Game Thread: W4: Whiner alert. Please report to Levis Stadium... 4:05/1:05 FOX

[Anointed One]

Ugly win - trademark by the HAWKS but we'll take it any way we can get it...

Crazy though... backup QB and punter utilized as kicker due to kicker getting injured and we still win by only 7... Typical Seahawks win...

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I'll take the W but I don't feel good about it. Expecting to lose on Thursday.

 

[Anointed One]

I'll take the W but I don't feel good about it. Expecting to lose on Thursday.

Same... Especially after the Rams were hammered today...

 

[Judge Fudge]

Metcalfe might end up being great, and he's extremely good even now, but he needs to stop dropping catchable balls. That's probably his only big weakness. His hands let him down sometimes. 2 big drops again today. Maybe not the easiest catches but the ball was right in his hands both times. Less food color in the hair and more stickum on the gloves please.

And less mouth running.

That is my Big worry vs Rams on Thursday

 

[Screamin12th]

I'll take the W but I don't feel good about it. Expecting to lose on Thursday.

Same... Especially after the Rams were hammered today...

So you both expect the Hawks to start the Season 0-2 at home? brutal.

 

[Judge Fudge]

If you watch that clip Kittle is about to release from a zone and be WIDE the F open and likely go for a HUGE gain himself if Adams is not there... Adams can't cover 2 guys at once nor is he going to catch Samuel (or prevent that catch) given he was playing his ZONE. Was that the correct zone playcall? Talk to our brilliant coordinator.

Jones meanwhile is covering his original guy who is running into another zone and basically 3 defenders are covering him (lol, zone.exe stopped working) by the time Lance throws. THAT'S WRONG. He's supposed to fall back with his guy and STAY in his zone. Adams is pointing back to HELP Jones know "Yo, Lance is throwing your direction, FYI." That's actually very helpful for Jones who can potentially get a head start or bait an INT. Little did Jamal know the reason Lance was throwing was because Jones was in a different timezone. Had Jones broken off when he should've he probably would've seen that and Samuel coming at him.

You know what a cover 3 is, right? Cause that's what they ran.... LOB did it all the f'ing time as well so Kam could ROCK tight ends (which Adams would've done on Kittle). Difference was Sherman often didn't stick with the guy lined up across from him.... Yah if the guy across from him went deep, sure.... but when that didn't happen, Sherman still covered that ZONE deep. And yah you can press up a little bit (just like Reed did) to avoid prevent... but you have to be prepared to cover your quadrant of the field... Jones COMPLETELY abandoned it by going over the middle. Sherman never did that when we ran zone...

Eh whatever, think what you want.

Honestly. Jones was on his man.

I still say it was Blair fault

 

[Judge Fudge]

So you both expect the Hawks to start the Season 0-2 at home? brutal.

I don't.

 

[Screamin12th]

Honestly. Jones was on his man.

I still say it was Blair fault

MJD said it was all Adams and even called the play. He said it was a 2 man route so you stick to your man, also Blair ( Playing for Diggs ) is supposed to have back 3rd and he broke on the underneath man, He should have been hauling ass to cover the outside 3rd on the backend. Diggs said he wont throw anyone under the bus, i think had it been Jones they would have been more like first game, young mistake he has not been here that long he will learn blah blah.

When you look at Adams and Jones interview you can see that Jones REALLY wants to say something about it but just keeps biting his lip. Adams brushed it off with out really answering it.

 

[Judge Fudge]

MJD said it was all Adams and even called the play. He said it was a 2 man route so you stick to your man, also Blair ( Playing for Diggs ) is supposed to have back 3rd and he broke on the underneath man, He should have been hauling ass to cover the outside 3rd on the backend. Diggs said he wont throw anyone under the bus, i think had it been Jones they would have been more like first game, young mistake he has not been here that long he will learn blah blah.

Well we blame 3 different people.

But we won. We should not be bickering....


On to the short week

 

[Anointed One]

So you both expect the Hawks to start the Season 0-2 at home? brutal.

It wouldn’t surprise me. The 24-6 lead at halftime loss to the Titans at home was brutal,no? We’re not as dominant as we once were at home. That’s a fact….

So you’re telling me you would put all your money on them winning this game? Since you’re so confident and all? You wouldn’t want to be brutal or anything

 

[Screamin12th]

It wouldn’t surprise me. The 24-6 lead at halftime loss to the Titans at home was brutal,no? We’re not as dominant as we once were at home. That’s a fact….

So you’re telling me you would put all your money on them winning this game? Since you’re so confident and all? You wouldn’t want to be brutal or anything

you both are "expecting a lose" vs the Rams. I expect a hard tough game and don't have a clue who wins right now. Rams looked good then got smacked around, the 49ers looked good their first 2 games then got smacked around. Wild wild West. Cards have been exciting and dynamic.

