Important Question for the Board #1

[Broncosr0k]

And I'll counter with Brock Osweiler having 4 scoring drives against the Raiders only to lose because all 4 scoring drives were field goals. All he needed was a measly 16 points at home, couldn't get it, and that loss nearly cost us home field advantage.

This proves my point further. Tebow managed 3 points AT HOME against the chiefs when a playoff berth was on the line. The chiefs power house scored 7. Needed a measly 5 points and that loss nearly cost us a playoff berth.

You mean like most young QBs do? Especially a guy a lot, if not most people said would struggle early in his career? Even the most ardent Tebow defender could see he wasn't day 1 starter ready early on. Despite that, he still managed to drag a terrible Broncos team to the playoffs.

The difference being most QBs drafted in the first are semi accurate and can get to the second progression. They can read the defense a little. Tebow never showed any of this and never improved. Even ignoring draft spot he was wildly inaccurate and if his first option wasn't open he tucked it and ran.

If Tebow could play or could improve someone would take him. The fact that he is sitting at home on Sunday's instead of at least backing up a QB should give you some hint. We have seen his ceiling.

To be honest, I want to see a better Manning or Osweiler in 2016. I think we lucked out a little this year. I would rather not go through another season of telling my defense to hold the other team to 17 or we will struggle to get that win. It leaves your margin razor thin. So again, if your point is that Tebow's terrible play is on par with the terrible play we saw this year and he should get a chance, it is kind of a ridiculous argument.

 

[megalodon30]

As for Tebow not improving, that's no longer an assumption. Tebow has proven through his inability to make another NFL squad that he hit his ceiling before skidding to a 1-4 finish.

I disagree. He hasn't really had a chance to show whether he's hit his ceiling or not. He didn't get a chance to show anything with the Jets. I will admit he was terrible in his short stint we NE, and he looked like a competent passer with Philly this preseason.

If he got another shot, maybe he'd fail. But until then, all I have to go off of is the 16 games he got with a terrible Denver team. And he far exceeded expectations by bringing them to the playoffs. That's evidence enough for me that Tebow had (and still does have) incredible potential. Will he ever meet it? We'll probably never know.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I disagree. He hasn't really had a chance to show whether he's hit his ceiling or not. He didn't get a chance to show anything with the Jets. I will admit he was terrible in his short stint we NE, and he looked like a competent passer with Philly this preseason.

If he got another shot, maybe he'd fail. But until then, all I have to go off of is the 16 games he got with a terrible Denver team. And he far exceeded expectations by bringing them to the playoffs. That's evidence enough for me that Tebow had (and still does have) incredible potential. Will he ever meet it? We'll probably never know.

Kyle Orton's first several games went well for Denver too. He also posted the same record over his last 5 Bronco starts that Tebow did in his last 5. Those 16 games were nice and all, but Tebow hit his ceiling in the middle of that span. Once defenses adapted, Tim was done.

Here's the thing with Tebow. The guy who drafted him decided he wasn't worth a roster spot. He put in a ton more work on his mechanics (more than any other young NFL QB ever had), was given a very long look by the Eagles and still didn't cut it. If Tebow was able to improve, he would have made the Eagles 53-man roster. And it's not just his accuracy. He can't read defenses to save his life, and has the retention of a mosquito. NFL coaches have come on record complaining how they always had to repeat things to Tebow over, and over, and over again, only to find he still didn't get it. His calling is as a broadcaster or missionary. He's not a pro level quarterback.

 

[megalodon30]

Well, I wouldn't say Tebow's first several games went well. He started 2-3. And Orton and Tebow may have had the same record over their last 5 games, but none of Orton's games were playoff games. That alone is enough for me to say Tebow was much better than Orton.

The guy who drafted him decided he wasn't worth a roster spot.

I have no idea what you mean by this. The guy who drafted him was Josh McDaniels. McDaniels never cut Tebow. I'm sure if McD wasn't a colossal screw-up in Denver, he'd have given Tebow an extended look as the starter. Would Tebow have failed? I can't say. But if I were a gambling man, I'd bet he'd go down fighting which is more than I can say for Orton. Or Cam Newton, for that matter.

