9ers trade for CB

[jakedog56]

What don't you get about it? One is suspended for breaking the law, which is considered a misdemeanor offense, the other is for cheating. I do not disagree that DUI's need to be punished harder. The NFL does not disagree either as they are taking to steps to crack down on it, especially in the wake of the Josh Brent fiasco. The rules are what they are for now. PED's give a player a competitive advantage. Obviously this an extreme example, but how would you like to play poker against someone who has all four aces in his back pocket? Cheating is cheating, and it ruins the game. There is no way to justify it as ok just because someone else does something, off the field, that could potentially hurt someone. What Dobbs did was not ok, just as it was not ok for your best player to do the same thing.

According to Harbaugh and many 9er trolls, cheating is cheating. I personally don't care if it is on the field and about the game or in life. DUIs, PEDs, controlled substances, assault, breaking marriage vows, etc. etc. are all forms of cheating. The fact that Harbaugh can act all holier than thou about it is ridiculous. Both he and the 9ers organization have just as many skeltons in the closet as anyone else.

Also (in reference to earlier in the thread), it is laughable that you guys are whining about the verbal "threats of physical violence" by Seahawks players against Harbaugh when they are nothing more than offhand comments venting their dislike. I don't condone them but I also don't take them seriously. I mean, it is not like they broke into a media room and physically attacked an announcer, hitting him in the head and breaking their own hand in the process like Harbaugh did!!

Face it Suh- You are scrambling around, doing everything you can to try and argue that the Seahawks transgressions are far worse than the 9ers trangressions. It is a lame attempt to try and make yourself feel superior about yourself and your team as opposed to the "lowly scum" that you view the Seahawks as being. You are doing it in a much more subtle fashion than the idiot-trolls that infested the ESPN boards, but you are still doing it. This is the Seahawks board and we like our team and we don't like the 9ers. Nothing you can say is going to change our minds.

 

[NinerSickness]

You are scrambling around, doing everything you can to try and argue that the Seahawks transgressions are far worse than the 9ers trangressions.

The Seahawks' transgressions are worse than the 49ers' so-called "transgressions." Far, far worse. Seattle has had 6 players suspended for PED useage under carroll. 4 of those players are still with the team. A 7th player (Sherman) got off on a BS technicality but still tested positive for something banned.

You can't say it's wrong for Trent Baalke (not Harbaugh) to sign a former transgressor out of one side of your mouth without saying it was wrong for Seattle not to have cut their transgressors. Seattle had (has?) a problem with PED useage in their ranks. The 49ers gave a guy who's been caught before a 2nd chance (in the preseason mind you) and it's not even a lock he'll make the team.

The only player caught using PEDs on the Niners was a backup ILB whose useage was discovered after the season, and the 49ers didn't bring him back. I'm not going to say the Seahawks' 2012 season is tainted or something like the Patriots' chrating run in the early '00's; both teams start 2013 at zero. But you can't say that the signing of a guy who's been suspended for PEDs is anywhere near as bad as what's been happening in Seattle.

 

[jarrod49]

The Seahawks' transgressions are worse than the 49ers' so-called "transgressions." Far, far worse. Seattle has had 6 players suspended for PED useage under carroll. 4 of those players are still with the team. A 7th player (Sherman) got off on a BS technicality but still tested positive for something banned.

You can't say it's wrong for Trent Baalke (not Harbaugh) to sign a former transgressor out of one side of your mouth without saying it was wrong for Seattle not to have cut their transgressors. Seattle had (has?) a problem with PED useage in their ranks. The 49ers gave a guy who's been caught before a 2nd chance (in the preseason mind you) and it's not even a lock he'll make the team.

The only player caught using PEDs on the Niners was a backup ILB whose useage was discovered after the season, and the 49ers didn't bring him back. I'm not going to say the Seahawks' 2012 season is tainted or something like the Patriots' chrating run in the early '00's; both teams start 2013 at zero. But you can't say that the signing of a guy who's been suspended for PEDs is anywhere near as bad as what's been happening in Seattle.

How dare you use logic when talking to the seahawk fans? They are like parents whose child commited a crime, there is no way my little boy did that, he is a good boy and has never been in trouble!!

 

[NinerSickness]

How dare you use logic when talking to the seahawk fans? They are like parents whose child commited a crime, there is no way my little boy did that, he is a good boy and has never been in trouble!!

This is just piling on. Save that for the smack talk thread.

