9ers trade for CB

[NinerSickness]

All that we know is that it was previously opened (the tester, Sherman, and the NFL all agreed that the seal was broken before it was used for the transfer, hence it was "used" by definition but whether at it had actually been physically used or not is not defined to the public.)

You are making assumptions and asuming that they are facts.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking the side of something 10,000 times more likely than the bull shit scenario lawyers can use to get his test overturned. Of course it was open before transferring the 1st cup into the 2nd; IT WOULD BE PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PUT THE 1ST CUP INTO THE 2ND IF THE SEAL WEREN'T BROKEN! I don't need a friggn' video tape of the pee test to take the stance that he got off on a technicality.

[YOUTUBE]WoLoHP-WRg4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[NinerSickness]

For the full one:

 

[jakedog56]

You are missing the point. Yes, you have to break the seal to transfer the sample but all of the reports seem to indicate that the seal was already broken BEFORE the incident occured.

Again, we don't have enough facts to reach a firm conclusion. We would need insider information to shift through to situation and come to an agreement on this subject and we just are not going to get this.

Due to security controls, I can't see your links at the moment. I will have to see what you are refering to later.

 

[NinerSickness]

Again, we don't have enough facts to reach a firm conclusion.

That doesn't work on me because I'm not a jury. I'm a dude with a brain. The POSSIBLE scenario of a used pee cup just sitting around that just so happened to have been used by another player who used PEDs & the pee residue seeping into Sherman's sample to make it a positive test is f'ing ridiculous. It might be enough in court, but it's not enough to convince me Sherman is the victim of some astronomically unlikely coincidence. I don't have to see the video tape of Sherman pissing with the piss tester showing 2 forms of government ID and 4 of my buddies there watching & Niel taking notes w/ a cop behind 'em & Sherman's grandma taking pictures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoLoHP-WRg4]Dave Chappelle going HAM in Court - YouTube

 

[Screamin12th]

omg 9er fan still pissed off i see. Truth of the matter is this. Sherman played better after the test. So if i was a 49er i would be screaming for him to continue to use it because he wasn't as good then. LMAO

 

[NinerFan52]

You are missing the point. Yes, you have to break the seal to transfer the sample but all of the reports seem to indicate that the seal was already broken BEFORE the incident occured.

Again, we don't have enough facts to reach a firm conclusion. We would need insider information to shift through to situation and come to an agreement on this subject and we just are not going to get this.

Due to security controls, I can't see your links at the moment. I will have to see what you are refering to later.

Let me ask you this Jake, if you had to guess whether he took PEDs or not, and were going to be given a prize if you guessed correct, let say a million dollars, what would your guess be?

 

[fastforward]

The link I provided had nothing to do with the Sherman situation. I was only pointing out that Von Miller is now having similar issues in regards to procedure and is protesting his suspension.

There is absolutely no statement regarding as to whether or not the 2nd cup used for transfering was used before or not. All that we know is that it was previously opened (the tester, Sherman, and the NFL all agreed that the seal was broken before it was used for the transfer, hence it was "used" by definition but whether at it had actually been physically used or not is not defined to the public.)

You are making assumptions and asuming that they are facts.

This is your post:

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3466151-post65.html

This is your link:

Miller case once again raises questions about sample collection | ProFootballTalk

This is the 5th paragraph of that link:

"Later in 2012, Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman secured a reversal of a suspension because the sample collector allowed Sherman to transfer the contents of a leaking cup to a second cup, which the collector failed to mention in his official report."

This is the link from that paragraph:

Leaking cup helped Sherman avoid suspension | ProFootballTalk

This is the 6th paragraph of that link:

"The outcome is indeed fairly narrow and specific, given that collection cups rarely leak. When they do, the collector needs to document the incident, transfer the contents to a new, clean cup, and ensure that a clear chain of custody is established. Here, Cook’s failure to include the incident in his report resulted in Sherman’s appeal prevailing."

Now quit with the BS.

 

[octagondd]

This is your post:

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/3466151-post65.html

This is your link:

Miller case once again raises questions about sample collection | ProFootballTalk

This is the 5th paragraph of that link:

"Later in 2012, Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman secured a reversal of a suspension because the sample collector allowed Sherman to transfer the contents of a leaking cup to a second cup, which the collector failed to mention in his official report."

This is the link from that paragraph:

Leaking cup helped Sherman avoid suspension | ProFootballTalk

This is the 6th paragraph of that link:

"The outcome is indeed fairly narrow and specific, given that collection cups rarely leak. When they do, the collector needs to document the incident, transfer the contents to a new, clean cup, and ensure that a clear chain of custody is established. Here, Cook’s failure to include the incident in his report resulted in Sherman’s appeal prevailing."