 

[Southieinnc]

For your humble consideration - Could this Denver Broncos team - have won the Super Bowl with Tim Tebow as the starter?

ironically - this would have been the perfect team to run Tebow as a QB - with this defense, but I say yes to this question by saying even Springstein could have quarterbacked this Bronco team to a championship.

@AmericanTebowFan could probably answer that question for you. Personally, I just crapped my pants when I read this. Thanks for the laugh.....

 

[Manimal Sighting]

I disagree. He hasn't really had a chance to show whether he's hit his ceiling or not. He didn't get a chance to show anything with the Jets. I will admit he was terrible in his short stint we NE, and he looked like a competent passer with Philly this preseason.

If he got another shot, maybe he'd fail. But until then, all I have to go off of is the 16 games he got with a terrible Denver team. And he far exceeded expectations by bringing them to the playoffs. That's evidence enough for me that Tebow had (and still does have) incredible potential. Will he ever meet it? We'll probably never know.

Im with you on this. I don't think he was given a 'fair' shot but I also don't think he should have been given one. If im a GM im not going that route (building team around tebow). But at the same time you can't use the 'he's out of the league' argument. Is Ray Rice not an NFL rb? obviously different scenarios but you see the point

 

[Broncosr0k]

But at the same time you can't use the 'he's out of the league' argument. Is Ray Rice not an NFL rb? obviously different scenarios but you see the point

This league is so starved for talent that if a guy had talent he would be playing. Ray Rice was well into his decline before he decided to beat his wife.

I suppose Michael Sam was never given a chance. Or was he a flash in the pan in college and too much of a tweener at the NFL level?

 

[Broncos6482]

Is this a serious question? The answer is no. No, no, no, no no no no. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

First, we all saw what the Patriots did to Tebow and the Broncos, so there's no way the Broncos are winning that game. Second, Tebow got worse and worse as a starter the more games he got under his belt. Teams took away what he did well (mainly rolling to his left) and he couldn't pass accurately enough to compensate. In Tebow's last two regular season starts, he turned the ball over 4 times against the Bills (including a pick 6 and fumble 6 on back to back plays) and put up a whopping 3 points at home against a lousy Chiefs team with the playoffs on the line.

The Steelers playoff game was a combination of DT going off, injuries all over the Steelers defense, and Dick LeBeau not adjusting whatsoever. It was a fun win, but it was a fluke.

Tebow was a great guy, and he was exactly the kind of fiery leader this team needed to shake them out of the Kyle Orton doldrums, but there's a reason he's out of the league now. The Broncos rode him as absolutely far as he could possibly go.

 

[Manimal Sighting]

There is also a trend of rushing QBs getting 'figured out' and becoming less effective after a quick flash. As a ducks fan Im worried that will happen with Mariota

 

[megalodon30]

It was a fun win, but it was a fluke.

If it was a fluke, then all his other wins were flukes too. Granted, an argument could be made that some of them were flukey like the Bears game, but let's not pretend that Tebow didn't make some big plays. It wasn't like the defense was doing everything and that's the only reason we made the playoffs. There were a few dominant offensive performances too. The Raiders and Vikings games come to mind.

The Broncos rode him as absolutely far as he could possibly go.

Maybe, but as I stated earlier, that assumes Tebow would make no improvement. He's a young QB that still had/has a lot of growing to do. The only way to prove that Tebow hit his ceiling is if he got a true shot as a
#1 starting QB and failed. And he hasn't got that chance, and as big as fan as I am of his, even I can see it's not likely he'll get that chance.

It's my contention that at the very least, Tebow's tenure in Denver should have afforded him the opportunity to get a chance as a starter, but apparently NFL coaching staffs feel differently.

It was awesome while it lasted, I enjoyed every minute of it. I'll be a Tebow fan 'til the end. Guys an awesome person, an upstanding role model, and IMO a great QB. Maybe not a great passer, but certainly a great QB.