 

[jakedog56]

I say bs to that. Everyone has a history and we have been over and over the fact that you guys want to sit here and cry about the integrity of "the game" and say that anything that hurts "the game" is relevant to the conversation but you push aside life in general.

I am stating that the importance of the game is secondary to the importance of life in general and the transgressions that the 9ers personal and fans have had in their lives is just as "bad" (or good) as the Seahawks personal and their fans (or any other teams for that matter).

In addition, I think that your "far, far worse" statement is ridiculous on so many levels. I have already gone over the fact that there is zero proof that adderall is a masking agent for any steroids or HGH (again, look at actual medical studies and the USFDA and their European counterpart instead of just looking at internet rumors. While I have never taken it, everything that I read indicates that it is a rather mild stimulant which I would equate to taking some cross-tops during finals weeks back in my college days.

Again, you guys are not going to suddenly convince us that the Seahawks are a great evil and the 9ers are a shining beacon of everything that is good, so I am starting to wonder what your purpose here is. Do you really need our agreement on this subject? Would it make you feel better about yourself?

 

[octagondd]

What don't you get about it? One is suspended for breaking the law, which is considered a misdemeanor offense, the other is for cheating. I do not disagree that DUI's need to be punished harder. The NFL does not disagree either as they are taking to steps to crack down on it, especially in the wake of the Josh Brent fiasco. The rules are what they are for now. PED's give a player a competitive advantage. Obviously this an extreme example, but how would you like to play poker against someone who has all four aces in his back pocket? Cheating is cheating, and it ruins the game. There is no way to justify it as ok just because someone else does something, off the field, that could potentially hurt someone. What Dobbs did was not ok, just as it was not ok for your best player to do the same thing.

The NFL needs to step up its penalties for off field issues not because this involved a 9er, but because the NFL's representatives, the players and staff, become national and sometimes international news when these things happen. This stains the franchise and NFL brand. Also, some of these issues put real humans at risk and that alone is more important than taking a supplement to improve your performance in a GAME. I could give a rat's ass about a game, even the Super Bowl, over the safety of my family or any human's life.

 

[Jikkle]

Unfortunately we all know the NFL is looking out for itself and the reason it's harsher on PEDs than DUIs is simply because PEDs has an impact on the actual game and thus could do far more harm to the brand and thus the money it rakes it. Outside troubles like DUIs and arrests aren't good for the league but we're way more unlikely not to watch the NFL if we believe it's full of cheaters than if it's full of guys with DUIs.

Also I do believe part of it is the NFL looks at it is the player is/should/hopefully being punished by the court system so they don't need to pile on even more punishment.

Clearly they are going to have to be harsher with their own punishment because they have way too many knuckleheads getting into trouble so they have to do something to curb these guys and hit it where it hurts in the wallet.

 

[octagondd]

The Seahawks' transgressions are worse than the 49ers' so-called "transgressions." Far, far worse. Seattle has had 6 players suspended for PED useage under carroll. 4 of those players are still with the team. A 7th player (Sherman) got off on a BS technicality but still tested positive for something banned.

You can't say it's wrong for Trent Baalke (not Harbaugh) to sign a former transgressor out of one side of your mouth without saying it was wrong for Seattle not to have cut their transgressors. Seattle had (has?) a problem with PED useage in their ranks. The 49ers gave a guy who's been caught before a 2nd chance (in the preseason mind you) and it's not even a lock he'll make the team.

The only player caught using PEDs on the Niners was a backup ILB whose useage was discovered after the season, and the 49ers didn't bring him back. I'm not going to say the Seahawks' 2012 season is tainted or something like the Patriots' chrating run in the early '00's; both teams start 2013 at zero. But you can't say that the signing of a guy who's been suspended for PEDs is anywhere near as bad as what's been happening in Seattle.

I agree, the Hawks have had more suspensions, but the Hawks have not proclaimed to be above reproach. If you want to characterize that as an organization that supports cheating, then that is your opinion, but I guarantee PC has never asked anyone to do anything that will get them suspended, or injure someone else. No coach would. Players will do what they will do and they will suffer the consequences. You should quietly love that our players are getting themselves suspended and not be so defensive.

Please see the rest of the thread regarding your deflection of the Baalke issue. It is one or the other, Harbaugh is a hippocrite or your GM and coach do not see eye to eye about basic organizational beliefs, ie being above reproach. And again, our organization did not say it was above reproach and then brought in a player who has had some issues that do not represent that ideal, so why should the Hawks cut someone if they have not stated that as part of the philosophy of the organization?

