Joey Bosa...not signed, which side do you fall?

[cdumler7]

Does he get the remainder of the contract if he is injured?

From what I understand the Chargers are wanting to delay when certain payments go out. He would still get his money whether injured or not just wouldn't get it all at once. Teams do this for a couple of reasons.

1) Instead of that money sitting in the players bank account collecting interest it sits in the team's bank account collecting interest. It isn't a whole lot but hey $500,000 saved on say 5-6 contracts a year really adds up over a 10-year period.

2) It does give the team just a bit more protection. AS said earlier if he is traded then they are not responsible for that money. The odds of them trading him are very slim but just in the off chance they do it helps them out just a bit.

 

[Davis_Mike]

It has everything to do with not getting all of the money up front.

What are you talking about?

-Offset language - Means a player can't double dip if cut.
-Deferring singing bonus payment - Means that the minute he signs the contract, he is guaranteed that money, but the money is paid out in installments. Usually split between the time of the contract signing & the start of the following NFL league year in March.

And both of these are pretty standard in most or many first round pick contracts.

I haven't been following this too closely, but as understand it, these are the two issue keeping him from signing. And he is okay with both of those issues, but only will agree to one or the other, not both because he is the #3 pick...

Edit: And I blame this all on the Rams.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think you make really good points, and if Bosa wants more money he should definitely sign.

However, the Chargers really are screwing him over and basically giving him the worst deal of any top 5 pick since the new cba in 2011. So I also understand on principle why he wouldn't sign, even if it meant losing out on money.

Regardless, I think the Chargers come off looking the absolute worst in this situation. If you don't want to pony up the same as every other top 5 pick in the last 6 years, trade down. Combine this with the Weddle situation last year and I can't imagine the Chargers being a very attractive destination for players, which could really hurt them in the long run.

Aside from giving him the most money of any #3 overall...how are they screwing him over? By insisting to protect themselves in case he busts? Deferring the bonus 2nd pymt until March is screwing him over...a little...give you that.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Why shouldnt the contract protect him? The team wants protection, shouldnt the player? If he gets a career ending injury in camp, he is out big. The team is out yes, but some money which to them is not nearly as life changing as to the player.

The $17 mil kinda does protect him...long before he proven worth it.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Who was the last rookie who earned their keep the first year?

Not a sarcastic question. Asking you guys is always more fun than google.

There are usually a 2 or 3 rookies from every class that play up to their contract in their rookie year. In just the last 2 years, Amari Cooper, Todd Gurley, Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, OBJ, Aaron Donald, Zack Martin. Bosa could be one of those guys. Who knows?

 

[ellupo]

What are you talking about?

-Offset language - Means a player can't double dip if cut.
-Deferring singing bonus payment - Means that the minute he signs the contract, he is guaranteed that money, but the money is paid out in installments. Usually split between the time of the contract signing & the start of the following NFL league year in March.

And both of these are pretty standard in most or many first round pick contracts.

I haven't been following this too closely, but as understand it, these are the two issue keeping him from signing. And he is okay with both of those issues, but only will agree to one or the other, not both because he is the #3 pick...

Edit: And I blame this all on the Rams.

How do you not understand getting money up front?

From what I understand the Chargers are wanting to delay when certain payments go out. He would still get his money whether injured or not just wouldn't get it all at once. Teams do this for a couple of reasons.

1) Instead of that money sitting in the players bank account collecting interest it sits in the team's bank account collecting interest. It isn't a whole lot but hey $500,000 saved on say 5-6 contracts a year really adds up over a 10-year period.

2) It does give the team just a bit more protection. AS said earlier if he is traded then they are not responsible for that money. The odds of them trading him are very slim but just in the off chance they do it helps them out just a bit.

Its seems like he may want that money sitting collecting interest for himself.

If he is still protected under injury then I dont see a lot of reason not to sign other than as you mentioned the interest.

The $17 mil kinda does protect him...long before he proven worth it.

If they are concerned about him proving it then maybe they should have traded down instead of picking where they did with numbers in place for that pick.

As said earlier maybe he wants that interest to be made in his account and not the teams.

 

[RavensNation2158]

Define, "earn your keep".

If you're asking who is a rookie who outplays the value of their contract in terms of what they make compared to to the rest of the league, it happens a lot. Even just on my own team, almost every year there is a rookie who is of major value contractually. Super Bowl champions today are often dictated by the value they brought by players on their rookie contracts.

Well, Sonny... I have to agree with you and eat some crow here. Lynch is a great example. Cam another. I'm not sure what I meant by earning their keep. Maybe I had Manziel on the brain... I had a few beers after a rough day and was jealous that Bosa has barely been out of puberty for a decade, has no idea what it's like to work a soul-sucking corporate job or live in the real world, but has the ability to hold out on a crazy amount of money because he can, or because it's not enough. Jealousy is an ugly beast.

I hope he gets what he wants and I hope he is worth it.
Mostly, I just want his mom to STFU.

 

[Davis_Mike]

How do you not understand getting money up front?



Its seems like he may want that money sitting collecting interest for himself.

If he is still protected under injury then I dont see a lot of reason not to sign other than as you mentioned the interest.


If they are concerned about him proving it then maybe they should have traded down instead of picking where they did with numbers in place for that pick.

As said earlier maybe he wants that interest to be made in his account and not the teams.

What you don't understand is that money up front doesn't change. The contracts are pretty standard. The up front money is the up front money. They aren't negotiating the dollar amount, they are just negotiating if he receives it all at the time of the contract signing or if it's split into multiple payments.

