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MJ Kobe Lebron?

Wamu

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all true...a good counter to those people (which they, of course, ignore) is his last move. when Durant made his move to improve a 73 win team that looked unbeatable, Lebron countered by going somewhere there were no other superstars.

LeBron really went to LA LA Land for the world class hair replacement centers.
 

dtgold88

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That guy who is Krause's boss had him stay for the 98 season. He stayed out of it for the following season.

Also, while Phil said that it was time to go, he also said that he thought everyone would have signed a 1 year deal to stay except Scottie Pippen who was still pissed about the 6 year deal he signed.

But they were never asked.
Maybe they were never asked because he had already begged out which meant MJ begged out. Why would Pippen want to be part of a massive rebuild?

Phiilip said at the end of the documentary he was asked to stay after the 1998 season. Did you just not catch that or you think Jackson lied?

I have to believe you know they talked to Phil first, right? Once he declined, then MJ declined. at that point, why bother keeping the rest?
 

TrustMeIamRight

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No disagreement with that last part. Remember a scene on the Doc. with him just relishing the fact he was in his hotel by himself (well, other than camera crew).

But come on....He said he'd stay if they stayed together and Phil stayed. so with no Phil and a lesser roster he retired. Not possible he (and Phillip) didn't stick around because they didn't want their legacy tarnished some?

They already talked that he was retiring the year before. It is why the doc was called the Last Dance. That is what Jackson called the season.

If he was worried about tarnishing his legacy -- he wouldn't have come back at 39 to play.

I just think he was sick of the circus and to change teams, he'd have to take an enormous pay cut. So it wasn't worth it to him to keep playing and if the Bulls weren't staying together for a run at 4 in a row -- he'd rather spend his time golfing.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Maybe they were never asked because he had already begged out which meant MJ begged out. Why would Pippen want to be part of a massive rebuild?

Phiilip said at the end of the documentary he was asked to stay after the 1998 season. Did you just not catch that or you think Jackson lied?

Phil was asked to stay, but his response was.......it was time to move on.

And while Jordan and Jackson may have said Pippen would have signed a 1 year deal -- I don't think there was a chance in hell he would have.
 

rsw626

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Uh, yeah, I saw the documentary. Maybe Krause did not want him back but that guy who is Krause's boss did and asked Phil to stay. Phil, himself, said it was time to go.

are you saying Phillip and Reinsdorf lied?

Assuming they are not liars, yes, Phillip and MJ begged out of a challenge.
Reinsdorf did ask, but no way would Phil stay while Krause was there. The drama and bad blood during the 98 season would have only gotten worse.

As has been stated by several, Krause deserves full credit for building up the Bulls, he just should have handled the end better.
 

dtgold88

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They already talked that he was retiring the year before. It is why the doc was called the Last Dance. That is what Jackson called the season.

If he was worried about tarnishing his legacy -- he wouldn't have come back at 39 to play.

I just think he was sick of the circus and to change teams, he'd have to take an enormous pay cut. So it wasn't worth it to him to keep playing and if the Bulls weren't staying together for a run at 4 in a row -- he'd rather spend his time golfing.
But the idea that was peppered throughout was Krause broke it up and that's not the case. First move after season was they asked Phillip if he'd come back for another season. He said no. Then MJ begs out.

Now I can see being sick of the circus and it's certainly his right to quit/retire. But that defeats the narrative of the MJ is God crew a little as it shows he didn't want to undertake an actual challenge.....nor did Phillip.
 

trojanfan12

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Maybe they were never asked because he had already begged out which meant MJ begged out. Why would Pippen want to be part of a massive rebuild?

They didn't beg out. Krause had already said that Phil wasn't coming back. He announced it in the media. Don't know how much clearer that can be made.

He also knew that if Phil wasn't coming back, neither was MJ and he chose to announce that it was going to be Phil's last year anyway.

Pippen wasn't coming back even if everyone else did, he was that pissed at the Bulls.

It was all in the documentary including tape of the media session where Krause said it would be Phil's last year. Can't make it any clearer than that for you.

I'm not getting into your page after page bullshit while you go on and on about "secret meetings where Phil already begged out" either.
 

msgkings322

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This team would beat them.

Magic
MJ
LeBron
Duncan
Olajuwon
Of course it would. He knows that. That was not the point of his post.
 

dtgold88

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Reinsdorf did ask, but no way would Phil stay while Krause was there. The drama and bad blood during the 98 season would have only gotten worse.

