Official Name Debate Thread

[skinsdad62]

well i am from the south and i havent heard that term used . i lived 14 years in texas as well and i have never heard that term used .

and funny how an indian tribe is going to whine while calling white southerners "rednecks "

 

[gkekoa]

well i am from the south and i havent heard that term used . i lived 14 years in texas as well and i have never heard that term used .

and funny how an indian tribe is going to whine while calling white southerners "rednecks "

I was about to say the same thing Dad. How hypocritical is it for them to refer to somebody as a "redneck" but a word they created is considered a slur?

 

[Stymietee]

read this stymie . you change the name you lose the history period . it is a new franchise

now no more name calling . you dont like whats being said make an argument but personal attacks on other posters isnt allowed

it is in my visitors should read this thread

Just returning fire....I actually relish good clean banter, not my fault that reason escapes some people.

 

[skinsdad62]

Just returning fire....I actually relish good clean banter, not my fault that reason escapes some people.

personal attacks (i.e. calling people idiots ) is unacceptable here

 

[antrodemus]

I guess they'll be going after Jacksonville next...

 

[Stymietee]

personal attacks (i.e. calling people idiots ) is unacceptable here

OK......I'm good with the rules here!!! Ignorant is allowed, Idiot in return is not........got it!!!!!!!

 

[gkekoa]

OK......I'm good with the rules here!!! Ignorant is allowed, Idiot in return is not........got it!!!!!!!

Ignorant- the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Anybody who believes the word REDSKIN is offensive as the Washington trademark is IGNORANT. They are uneducated (origin of the word comes from the Indians), unaware (origin of the word comes the Indians), and uninformed (the team was named in honor of the heritage of the area, not to offend them).

So, Stymie, if you believe it's offensive...you truly are ignorant.

 

[skinsdad62]

OK......I'm good with the rules here!!! Ignorant is allowed, Idiot in return is not........got it!!!!!!!

exactly , see ignorant means you have the ability to learn and thus is more respectful

 

[Stymietee]

exactly , see ignorant means you have the ability to learn and thus is more respectful

WOW!!!! An idiot has the ability to learn as well, guess you're just gonna keep trying to defend this guy. BTW; semantics are important here, not in the formal sense but rather in the everyday use of words. Where one person would be less offended than another by the use of the same word, the reaction will be different in both cases. One would STILL be offended by its use, just less so than the other. Seems to me that anyone defending themselves here must either be you or by some miracle share your instinctive awareness as to where you would draw the line. At least admit that the personal attack was NOT started by me.

 

[Stymietee]

Ignorant- the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Anybody who believes the word REDSKIN is offensive as the Washington trademark is IGNORANT. They are uneducated (origin of the word comes from the Indians), unaware (origin of the word comes the Indians), and uninformed (the team was named in honor of the heritage of the area, not to offend them).

So, Stymie, if you believe it's offensive...you truly are ignorant.

The word comes from collecting and or receiving bounties for scalps of and by native Americans.

 

[skinsdad62]

WOW!!!! An idiot has the ability to learn as well, guess you're just gonna keep trying to defend this guy. BTW; semantics are important here, not in the formal sense but rather in the everyday use of words. Where one person would be less offended than another by the use of the same word, the reaction will be different in both cases. One would STILL be offended by its use, just less so than the other. Seems to me that anyone defending themselves here must either be you or by some miracle share your instinctive awareness as to where you would draw the line. At least admit that the personal attack was NOT started by me.

come on you cant tell the difference between the connotation of "idiot " as opposed to the connotation of some one being "ignorant " ?

Again the Smithsonian says the word originated from the Indians themselves . The Smithsonian isnt exactly a hotbed of disinformation

My question is how can you be a "redskins fan" and be against the name ? Once the name changes so does the history the nostaglia, and everything else . new name , new franchise .

how could you want that ?

you have dodged this since i 1st laid it out

and again most indians ARE NOT offended by it and a team in AZ which is 93 % Indian love the name . The Onieda nation , which a few crack pots , are complaining about the name still allow their own area high school team to be called redskins

you wait in a year or 2 you will see some donation made to the tribe and this will go on the back burner

this is and has been about a shakedown for money by race baiters and their allies

and once the fat cat guilt tripping so they feel good members of the media get the name changed they will abandon the indians plight in a hot minute

dont be among the saps that follow this "cause"

 

[Krusheasy]

come on you cant tell the difference between the connotation of "idiot " as opposed to the connotation of some one being "ignorant " ?