 

[Broncos6482]

If it was a fluke, then all his other wins were flukes too. Granted, an argument could be made that some of them were flukey like the Bears game, but let's not pretend that Tebow didn't make some big plays. It wasn't like the defense was doing everything and that's the only reason we made the playoffs. There were a few dominant offensive performances too. The Raiders and Vikings games come to mind.

I mean, pretty much all of his wins were flukes. Dolphins, I think Denver overcame the largest deficit ever in the final 3 minutes, or something like that (I don't remember the exact stat). Chiefs, Tebow completed only 2 passes in a win! Jets, took a defensive touchdown and a 95 yard drive at the end to win. Tebow passed for 104 yards on 21 attempts. Chargers, took 2 missed Chargers field goals and nearly all of overtime to win. Bears, it took the Bears going to prevent, two ridiculously long field goals by Prater, and Marion Barber running out of bounds AND fumbling in overtime to win. All of those are pretty flukey.

The Raiders game I think was more how they weren't prepared for the new offense we were running which allowed McGahee to run for 163 yards, plus the punt return touchdown by Eddie Royal (although Tebow did have a great day running). Really the Vikings game is the one exception, as I think that was Tebow's best game as a pro.

Maybe, but as I stated earlier, that assumes Tebow would make no improvement. He's a young QB that still had/has a lot of growing to do. The only way to prove that Tebow hit his ceiling is if he got a true shot as a
#1 starting QB and failed. And he hasn't got that chance, and as big as fan as I am of his, even I can see it's not likely he'll get that chance.

It's my contention that at the very least, Tebow's tenure in Denver should have afforded him the opportunity to get a chance as a starter, but apparently NFL coaching staffs feel differently.

Tebow has had plenty of chances, but he can't stick on a roster because he's just not very good. Hard worker, great guy, not an NFL quarterback. The NFL only cares about talent, and if Tebow was talented enough someone would pick him up. But when the best coach in the NFL brings you in for preseason and cuts you, and the craziest coach in the NFL who's all about revolutionizing the sport can't find a place for you on the team, it's time to admit that you're just not talented enough to make an NFL roster.

It was awesome while it lasted, I enjoyed every minute of it. I'll be a Tebow fan 'til the end. Guys an awesome person, an upstanding role model, and IMO a great QB. Maybe not a great passer, but certainly a great QB.

He's not a great qb, not even close to it. If he was he'd be in the NFL. He's a guy that came in, lit a fire under the team, made some plays, and maxed out. And frankly, it boggles my mind a little bit when people talk about how much fun or how awesome that season was. I think it's a result of fondly remembering the highs and forgetting the lows. Because for most Tebow games, the Broncos offense was one of the worst offenses I'd ever seen at a professional level. They were inept for 55 minutes. It also wasn't fun getting blown out by the Patriots twice, or getting blown out by the Bills, or losing at home to the Chiefs 7-3 with the playoffs on the line.

The Broncos got off to a great start with Tebow, but teams had started to figure him out, hence the 1-4 finish. There was another qb that the Broncos got off to a great start with, he went 6-0 to start his Broncos career, but then teams shut him down and he sucked until he was finally mercifully replaced and eventually released. The funny thing is, he's the guy that came back to Denver and beat the Tebow led Broncos 7-3 to end the 2011 regular season.

 

[megalodon30]

Dolphins, I think Denver overcame the largest deficit ever in the final 3 minutes, or something like that (I don't remember the exact stat).

Doesn't mean it was a fluke.

Chiefs, Tebow completed only 2 passes in a win!

And one of the two completions was a 56 yard TD that proved to be the winner. Like I said, let's not pretend Tebow didn't make some big plays.

Jets, took a defensive touchdown and a 95 yard drive at the end to win.

Was Tebow not the QB that led the 95 yard drive?