As has been stated by several, Krause deserves full credit for building up the Bulls, he just should have handled the end better.

why would Phillip care about bad blood? The players and owner had his back. You'd think if someone would beg out it would be Krause....but he's not afraid of a challenge.
 

dtgold88

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They didn't beg out. Krause had already said that Phil wasn't coming back. He announced it in the media. Don't know how much clearer that can be made.

He also knew that if Phil wasn't coming back, neither was MJ and he chose to announce that it was going to be Phil's last year anyway.

Pippen wasn't coming back even if everyone else did, he was that pissed at the Bulls.

It was all in the documentary including tape of the media session where Krause said it would be Phil's last year. Can't make it any clearer than that for you.

I'm not getting into your page after page bullshit while you go on and on about "secret meetings where Phil already begged out" either.
Idea you think you cannot make it clear is comical as you claim to have seen the documentary but are confused by the facts....Krause announced it in the media BEFORE the season that it was Phil's last season. AFTER the season Reinsdorf (the owner) offered Phil the opportunity to come back.
I guess what is really unclear here is one of the following....
you are not aware the owner of the team can overrule the GM of the team?
You do not believe Phillip when he told us AFTER the season he was asked to return and said no?

This would only be page after page if, like usual, you cannot man up and admit your "logic" is off base and I replied again. I'm done replying as if you don't get it at this point you never will and I'd hate for you to want to make up for your lack of power again in the real world and ban me for showing you that you were off base in your thinking.....not with no sports going on.

So go ahead and get the last word on this one.
 

Mecca

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Oh, I totally get why he gets criticized.

I just don’t believe that he should. At least not the extent that he does.

When a player hits free agency, their only obligation is to do what is best for them and their families. LeBron has helped pave the way for current/future players to do just that. Of course some of his decisions were selfish. But honestly they should be.
Oh, I agree with you.

Imo.....

The Team hoping argument was invalidated by Durant's actions jumping to the Dubs.

Several others have tried to do the same since, with lesser success.

But, it's all we haters got.

I am a staunch LeBron supporter..

...right up until you start comparing him to Jordan....lol
 

trojanfan12

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Idea you think you cannot make it clear is comical as you claim to have seen the documentary but are confused by the facts....Krause announced it in the media BEFORE the season that it was Phil's last season. AFTER the season Reinsdorf (the owner) offered Phil the opportunity to come back.
I guess what is really unclear here is one of the following....
you are not aware the owner of the team can overrule the GM of the team?
You do not believe Phillip when he told us AFTER the season he was asked to return and said no?

This would only be page after page if, like usual, you cannot man up and admit your "logic" is off base and I replied again. I'm done replying as if you don't get it at this point you never will and I'd hate for you to want to make up for your lack of power again in the real world and ban me for showing you that you were off base in your thinking.....not with no sports going on.

So go ahead and get the last word on this one.

At no point did I threaten to ban you.

But I'll tell you what I can do for you. I can see that your banned from a hell of a lot more than a thread if that'll make you happy and fulfill your desire to be an e-martyr.
 

Wamu

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Oh, I agree with you.

Imo.....

The Team hoping argument was invalidated by Durant's actions jumping to the Dubs.

Several others have tried to do the same since, with lesser success.

But, it's all we haters got.

I am a staunch LeBron supporter..

...right up until you start comparing him to Jordan....lol

MJ's good- 5 rings in 15 seasons. But John Havlicek's better- 8 rings in 16 seasons (including 4 in a row).



3i7zenReaUuI0.gif
 

Mecca

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I don't really knock him for retiring. It's his choice. But clearly he would not accept the challenge that a little change might have created which kind of goes against the image many have of him.
I see it different.

I think it's a matter of entitlement.

Good or bad, right or wrong, he felt like he earned the right to have a chance to win again on his terms and his terms only.

I think that's completely in line with the way some of us see him.

Arrogant, self-absorbed prick who just wins.
 

trojanfan12

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Oh, I agree with you.

Imo.....

The Team hoping argument was invalidated by Durant's actions jumping to the Dubs.

Several others have tried to do the same since, with lesser success.

But, it's all we haters got.

I am a staunch LeBron supporter..

...right up until you start comparing him to Jordan....lol

Unless you mean invalidate as a criticism, I don't think it invalidates what Lebron did.

If anything, I think it validates it.

I think Lebron doing what he did is why KD was a Warrior, AD is a Laker, Kawhi and PG are Clippers, Kyrie and KD are Nets, Westbrook and Harden are Rockets...etc., etc.
 

Wamu

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At no point did I threaten to ban you.

But I'll tell you what I can do for you. I can see that your banned from a hell of a lot more than a thread if that'll make you happy and fulfill your desire to be an e-martyr.


"But I'll tell you"

im-not-listening-la-la-la.jpg
 
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