It might be easier for you to allow more leeway with conversations in this thread, similar to the smacktalk thread. But, whatever you choose should try and remain consistent.

I dont think you would be talking word connotations if someone told you ...

You may want to learn a thing or two about history of sport's teams before you open your ignorant mouth.

Again the Smithsonian says the word originated from the Indians themselves . The Smithsonian isnt exactly a hotbed of disinformation

This argument doesn't really work because the meaning of words change over time. For example ... the N word stems from the Latin word for black ... however the meaning has changed over time.

dont be among the saps that follow this "cause"

Nothing wrong with a good debate.

 

[skinsdad62]

good debate is fine

i just dont want name calling going on


as for the word thing the N word is meant to disparage blacks regardless of its origin . when that term is used their is no debate on what the purpose is

redskins was not in the beginning nor in 1936 or now i have never heard that word used in a way to slur someone .

now for stymie , he claims redskins fandom yet he only posts in this thread ? and to complain about the name and how he wants the traditions , history and nostalgia thrown away so we can "make more money in new merchandise "

he sidestepped the whole issue

the name changes and everything else goes with it the wizards arent the bullets . they have none of the traditions of the bullets none of the history they have an old jordan and a legacy of failure

the same will happen to the redskins , not fight song , no band , no nothing

it will be a new franchise

i cant see a "fan " advocating that when that is brought up












Nothing wrong with a good debate.[/QUOTE]

 

[gkekoa]

The word comes from collecting and or receiving bounties for scalps of and by native Americans.

Where did you get your source? I know that Wikipedia states that may be the origin; however, the head of linguistics at the Smithsonian Institute stated it originated with the Indians in their dealings with the "white man." You see...the Indians used it as a descriptor...so please use facts that are investigated because if you don't...I will hand your ass to you because I do research what I write. I enjoy the research.

Maybe you think "white power" is trying to change the name of Redskins to make it look nice. If that's the case, why don't you read speeches by Meskwaki Chief Big Thunder and Omaha Chief Big Elk where they refer to Redskin and Whiteskin.

Now let's use common sense. White, black, and red are all descriptors. They have no good/bad meaning...they are just descriptors.

If you think I'm making it up, read this (because I'm tired of educating some of you):
Language Log: The Origin of Redskin

 

[skinsdad62]

I guess this is where I'm supposed to fall in line and do what every other American sports writer is doing. I'm supposed to swear I won't ever write the words "Washington Redskins" anymore because it's racist and offensive and a slap in the face to all Native Americans who ever lived. Maybe it is.

NICKNAME CONTROVERSY
The Washington Redskins are facing more pressure to change the team name, which many consider derogatory to Native Americans.

• OTL: Nickname racist? Video

Also see:
• Vote: Should Redskins change name?
• New York tribe challenges Redskins with radio ad Video

I just don't quite know how to tell my father-in-law, a Blackfeet Indian. He owns a steak restaurant on the reservation near Browning, Mont. He has a hard time seeing the slap-in-the-face part.

"The whole issue is so silly to me," says Bob Burns, my wife's father and a bundle holder in the Blackfeet tribe. "The name just doesn't bother me much. It's an issue that shouldn't be an issue, not with all the problems we've got in this country."

And I definitely don't know how I'll tell the athletes at Wellpinit (Wash.) High School -- where the student body is 91.2 percent Native American -- that the "Redskins" name they wear proudly across their chests is insulting them. Because they have no idea.

"I've talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it," says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. "'Redskins' is not an insult to our kids. 'Wagon burners' is an insult. 'Prairie n-----s' is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But 'Redskins' is an honorable name we wear with pride. … In fact, I'd like to see somebody come up here and try to change it."

Boy, you try to help some people …

And it's not going to be easy telling the Kingston (Okla.) High School (57.7 percent Native American) Redskins that the name they've worn on their uniforms for 104 years has been a joke on them this whole time. Because they wear it with honor.

"We have two great tribes here," says Kingston assistant school superintendent Ron Whipkey, "the Chicasaw and the Choctaw. And not one member of those tribes has ever come to me or our school with a complaint. It is a prideful thing to them."