 

[returnofjakedog]

MJD said it was all Adams and even called the play. He said it was a 2 man route so you stick to your man, also Blair ( Playing for Diggs ) is supposed to have back 3rd and he broke on the underneath man, He should have been hauling ass to cover the outside 3rd on the backend. Diggs said he wont throw anyone under the bus, i think had it been Jones they would have been more like first game, young mistake he has not been here that long he will learn blah blah.

When you look at Adams and Jones interview you can see that Jones REALLY wants to say something about it but just keeps biting his lip. Adams brushed it off with out really answering it.

Jordan Babineaux, former longtime NFL Safety broke it down during the Seahawk's post game show where he directly stated it was a Cover-3 where Jones missed the zone handoff and continued following his man to the middle instead of staying with his assignment. It also seems pretty obvious that is the case to me for whatever that is worth.
I'm not sure who MJD is referring to but I do think a 9 year veteran at the Safety position who has now spent 7 years here as an analyst can recognize and diagnose DB coverages and assignments.

Here is a quote from fieldgulls (the Seahawk's official NFL.com page) analyst Mookie Alexander in his game Winners and Losers column:
"I thought about putting Sidney Jones in the losers column. The facts are facts and he gave up two touchdowns. He was boxed out by Ross Dwelley for a score on the opening drive and was at fault on the horrible busted coverage touchdown to Deebo Samuel. Come to think of it he was picked on early and often on the first couple of possessions before settling down, but I don’t think it was all terrible. He certainly tries to play the ball and had a pass defensed and a near interception if not for Trey Lance’s inaccuracy. We’ll give it time to see if he’ll be a clear upgrade for Tre Flowers in the long-term. It wasn’t all that bad but I don’t think it was good overall."

In fact both Alexander, and the other writer there Bevens both praised Adams for his play today.

 

[blstoker]

If you watch the play - the only player on the defense who doesn't look like he's playing a zone is Jones. Every other defender on the field drops into a zone. Adams never gives any indication he's in anything but a zone, and neither does anyone else. The only player appearing to run a man defense is Jones, and the only zone that appears to be vacated is the deep third that appears Jones was supposed to cover.


It is possible that Adams is supposed to run with Samuel - but if that were the case, then we have bigger problems. It's a huge mismatch to have your strong safety (no matter how good) in man-to-man coverage against their #1 WR (a player who has been a thorn in your side since he came in the league). I'm not sure it would have been anything but a big play if you're expecting Adams to man up Samuel.

 

[Uhsplit]

Lj collier is a certified bust at this point, why even keep his ass on the roster?

As I have taken notice before, every one of your posts in this thread is negative. You quit posting once we had a safe lead. That is exactly how a troll (fake Seahawk fan) would post. I called you out on this crap about 6 or 7 years ago. Same schtick dude.
Fire the coach, blow up the team, terrible this and rotten that.
I agree that LJ looks like a bust, yet you post at least 2 negative posts about Adams, who had a good game. Nothing on him blowing up Kittle on the goal line?
Rant over, for now.

 

[returnofjakedog]

From ESPN beat write Henderson:

"Whether or not Sidney Jones will help fix the Seahawks' problems at cornerback remains to be seen after his first start. Jones, who replaced Tre Flowers in the starting lineup, said his recognition has to be better on the coverage bust that led to Deebo Samuel's long touchdown. He was also in coverage on the 49ers' first TD. Pete Carroll said the "huge error" on the Samuel play is the kind of thing he was hoping to avoid by giving Jones a month to learn Seattle's defense before playing him."

So PC also concurs it was Jones' mistake, not Adams.

Hopefully the multiple sources we have posted on this topic puts the subject to rest.

 

[JMR]

Missed sharing my comments on last week's shitpile of a game because I was on vacation and didn't feel like wasting any of it on that turd, so glad to get the W yesterday for something better to talk about. I think that's a solid win. It didn't start well, but good starts haven't done a whole lot for us the last couple weeks. My main takeaways:

• Not prolific numbers, but that was vintage Russell. The 2 signature plays were the Houdini TD pass and the scramble TD run.
• The D was terrible the first 1.5 times out, then I thought they stiffened up pretty good. They had the busted coverage for the long TD in the 2nd half, but that was really about all they gave up. They adjusted pretty well to the athleticism of Trey Lance and successfully kept him from making people say this morning he's the next Lamar Jackson.
• Sidney Jones, welcome back to Seattle! Not great but solid, and certainly better CB play than what we've seen so far this season.
• What's going on with Chris Carson? I love his physicality, but he seems to be having a tough time getting more than 3 yards these days. I am not ready to think we should start Alex Collins, but for at least 1 game he seemed a lot more effective. That TD run was fantastic.
• Nice to see DK avoid a post-score penalty for once, but those drops hurt. The long one down the sideline could have been put out there a little better for him, but it hit him squarely in the hands. The TO comp for him is starting to look more and more accurate...and that's not a bad thing, but his hands are definitely not elite and probably never will be. You like to see a catch rate of well over 50%, but we may also be a bit spoiled by the near sure-thing it is to throw to Lockett.
• How did the OL go from ghastly in the 1st half to decent/good in the 2nd? They seemed to have an easier time in protection once the ground game got going a little bit.
• It was a much more disciplined performance this week, and the maddening penalties were kept at bay. That plus no turnovers is a big reason we won this game.

