Joey Bosa...not signed, which side do you fall?

[ATL96Steeler]

How do you not understand getting money up front?

If they are concerned about him proving it then maybe they should have traded down instead of picking where they did with numbers in place for that pick.

As said earlier maybe he wants that interest to be made in his account and not the teams.

lol...general comment...it applies to all the draft picks.

Scanning through most of the responses in this thread, at the end of the day those that side with the player mostly think the Chargers are a poorly run organization and think they should fall in line with the MO of other teams in the same situation.

The majority vibe seems to think the team has the control here, as a draft pick, you really don't have much leverage aside from not playing, and not getting paid, which imo makes zero sense in this situation.

That's where I am as well...regardless of what we think about the Chargers MO...it's their MO...they're not coloring outside the lines so to speak...it's all above board. Yes, they need Bosa on the field, but if they don't feel any player is above their MO, they will hold their position...with no dog in the fight...I side with the team.

 

[PDay8810]

Did I say it is impossible to get out of it? NO. I said it is difficult. Obviously great play overcomes any kind of negative. I mean it is the only reason Hardy was in the league this past year. So a player can overcome it but the pressure is a bit more for him to perform early and often.

All any of um have to do is perform to expectations. 10 to 12 sacks will remove any negative is the point

 

[PDay8810]

Just ask Greg Hardy.

yep, thus Hardy resides by the ice machine outside a local 7-11

 

[ATL96Steeler]

As was said earlier, when he gets it determines a great deal on the interest. Multiple payments slows that down for him. If he is willing to accept less interest then maybe he thinks that hit is enough and there should be no offset. Since neither of us are him we can only speculate why he wont take both.

It's not about interest, it's about principle. Condon is trying to save face by not caving on both issues.

 

[Broncos6482]

What you don't understand is that money up front doesn't change. The contracts are pretty standard. The up front money is the up front money. They aren't negotiating the dollar amount, they are just negotiating if he receives it all at the time of the contract signing or if it's split into multiple payments.

Look, it has been reported that HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER STIPULATION, only that he will only agree to one or other in the contract, not both.

And the reason he won't agree to both is... he wants to be treated like every other top 5 pick since 2011.

Well enjoy sitting out for the year & losing $10 mil you will never see again, because the Chargers aren't likely to budge.

 

[Calm]

yep, thus Hardy resides by the ice machine outside a local 7-11

Where he should have been much sooner.

 

[cdumler7]

All any of um have to do is perform to expectations. 10 to 12 sacks will remove any negative is the point

And I have said I agree with that. What I mean is there are some players and situations where players get lots of chances to prove themselves. Most 1st round picks do not get cut even if they are terrible for the first couple of years. Compare that to an UDFA where they have 1 training camp for the most part to prove that they belong.

This would be strike one against Bosa if he doesn't get signed and holds out until next draft. He would obviously still be given a chance but I think teams will be much more hesitant than this past draft with him.

 

[Money]

I don't know how a team could work up their risk/reward profile on Bosa and then have him as the 3rd player on their board (or in SD's case the top player?).

 

[Niner Outlaw]

And I have said I agree with that. What I mean is there are some players and situations where players get lots of chances to prove themselves. Most 1st round picks do not get cut even if they are terrible for the first couple of years. Compare that to an UDFA where they have 1 training camp for the most part to prove that they belong.

This would be strike one against Bosa if he doesn't get signed and holds out until next draft. He would obviously still be given a chance but I think teams will be much more hesitant than this past draft with him.

I disagree. Even if he holds out a year, I don't think teams will be at all reluctant to draft Bosa. This isn't some moonshot demand like when Crabtree held out on San Fran b/c he wanted to be paid much higher than his slotted contract. Rather, all Bosa is asking for is what everyone other 3rd overall pick has asked for since the new CBA, and all the other teams will understand that. If he reentered the draft in 2017, I think there will be a line of teams that want him--I'd be stunned if he fell out of the top 5 (even if a team has to draft him "blind", see below).

Don't get me wrong--holding out a year will hurt his value some b/c teams won't be able to interview him, work him out or medically check him before drafting him in 2017, but imo, this contract thing won't make any team think twice about taking him.

 

[cdumler7]

I disagree. Even if he holds out a year, I don't think teams will be at all reluctant to draft Bosa. This isn't some moonshot demand like when Crabtree held out on San Fran b/c he wanted to be paid much higher than his slotted contract. Rather, all Bosa is asking for is what everyone other 3rd overall pick has asked for since the new CBA, and all the other teams will understand that. If he reentered the draft in 2017, I think there will be a line of teams that want him--I'd be stunned if he fell out of the top 5 (even if a team has to draft him "blind", see below).

Don't get me wrong--holding out a year will hurt his value some b/c teams won't be able to interview him, work him out or medically check him before drafting him in 2017, but imo, this contract thing won't make any team think twice about taking him.

I get that. And yes he would be drafted. I think some teams would be hesitant for possibly 2 reasons...