The Raiders game I think was more how they weren't prepared for the new offense

There was a quote from Tommy Kelly that basically said that the Raiders were preparing all week on the fact that Broncos would be running more read option and they still couldn't stop it. The quote was in Sports Illustrated, but I don't have that copy on me at the moment.

Tebow has had plenty of chances

I wouldn't consider being a special teamer with the Jets and getting a couple preseasons as plenty.

But when the best coach in the NFL brings you in for preseason and cuts you

That one I'll agree with. I already stated he was awful in New England.

the craziest coach in the NFL who's all about revolutionizing the sport can't find a place for you on the team

He looked much better in Philly, but you can only keep so many QBs on your roster. Kelly decided to go with Bradford and Sanchez. And of course the Eagles had an awful season. Would it have been any better with Tebow? Maybe not, but I like to think it would.

He's not a great qb, not even close to it.

Well, he certainly was in college. It's an undeniable fact that Tim Tebow is one of the all-time greatest quarterbacks in NCAA football. And IMO if you lead one of the worst NFL teams to the playoffs, you're a great QB.

There was another qb that the Broncos got off to a great start with, he went 6-0 to start his Broncos career

Kyle Orton was the anti-Tebow. A great passer, but the very definition of a mediocre quarterback.

To be honest though, to get back to the OP question, I'd be willing to bet that even Orton could have won the Super Bowl with this team. Basically any QB, even Tebow, would have won that game as long as they didn't turn it over.

 

[Broncos6482]

Doesn't mean it was a fluke.



And one of the two completions was a 56 yard TD that proved to be the winner. Like I said, let's not pretend Tebow didn't make some big plays.



Was Tebow not the QB that led the 95 yard drive?



There was a quote from Tommy Kelly that basically said that the Raiders were preparing all week on the fact that Broncos would be running more read option and they still couldn't stop it. The quote was in Sports Illustrated, but I don't have that copy on me at the moment.



I wouldn't consider being a special teamer with the Jets and getting a couple preseasons as plenty.



That one I'll agree with. I already stated he was awful in New England.



He looked much better in Philly, but you can only keep so many QBs on your roster. Kelly decided to go with Bradford and Sanchez. And of course the Eagles had an awful season. Would it have been any better with Tebow? Maybe not, but I like to think it would.



Well, he certainly was in college. It's an undeniable fact that Tim Tebow is one of the all-time greatest quarterbacks in NCAA football. And IMO if you lead one of the worst NFL teams to the playoffs, you're a great QB.



Kyle Orton was the anti-Tebow. A great passer, but the very definition of a mediocre quarterback.

To be honest though, to get back to the OP question, I'd be willing to bet that even Orton could have won the Super Bowl with this team. Basically any QB, even Tebow, would have won that game as long as they didn't turn it over.

I'm not pretending Tebow didn't make plays, in fact I said in my post that he made some plays, but let's not pretend like it's not flukey to win when you' only complete 2 passes in the entire game.

As for his chances, 3 teams gave him a chance to after the Broncos traded him, that's a lot more of a chance than most guys get. He wasn't good enough to take advantage of it.

Plenty of guys are great college quarterbacks, but that doesn't mean a hill of beans in the NFL. Eric Crouch was a Heisman Trophy winning qb in college, that doesn't mean he was set up to be a good NFL quarterback. The NFL is a different game and being great in college does not automatically translate to being great in the NFL.

Like I said, the NFL cares about talent. If Tebow had enough to help an NFL team, he'd be on a roster.

 

[randymon]

I disagree. He hasn't really had a chance to show whether he's hit his ceiling or not. He didn't get a chance to show anything with the Jets. I will admit he was terrible in his short stint we NE, and he looked like a competent passer with Philly this preseason.

If he got another shot, maybe he'd fail. But until then, all I have to go off of is the 16 games he got with a terrible Denver team. And he far exceeded expectations by bringing them to the playoffs. That's evidence enough for me that Tebow had (and still does have) incredible potential. Will he ever meet it? We'll probably never know.