 

[DunceKaep]

The Seahawks' transgressions are worse than the 49ers' so-called "transgressions."

The only player caught using PEDs on the Niners was a backup ILB whose useage was discovered after the season, and the 49ers didn't bring him back.

I can't believe that you think Larry Grant was not brought back because he used PED's.
Larry Grant happened to get caught, but he was not brought back because he didn't fit into their plans.
He is not good enough to play on your superior Defense, which is loaded with talent, NOT because he got caught using PED's.

 

[octagondd]

Unfortunately we all know the NFL is looking out for itself and the reason it's harsher on PEDs than DUIs is simply because PEDs has an impact on the actual game and thus could do far more harm to the brand and thus the money it rakes it. Outside troubles like DUIs and arrests aren't good for the league but we're way more unlikely not to watch the NFL if we believe it's full of cheaters than if it's full of guys with DUIs.

Also I do believe part of it is the NFL looks at it is the player is/should/hopefully being punished by the court system so they don't need to pile on even more punishment.

Clearly they are going to have to be harsher with their own punishment because they have way too many knuckleheads getting into trouble so they have to do something to curb these guys and hit it where it hurts in the wallet.

I see your point that the NFL sees the fans as just numbers and the fans won't care about human life more than a game. That part is sad, but the NFL should also treat its employees like any business would. If you miss work because of a transgression, then you may be fired, or in the case of the NFL, heavily fined, suspended or banned.

 

[NinerSickness]

I say bs to that. Everyone has a history

Stop right there. This is a non-sequitur. Everyone having a history doesn't mean all transgressions are equal nor that the sum of any team's transgressions equals that of any other team.

I have already gone over the fact that there is zero proof that adderall is a masking agent for any steroids or HGH

It's still banned. That makes this non-sequitur #2.

 

[NinerSickness]

Please see the rest of the thread regarding your deflection of the Baalke issue. It is one or the other, Harbaugh is a hippocrite or your GM and coach do not see eye to eye about basic organizational beliefs, ie being above reproach.

Or Baalke doesn't equate signing a former PED user to having an institutional problem with PED useage.

 

[NinerSickness]

I can't believe that you think Larry Grant was not brought back because he used PED's.
Larry Grant happened to get caught, but he was not brought back because he didn't fit into their plans.
He is not good enough to play on your superior Defense, which is loaded with talent, NOT because he got caught using PED's.

I didn't say that was the only reason he wasn't brought back; all I said was that he was suspended after the season, and he never returned to the team.

 

[jakedog56]

You believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Everyone has skeltons in the closet and there is nothing that you can ever say to convince me that the 9ers pasts are any more or less damning than any other team in the league.

Also, your statement regarding Sherman getting off on a technicality is again bs (and a "non-sequitur" from you). The tester screwed up and even a hater like yourself has to admit that there is a strong possiblity that the sample was tainted. He used a different cup, that was opened and ALREADY USED to contain the sample from the broken cup that he gave Sherman. You are running on a "guilty until proven innocent" bias because it was a Seahawk in this scenerio but I would bet that you would give the benefit of the doubt to a 9er player in the same situation.

 

[NinerSickness]

You believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Everyone has skeltons in the closet and there is nothing that you can ever say to convince me that the 9ers pasts are any more or less damning than any other team in the league.

Well I guess everything is nothing and nothing is everything. Because apparently everyone "has skeletons in the closet" that should mean nobody can say anything against anyone else's behaviour. I'm sure you've never been indignant about anything that's ever happened to you because it's all the same & everyone has those skeletons.

Also, your statement regarding Sherman getting off on a technicality is again bs (and a "non-sequitur" from you). The tester screwed up and even a hater like yourself has to admit that there is a strong possiblity that the sample was tainted. He used a different cup, that was opened and ALREADY USED to contain the sample from the broken cup that he gave Sherman. You are running on a "guilty until proven innocent" bias because it was a Seahawk in this scenerio but I would bet that you would give the benefit of the doubt to a 9er player in the same situation.

1. When it comes to PEDs, I always think guilty until proven innocent. I'm not a court of law. I believe in stereotypes. They're stereotypes for a reason. And if you're a pro' athlete who tests positive for a banned substance, I'm going to assume you're guilty unless I become a juror in a lawsuit.