Look, it has been reported that HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER STIPULATION, only that he will only agree to one or other in the contract, not both.

And the reason he won't agree to both is... he is special because he is the #3 pick.

Well enjoy sitting out for the year & losing $10 mil you will never see again, because the Chargers aren't likely to budge.

 

[ellupo]

What you don't understand is that money up front doesn't change. The contracts are pretty standard. The up front money is the up front money. They aren't negotiating the dollar amount, they are just negotiating if he receives it all at the time of the contract signing or if it's split into multiple payments.

Look, it has been reported that HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER STIPULATION, only that he will only agree to one or other in the contract, not both.

And the reason he won't agree to both is... he is special because he is the #3 pick.

Well enjoy sitting out for the year & losing $10 mil you will never see again, because the Chargers aren't likely to budge.

As was said earlier, when he gets it determines a great deal on the interest. Multiple payments slows that down for him. If he is willing to accept less interest then maybe he thinks that hit is enough and there should be no offset. Since neither of us are him we can only speculate why he wont take both.

 

[Davis_Mike]

As was said earlier, when he gets it determines a great deal on the interest. Multiple payments slows that down for him. If he is willing to accept less interest then maybe he thinks that hit is enough and there should be no offset. Since neither of us are him we can only speculate why he wont take both.

You do realize that by splitting the payment over multiple tax periods, he likely lessens his tax burden? And that the amount of money he would earn in interest over 8-10 months for half of the $17 mil is likely less than $350k?

The reason he is holding out is that he has his agent is chirping in his ear, telling him not to set a precedent.

Players don't get paid during the preseason, so holding out now doesn't financially hurt him since he isn't under contract. So his agent will keep chirping away till they both start to feel the pain of financial loss.

 

[cdumler7]

You do realize that by splitting the payment over multiple tax periods, he likely lessens his tax burden? And that the amount of money he would earn in interest over 8-10 months for half of the $17 mil is likely less than $350k?

The reason he is holding out is that he has his agent is chirping in his ear, telling him not to set a precedent.

I was actually going to bring up that the money earned in interest might not be enough to counter what he would be paying in taxes compared to if it is broken up. So I don't think that is as big of a deal for him as it is for the team continuing to collect interest on that money.

 

[Davis_Mike]

I was actually going to bring up that the money earned in interest might not be enough to counter what he would be paying in taxes compared to if it is broken up. So I don't think that is as big of a deal for him as it is for the team continuing to collect interest on that money.

Yeah, I don't know what the real numbers would be, but it's pretty insignificant compared to the whole picture. But I thought all deferred payments & contract escalator money had to be held in escrow for the players?

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah, I don't know what the real numbers would be, but it's pretty insignificant compared to whole picture. But I thought all deferred payments & contract escalator money had to be held in escrow for the players?

Some of that depends on the language of the contract. Any kind of signing bonus yes it would have to be held no matter what from day 1. The guaranteed though say it became guaranteed in March of next year then that money they can hold onto until next year. I would have to see the language of the contract to see if that would be one of the small reasons this is happening. Most rookie contracts are pretty easy honestly so I doubt that would be a reason the more I think about it.

 

[Davis_Mike]

Honesty, I think both sides are being silly. But if this runs the course, Bosa is the one who ends up losing more.

 

[PDay8810]

Honesty, I think both sides are being silly. But if this runs the course, Bosa is the one who ends up losing more.

yep...they deserve each other and I remain happy Boza didn't land in Dallas

 

[cdumler7]

Honesty, I think both sides are being silly. But if this runs the course, Bosa is the one who ends up losing more.

NFL Teams for the most part come out on top on things like this. Bosa really doesn't have much to stand on right now considering he is a rookie that hasn't even stepped foot in camp yet. The team owns his rights and actually say he does sit out the entire year yes he can reenter the draft but clear up until the actual draft he cannot talk to other teams and cannot compete in the combine or any kind of private workouts. So teams would just have to trust he stayed in shape and was good to go. I'm sure he would still get drafted pretty high but we are talking a huge slide from 3rd overall. I mean what team wants to deal with a guy that just sat out for an entire year over a contract issue? So you are right Bosa misses out on huge money and as we have seen in the NFL that once you get a black mark on you in the NFL it is hard to get out of it.

 

[PDay8810]

we have seen in the NFL that once you get a black mark on you in the NFL it is hard to get out of it.

Bull Shit....10/12 sacks removes any negative.

 

[cdumler7]

Bull Shit....10/12 sacks removes any negative.

Did I say it is impossible to get out of it? NO. I said it is difficult. Obviously great play overcomes any kind of negative. I mean it is the only reason Hardy was in the league this past year. So a player can overcome it but the pressure is a bit more for him to perform early and often.

 

[Calm]

Bull Shit....10/12 sacks removes any negative.

Just ask Greg Hardy.

 

[ellupo]

You do realize that by splitting the payment over multiple tax periods, he likely lessens his tax burden? And that the amount of money he would earn in interest over 8-10 months for half of the $17 mil is likely less than $350k?

The reason he is holding out is that he has his agent is chirping in his ear, telling him not to set a precedent.

Players don't get paid during the preseason, so holding out now doesn't financially hurt him since he isn't under contract. So his agent will keep chirping away till they both start to feel the pain of financial loss.

How is he lowering his tax burden? Is there a tax percent increase from ten to 17 million?