Now quit with the BS.

You forgot to quote the REASON for the 6th paragraph, and that was in the 5th paragraph.

"Consequently, Wallace found that Sherman proved that an error occurred in the collection process, and that the NFL had failed to show that the departures did not materially affect the validity of the positive test result."

Here is the actual quote from the judge himself from the link in that article.

"In this case, after weighing the differing testimonies of the only two people with first-hand knowledge, Mr. Sherman and Mr. (Mark) Cook (the tester), I do not believe the burden has been met that the departures, especially in the actual collection of the sample, did not materially affect the validity of the positive test."

Do you know how the judicial system works? Innocence is assumed. The burden is on the prosecution. If you are saying you don't care about the judicial system and only if he actually did it or not, then speculate away. Did you ever speculate that the 2nd cup used might have been Brandon Browner's previously used cup. It seems far fetched, but not out of the realm of possiblity. What if he had Brandon Browner's piss on his gloves when he transferred Sherman's sample to the other cup? That is the point of chain of custody, to protect the person being tested from outside interference. So the judge can't decide who's story is true and bases his decision on the only agreeable facts, the cup was leaking and the tester did not think it important to write that down, even though it explicitly states he must write down anything out of the ordinary in the collection process.

 

[fastforward]

@octagondd, if you had read what I had posted earlier in the thread you would know that I completely agree with the decision to invalidate the test, throw out the result, and take no action against Sherman. The procedure and documentation wasn't correctly and completely carried out so he's in the clear. I'm not attacking the Seahawks as an organisation, Pete Carroll, Richard Sherman, the Seahawks fan base in general, or the person who incorrectly administered the test.

I'm not forgetting anything. I acknowledge both articles in their entirety.

Bottom line: If the 2nd cup contained any trace from someone else then the sample would show the DNA of more than 1 person. If the sample tested by the laboratory was contaminated by 'the 2nd use of once-only gloves' the sample would show the DNA of more than 1 person. If this were the case it would have shown up and the case would have been dropped. If you want to say that's an assumption then 'hey, whatever!'

Sherman got off because the documentation wasn't an accurate and complete log of events. jakedog56 says it was because of something else. jakedog56 provided a link that mentions Sherman then said that link had nothing to do with Sherman.

 

[fastforward]

Nice job of making it sound as if the appeal was dealt with by the courts - 'judicial system', 'Innocence is assumed', 'burden is on the prosecution', 'the judge'.

This was a work-place appeal system. It was conducted by former NFL executive Bob Wallace.

Richard Sherman of Seattle Seahawks wins appeal, won't be suspended - ESPN

Bob Wallace

 

[NinerSickness]

omg 9er fan still pissed off i see. Truth of the matter is this. Sherman played better after the test. So if i was a 49er i would be screaming for him to continue to use it because he wasn't as good then. LMAO

Terrific logic there.

I'm not posting this stuff out of anger; I'm posting it for the sake of clarity. Sherman cheated & got off on a technicality.

 

[octagondd]

I thought you had said so earlier, but was unsure why the response to jakedog as BS. Simple mis-read on my part. Apologies.

Not sure if they test the samples for DNA since I think there is a low chance of enough DNA being available to confirm identity. The 2010 policy I found online does not say anything about ID DNA testing. If the procurement and chain of custody are done properly, there should be no concern over ID of specimen.

 

[octagondd]

Nice job of making it sound as if the appeal was dealt with by the courts - 'judicial system', 'Innocence is assumed', 'burden is on the prosecution', 'the judge'.

This was a work-place appeal system. It was conducted by former NFL executive Bob Wallace.

Richard Sherman of Seattle Seahawks wins appeal, won't be suspended - ESPN

Bob Wallace

a Work-place appeal system is an agreed upon judicial system. If you read the summary of the case, the judge (a lawyer with familiarity with the NFL) states a couple times the burden was on the NFL (the prosecution). Innocence is assumed if the burden is on the NFL.

Just because it is not a court of state or federal law, does not mean it is not the same.

I can't believe we are still talking about this.

Good Luck and enjoy the season.

 

[fastforward]

@octagondd, we're good. It's just frustration on everyone's part...mine included. I have no malice towards you or your team. Good luck to you and you team on 14 occasions this year.

 

[octagondd]

@octagondd, we're good. It's just frustration on everyone's part...mine included. I have no malice towards you or your team. Good luck to you and you team on 14 occasions this year.

 

[jakedog56]

jakedog56 provided a link that mentions Sherman then said that link had nothing to do with Sherman.

Did you read what I stated regarding this?? This is the 2nd time you have brought this up but I have already stated that I only provided that link to mention that Von Miller was now having similar issues. I also already stated that it has nothing to do with the Sherman situation. Why do you keep thinking that it does or should have?