2. Do you understand the concept of a non-sequitur? I'm seriously asking because I was talking about how many people were suspended for PED useage and added to that list a name of someone who tested positive for PEDs but got off on a technicality. A non-sequitur would've been if I mentioned a guy who tested positive for marijuana or said he was arrested for a DUI or something.

3. Sherman got off because the cup had a hole in it. So because the cup had a hole, I guess some PED must have jumped off of the bottom of the urinal into the hole in the cup and that's how you can explain his sample testing positive. This is the definition of getting off on a technicality. It's the PED equivalent of a guy who knows his rights getting off on a conviction because the arresting officer didn't read them to him.

 

[jakedog56]

Well I guess everything is nothing and nothing is everything. Because apparently everyone "has skeletons in the closet" that should mean nobody can say anything against anyone else's behaviour. I'm sure you've never been indignant about anything that's ever happened to you because it's all the same & everyone has those skeletons. .

Not exactly, but for you or I to sit here on a message board and make assumptions based on situations that we know very little about is just plain ignorant. You are quite allowed to do it, but it does not make you correct.

1. When it comes to PEDs, I always think guilty until proven innocent. I'm not a court of law. I believe in stereotypes. They're stereotypes for a reason. And if you're a pro' athlete who tests positive for a banned substance, I'm going to assume you're guilty unless I become a juror in a lawsuit.

2. Do you understand the concept of a non-sequitur? I'm seriously asking because I was talking about how many people were suspended for PED useage and added to that list a name of someone who tested positive for PEDs but got off on a technicality. A non-sequitur would've been if I mentioned a guy who tested positive for marijuana or said he was arrested for a DUI or something.

3. Sherman got off because the cup had a hole in it. So because the cup had a hole, I guess some PED must have jumped off of the bottom of the urinal into the hole in the cup and that's how you can explain his sample testing positive. This is the definition of getting off on a technicality. It's the PED equivalent of a guy who knows his rights getting off on a conviction because the arresting officer didn't read them to him.

Yes, I know what non-sequiter means. You are convicting people without evidence. It is rather fascist in my opinion. I won't delve into it further as I have already stated my case.

To conclude:

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did. [winks at Ninersickness] But you can't hold a whole team responsible for the behavior of a few, sick perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole system? And if the whole system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our national institutions in general? I put it to you, Ninersickness: isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
[Leads the Seahawks out of the hearing, all humming the Star-Spangled Banner]

 

[NinerSickness]

You are convicting people without evidence. It is rather fascist in my opinion.

Hold on... a positive test isn't evidence?

 

[jakedog56]

Hold on... a positive test isn't evidence?

There was a hole in the cup that Sherman used for his sample. The tester then used a PREVIOUSLY USED CUP to transfer the sample into.

So you are stating that you believe that there is NO POSSIBILITY that the PREVIOUSLY USED CUP could have contained a tainted sample that could have caused the incorrect results??

I state again, I wish that I could get the 9er trolls in a court of law because they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[NinerSickness]

There was a hole in the cup that Sherman used for his sample. The tester then used a PREVIOUSLY USED CUP to transfer the sample into.

It wasn't a previously used cup. The guy didn't just have a used pee-cup lying around. People tend to throw away cups that have been emptied of urine. The seal of the 2nd cup was broken. How else would he get the first cup into the 2nd one without breaking the seal?

Unless you're going to argue that he had a cup lying around that used to have piss in it, one has to admit that he got off on a technicality.

 

[jakedog56]

It wasn't a previously used cup. The guy didn't just have a used pee-cup lying around. People tend to throw away cups that have been emptied of urine. The seal of the 2nd cup was broken. How else would he get the first cup into the 2nd one without breaking the seal?

Unless you're going to argue that he had a cup lying around that used to have piss in it, one has to admit that he got off on a technicality.

The cup was ALREADY OPENED BEFORE TRANSFERING THE SAMPLE and therefore used (seal broken = used test cup by definition). We (that is both YOU and ME) have NO IDEA if that cup had urine it previously or not. That information was never released.

Again, your "guilty until proven innocent" assumptons are incorrect and do not hold up against the evidence. You can assume otherwise if you want but it gets you nowhere. Sherman has already been exonerated by the NFL and if they would have tried to suspend him he would have won the resulting appeal and/or lawsuit based on this information.