You have got to be friggin kidding me! Even the most devout Christian who has a fair amount of football knowledge would recommend you get an exorcism because clearly your possessed by some Tebonic demon. Just stop please.Actually, do me a favor and post this on the NFL general board so you can enjoy those replies your going to receive. Jeez!

 

[megalodon30]

let's not pretend like it's not flukey to win when you' only complete 2 passes in the entire game.

Fair enough.

He wasn't good enough to take advantage of it.

It's hard to take advantage when you don't even get a chance to start.

being great in college does not automatically translate to being great in the NFL.

No, but to be fair, I never said Tebow was a great NFL QB. Just that he was a great QB. It takes a QB with greatness in them to lead a bad team to the playoffs. Whether they're a poor passer or not.

 

[Draft Crazy]

My answer to this question would be it all depends on how Tebow plays if he turns the ball over, NO! If he doesn't then YES!

 

[Broncos6482]

Fair enough.



It's hard to take advantage when you don't even get a chance to start.



No, but to be fair, I never said Tebow was a great NFL QB. Just that he was a great QB. It takes a QB with greatness in them to lead a bad team to the playoffs. Whether they're a poor passer or not.

There's plenty of tape out there on him, if he was so good why hasn't anyone given him the chance to start? I mean, do you think he's being blackballed or something? That teams will take a chance on the Greg Hardy's of the world, but not Tebow? If Tebow could play, if he could help a team win, someone would give him a chance.

To be fair, when we're talking about Tebow leading the Broncos to the Super Bowl, we're talking about him as an NFL quarterback. So when you say he's a great qb, it's pretty natural to assume you're still talking about him as an NFL qb. Because there's not a person on this board who would dispute that he was a great college qb. He most certainly was, one of the greatest ever. As for his time as an NFL quarterback, I'd say the vast majority of it was bad to awful, with a few plays of brilliance here and there. He never approached anything approximating greatness in the NFL.

 

[megalodon30]

I mean, do you think he's being blackballed or something?

Not literally. But I do think most teams that would possibly want to take a chance to groom Tebow (if there are any at all) are scared away by the fact that if their starter starts to struggle, pressure would be too great to play him, especially if he's not ready. And that might create a quasi-blackball.

As for his time as an NFL quarterback, I'd say the vast majority of it was bad to awful,

9-7 as a starter, so I disagree. Won more than he lost. I'd say the majority was pretty good. Plus he has a playoff win. There are a long list of NFL QBs that can't claim that.

He never approached anything approximating greatness in the NFL.

I don't know. I consider that win over the Steelers pretty great.

 

[Broncos6482]

Not literally. But I do think most teams that would possibly want to take a chance to groom Tebow (if there are any at all) are scared away by the fact that if their starter starts to struggle, pressure would be too great to play him, especially if he's not ready. And that might create a quasi-blackball.



9-7 as a starter, so I disagree. Won more than he lost. I'd say the majority was pretty good. Plus he has a playoff win. There are a long list of NFL QBs that can't claim that.



I don't know. I consider that win over the Steelers pretty great.

Winning and losing is a team stat. I know qb's get all the credit and all the blame, but unless you think Manning is still a good qb because he went 10-2 as a starter this year, then you can't use the 9-7 qb record for Tebow to prove he was any good.

And as I said before, Tebow was trending down. His stats were getting worse and the Broncos lost 4 of his final 5 starts.

You're right that the win over the Steelers was great, but Tebow's play wasn't great that day. He still completed fewer than half of his passes, and most of his completions were to DT who was running wide open. In fact, the play that beat the Steelers in overtime was mostly DT: any qb in the NFL could have made that throw against that coverage. DT turned it into a touchdown because he had a great stiff arm and then breakaway speed.

As for Tebow being quasi-blackballed, I don't buy it for a second. The fact that he couldn't catch on with the Patriots basically disproves that theory. As entrenched as Tom Brady is, Tebow could have been the backup to groom with zero pressure on the coach to ever put him in. Instead, Belichick decided to not waste a roster spot on him. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[randymon]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.