the defenders:

Hopkins is my favorite WR this year. If you're talking about attacking the ball and not losing much of his stride, I get what you're saying, but if you're saying that it's possible to passively attack the ball at it's highest point, then that's what I'm not understanding.

 

[NinerSickness]

I don't doubt Mingo's first step. That's the one thing nobody else has on him. But I couldn't endorse trading up for a guy with such little raw strength compared to other OLB prospects. I would love to ahve Mingo on the team, but a top 25 pick is just too much when there are a lot of players I think would make a better impact like Montgomery. Mongomery is being considered a borderline 1st rounder or 2nd rounder; Mingo would have to have some obscene numbers tommorow in order to justify being taken higher than Montgomery IMO.

Some random names I'd take over Mingo:

Obviously Hankins, Jones, Richardson, Warmack & Cooper. But also Eifert, Short, Allen, probably 2-3 of the CBs (I'm waiting for the DBs to run to say for sure), John Jenkins, Hunter. Maybe Okafor too (waiting to see his numbers).

Manny Lawson 2.0 is a bit of an over-generalization, but I do see a lot of Manny in his game.