2-2 is not awesome but looks quite a bit better than 1-3. Hopefully we can go 2-0 this week.

 

[Screamin12th]

the left side was zone as there was 0 WR on that side of the field, they picked up the FB on that side and the linebacker was hooked up to follow kittle through the middle back to the right (zones don't hook up LB on TE more often than not ) , he was going to run with Kittle as he turned his hips and in zone you sit down like Adams does. Adams does the "pass off" signal that you see in zones saying cover the outside with a hand extended with a closed fist to the outside. BUT by the time he gives this signal Jones has all ready flipped his hips and is running with the other WR. Adams should have stuck to Deebo or passed him off as soon as the ball was snapped not when Jones has flipped his hips and is all ready running with his man.

Like i said either it was Adams Mistake or a very POORLY designed defensive play. ( which are all designed by Pete Carroll ) Also Pete said he wanted to give him time to limit mistakes but he NEVER said Jones or Adam made that mistake. Right now we got Former players pointing fingers at both Adams and Jones. To me I dont care as Adams should have ran with Deebo or signaled the Hand off like he did meaning there has to be communication between Adams and Jones and Adams was LATE LATE LATE on that signal as Deebo was running past him all ready as Adams sat down to guard .... NO ONE.

 

[Screamin12th]

i like this animation as it shows Bobby Hooking up and locking onto Kittle Jones turning and running with his man and Adams Dropping his man to cover ... no one as Kittle is being followed by Bobby.

Say all you want you will NEVER convince me not in a million years this was not Adams fault or 100% bad play design. As far as safeties running with wideouts, yes in the Hawks Defense this happens often. Adams has been Burned on this same play before when he has tried to flip and run and it was against the 49ers last year. No doubt they had this in here for him.

 

[returnofjakedog]

the left side was zone as there was 0 WR on that side of the field, they picked up the FB on that side and the linebacker was hooked up to follow kittle through the middle back to the right (zones don't hook up LB on TE more often than not ) , he was going to run with Kittle as he turned his hips and in zone you sit down like Adams does. Adams does the "pass off" signal that you see in zones saying cover the outside with a hand extended with a closed fist to the outside. BUT by the time he gives this signal Jones has all ready flipped his hips and is running with the other WR. Adams should have stuck to Deebo or passed him off as soon as the ball was snapped not when Jones has flipped his hips and is all ready running with his man.

Like i said either it was Adams Mistake or a very POORLY designed defensive play. ( which are all designed by Pete Carroll ) Also Pete said he wanted to give him time to limit mistakes but he NEVER said Jones or Adam made that mistake. Right now we got Former players pointing fingers at both Adams and Jones. To me I dont care as Adams should have ran with Deebo or signaled the Hand off like he did meaning there has to be communication between Adams and Jones and Adams was LATE LATE LATE on that signal as Deebo was running past him all ready as Adams sat down to guard .... NO ONE.

Bottom line:
It was a Cover-3 zone in which Jones followed a reciever out of his area, and thusly missed the hand off from Adams.

100% on Jones, and the coaching staff because of his lack of time in the system.

This has all been confirmed by fieldgulls, ESPN, Seattle Times beat writers Alexander, Henderson, Condatto and many others.

If none of that is clear enough, none other than Pete Carroll also confirmed it in his press conference where he acknowledged it was Jones, and stated it was a work in progress.
Also both Sidney Jones and Jamal Adams confirmed it (despite your rather strange "He looked at him funny at the podium" comment).

All of these sources and more also praised Adams for his coverage.

Sorry but you are just wrong on this on. You could blame the scheme but Jones would have been on Deebo if he would have followed it correctly.

 

[returnofjakedog]

i like this animation as it shows Bobby Hooking up and locking onto Kittle Jones turning and running with his man and Adams Dropping his man to cover ... no one as Kittle is being followed by Bobby.

Say all you want you will NEVER convince me not in a million years this was not Adams fault or 100% bad play design.

That is ridiculous. Blaming Adams for being the closest defender when Jones completely deserted his zone area is just wrong. Even your animation specifically shows Jones' glaring error.

So I guess that you are correct, and Pete Carroll is wrong?!? Should we take your view over multiple professional sources including the Head Coach?