"It's a name that honors the people," says Kingston English teacher Brett Hayes, who is Choctaw. "The word 'Oklahoma' itself is Choctaw for 'red people.' The students here don't want it changed. To them, it seems like it's just people who have no connection with the Native American culture, people out there trying to draw attention to themselves.

"My kids are really afraid we're going to lose the Redskin name. They say to me, 'They're not going to take it from us, are they, Dad?'"

Too late. White America has spoken. You aren't offended, so we'll be offended for you.

Same story with the Red Mesa (Ariz.) High School Redskins. They wear the name with fierce pride. They absolutely don't see it as an insult. But what do they know? The student body is only 99.3 percent Native American.

And even though an Annenberg Public Policy Center poll found that 90 percent of Native Americans were not offended by the Redskins name, and even though linguists say the "redskins" word was first used by Native Americans themselves, and even though nobody on the Blackfeet side of my wife's family has ever had someone insult them with the word "redskin," it doesn't matter. There's no stopping a wave of PC-ness when it gets rolling.

I mean, when media stars like USA Today's Christine Brennan, a white woman from Ohio, and Peter King, a white man from Massachusetts, have jumped on a people's cause, there's no going back.

Besides, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said last week that if "even one person is offended" on this issue, we need to "listen."

One person?

[+] EnlargeKansas City Chiefs fan
Joe Robbins/Getty Images
Headdresses are traditionally worn on important occasions by Native Americans who have worked to earn each feather.
Got it. Guess we need to listen to people who are offended by the Kansas City Chiefs' name, too. That's one that offends my father-in-law. "You see some little guy wearing a headdress made of chicken feathers," he says, "painting his face up, making a mockery of us. I hate that. Those are things you earn."

One person? I know an atheist who is offended by religious names like the New Orleans Saints and Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. There are people who who don't think Ole Miss should be the Rebels. People who lost family to Hurricanes. There are people who think Wizards promotes paganism. Shall we listen to all of them?

I guess so.

Edmundo Macedo, vice president of ESPN's Stats & Information group, told ESPN ombudsman Robert Lipsyte that the term Redskins is abhorrent. "We would not accept anything similar as a team nickname if it were associated with any other ethnicity or any other race," Macedo said.

Oh, yes, we would.

In fact, ESPN and many other media companies cover the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, the Cleveland Indians and the Atlanta Braves without a single searing search of their social conscience.

Doesn't matter. The 81-year-old Washington Redskins name is falling, and everybody better get out of the way. For the majority of Native Americans who don't care, we'll care for them. For the Native Americans who haven't asked for help, we're glad to give it to them.

Trust us. We know what's best. We'll take this away for your own good, and put up barriers that protect you from ever being harmed again.

Kind of like a reservation.

RECOMMEND45KTWEET1KEMAILPRINTInsiderSUBSCRIBE

Rick Reilly | email

here you go stymie

 

[gkekoa]

Dad...you and I are taking the wrong approach here apparently. We aren't doing the liberal whiny bitch thing others do. Let me translate it to liberalease:

You are a racist and can't understand because of bitch power.

 

[Krusheasy]

and this is why I want to keep all of this stuff in one thread ....

.
here you go stymie

thanksgiving dinner is going to be awkward at the Reilly household

8m Yeesh. RT @Deadspin: Rick Reilly's American Indian father-in-law says Reilly misquoted him on Redskins name: http://deadsp.in/5BhVzQC

 

[Krusheasy]

We aren't doing the liberal whiny bitch thing others do.

Can't we have a civil conversation without all this stuff ?

 

[gkekoa]

Can't we have a civil conversation without all this stuff ?

We should be able to; however, how many times do I have to post the evidence that it's not offensive?

People obviously can't read...so I tried to speak their language.

 

[Krusheasy]

how many times do I have to post the evidence that it's not offensive?

People obviously can't read...so I tried to speak their language.

It sounds like you and Dad have already made up your minds & decided to burry you heads in the sand & are not willing to consider other perspectives ... such as the one below.

1h How the debate over "Redskins" is like the debate over "****er": http://deadsp.in/iC8mcNg

Personally ... I do NOT feel very strong one way OR the other any more.

I LOVE this team because it reminds me of some great memories I shared with my mother at RFK as a kid before she left this Earth.

Despite what Dad says ... watching this team play, no matter the name, will still bring me those same feelings.