 

[fastforward]

Did you read what I stated regarding this?? This is the 2nd time you have brought this up but I have already stated that I only provided that link to mention that Von Miller was now having similar issues. I also already stated that it has nothing to do with the Sherman situation. Why do you keep thinking that it does or should have?

Miller was having similar issues? Similar to what? Similar to 'the Sherman situation'? How can the link that you provided - you know...the 1 that talks about Miller's situation and Sherman's situation - have nothing to do with 'the Sherman situation'.

Why you brought it up is irrelevant. You can't bring up an article to support your case and expect people to accept the part that you like but not the part that you don't.

The fact that Harbaugh can act all holier than thou about it is ridiculous. Both he and the 9ers organization have just as many skeltons in the closet as anyone else.

You believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Everyone has skeltons in the closet and there is nothing that you can ever say to convince me that the 9ers pasts are any more or less damning than any other team in the league.

Not exactly, but for you or I to sit here on a message board and make assumptions based on situations that we know very little about is just plain ignorant. You are quite allowed to do it, but it does not make you correct.

Again, you all can think whatever you want but it is nothing but opinion and speculation.

I am trying to stick to the facts. People on the internet don't seem to like that, but that is what I am basing this discussion on. Deal with it.

You make assumptions about another team's skeletons. Next you say evidence won't convince you. Your follow up is to say that someone else is making assumptions and that doing so is ignorant. Then you say you're all about the facts. You say Sherman's leaking cup and Miller diluting his sample are similar issues then deny that this in any way mentions Sherman.

I just hope people can see you for what you are.

 

[jakedog56]

Miller was having similar issues? Similar to what? Similar to 'the Sherman situation'? How can the link that you provided - you know...the 1 that talks about Miller's situation and Sherman's situation - have nothing to do with 'the Sherman situation'.

Why you brought it up is irrelevant. You can't bring up an article to support your case and expect people to accept the part that you like but not the part that you don't.

You make assumptions about another team's skeletons. Next you say evidence won't convince you. Your follow up is to say that someone else is making assumptions and that doing so is ignorant. Then you say you're all about the facts. You say Sherman's leaking cup and Miller diluting his sample are similar issues then deny that this in any way mentions Sherman.

I just hope people can see you for what you are.

You just can't let go of the Miller link that I posted can you??

Again, I posted the article only to state that Miller was also protesting his suspension due to testing irregularities, I made no attempt to link the situations other than that.
In addition, I posted this immediately when the article was placed on the net. Once new information became available, it became quite clear that the situations were not the same. That is why Miller actually had his suspension bumped up 6 games while Sherman had his protest upheld. If anything it should show that the NFL is quite willing to pursue the situation if they feel that there is anything to pursue. In Sherman's case this only solidifies his exoneration.
Please let it go already!! It is tiring explaining to you over and over again that I realize that the situations are not as simular as they originally appeared to be.

And Yes, I did make gross generalizations when I am refering to the human race as an overall in stating that everyone has a past and they all have problems in them, and yes I still stand by that statement. I will also state that I don't believe that the transgressions of the Seahawks are any more or less, or better or worse than any other team in the league.
In addition, yes, I do agree that while I generalized overall, I still demand proof in specific, individual situations. I still am not convinced that Sherman was guilty and that there is certainly doubt when it comes to the evidence in the case.

Look. I am a Seahawks fan. I have every right to defend my team and it's players on what is (in case you had failed to notice) a Seahawks message board. If you don't like me doing it, then you are quite welcome to go back to your own board.

As for your little rude and snide "I just hope people see you for what you are" comment, maybe you should worry more about people seeing you for what you are: a passive-agressive little troll.

 

[blstoker]

Richard Sherman adamantly denied taking PEDs from the very beginning, but denial is not a defense. He made a defense that he could win, plain and simple. Due to circumstances, there is no way to prove that his sample wasn't tainted, and so he was cleared. But defending himself does not mean he was withdrawing the denial.

Brandon Browner also denied taking PEDs, but dropped his appeal. A cynical person would just jump to the conclusion that he was guilty, but I still believe that he was asked to by the team so he could play when the playoffs came (or at least he came to that conclusion on his own).

I am tired of all the PED crap, the false outrage, the finger-pointing, the McCarthy-esque accusations throughout all sports. There is always going to be those to try to get around the rules, some will get caught, some will be punished without doing anything, and others will get away with it scot free.

 

[NinerSickness]

I am tired of all the PED crap, the false outrage, the finger-pointing, the McCarthy-esque accusations throughout all sports.

I'm tired of douche-holes cheating, lying about it with impunity and appealing decisions when they're caught even when they know they did it.