1) I am hearing that there is more to this story than what we have here. Before the draft his agent sent out a memo to teams possibly wanting to draft him of exactly what kind of contract demands he would make. It actually caused some teams to not want to draft him in the 1st round. Again these are rumors but ones that I take seriously because of who reported them. So it sounds like he is wanting more than what the typical 3rd overall pick usually gets.

2) A year out of football while not career ending is not always the easiest thing to come back from. Throw in teams cannot talk to him or his agent or see him work out any time leading up to the draft. They are drafting on the idea that he has stayed in shape and is the player he was before sitting out. Teams like to be risk free as much as possible and that kind of scenario adds a lot of risk to it. So for Bosa a year out means not only lost money for that year but also a drop in most likely draft value. I still think he would be taken somewhere in the teens but still that is a lot of lost money on his part.

My guess is he still gets signed at some point over the next couple of weeks and this conversation quickly becomes moot.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I get that. And yes he would be drafted. I think some teams would be hesitant for possibly 2 reasons...

1) I am hearing that there is more to this story than what we have here. Before the draft his agent sent out a memo to teams possibly wanting to draft him of exactly what kind of contract demands he would make. It actually caused some teams to not want to draft him in the 1st round. Again these are rumors but ones that I take seriously because of who reported them. So it sounds like he is wanting more than what the typical 3rd overall pick usually gets.

From all the reports out now, that's not true. No matter what his agent said prior to the draft, literally every single recent report from every major sporting news reporter says he isn't asking for anything unusual now.

My guess is he still gets signed at some point over the next couple of weeks and this conversation quickly becomes moot.

I agree. No way the team or the player lets such a small thing cost them a whole year.

 

[cdumler7]

From all the reports out now, that's not true. No matter what his agent said prior to the draft, literally every single recent report from every major sporting news reporter says he isn't asking for anything unusual now.

I agree. No way the team or the player lets such a small thing cost them a whole year.

Not every major sporting news reporter is saying that. Anyway we both agree the contract will get done so this whole conversation becomes moot very soon.

 

[PDay8810]

Where he should have been much sooner.

not till he showed he couldn't get double digit sacks

2015?....I don't think Dallas woulda been the only team to offer Hardy an opportunity.
2016?....not looking all that good

 

[Calm]

not till he showed he couldn't get double digit sacks

2015?....I don't think Dallas woulda been the only team to offer Hardy an opportunity.
2016?....not looking all that good

Point is, some people don't deserve the benefit of the doubt regardless of production. Greg Hardy is one of them.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Not every major sporting news reporter is saying that. Anyway we both agree the contract will get done so this whole conversation becomes moot very soon.

Then you'll have no problem pointing me to a recent report from a major sports reporter saying that Bosa is demanding something unusual--that the hangup is something other than the deferred bonus and offset issues.

 

[Manster7588]

Where he should have been much sooner.

Funny you bang on Hardy and Dallas, when your team had Jerry Sandusky and his antics were ignored for years. Remember if you live in a glass house.

 

[cdumler7]

Then you'll have no problem pointing me to a recent report from a major sports reporter saying that Bosa is demanding something unusual--that the hangup is something other than the deferred bonus and offset issues.

Benjamin Allbright is a good place to start.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I disagree. Even if he holds out a year, I don't think teams will be at all reluctant to draft Bosa. This isn't some moonshot demand like when Crabtree held out on San Fran b/c he wanted to be paid much higher than his slotted contract. Rather, all Bosa is asking for is what everyone other 3rd overall pick has asked for since the new CBA, and all the other teams will understand that. If he reentered the draft in 2017, I think there will be a line of teams that want him--I'd be stunned if he fell out of the top 5 (even if a team has to draft him "blind", see below).

Don't get me wrong--holding out a year will hurt his value some b/c teams won't be able to interview him, work him out or medically check him before drafting him in 2017, but imo, this contract thing won't make any team think twice about taking him.

To these points in bold...you did say they were your opinions so I have to take them at that level.

If he sits out a year and re-enters the draft, there will most certainly be a 1st round market for the kid because edge pass rushers are hard to find.

The contract thing...imo it will turn some teams off because now every one knows why he held out...all teams have the offset language, some will waive it, some won't, and not all teams pay the bonus in lump sum so those teams are not going to be too excited to draft him high in the 1st round. Maybe 8 to 10, but I can see him sliding to the middle of the 1st rd.

I said earlier I think it would be foolish for him to sit out a yr out of principle...I'm saying it again. A pro team is handing you $17.5 mil in a matter of 15-18 months...I don't care what other teams have done in this same draft slot...nobody else has gotten this much money in this draft slot either...take the damn money!

 

[Calm]

Funny you bang on Hardy and Dallas, when your team had Jerry Sandusky and his antics were ignored for years. Remember if you live in a glass house.

Because you know my thoughts on Sandusky, right?

 

[Cincyfan78]

After reading more about this, the Chargers simply need to pay him his bonus by the end of the year like every other top 5 pick, and include the off-set language that Bosa said he would agree to if the Bonus was paid.

Sitting out a year not only screws Bosa, but it screws SD since they lose that pick. It is best in everybody's interest to come to an agreement, and sooner rather than later.