MJ Kobe Lebron?

[dtgold88]

Well, in fairness, LeBron’s response would be to change teams.

I actually do think retiring would be better received by most fans. Although I don’t think that is fair.

But people buy the narrative of MJ when it seems it's not even true. He blamed Krause for breaking up the Bulls (and why he retired) when according to jackson he was given the chance to stay and he declined. Seems both he and MJ had no interest in a bigger challenge.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I think this is overblown in MJ.

He had such a killer instinct that instead of play for another coach he retired. did he forget about this instinct all those times he lost big games and/or missed big shots? when he failed to even get to the Finals?

Are you kidding? How are you on a NBA forum and making a comment like this?
You think a killer instinct means you are going to make every game winner?

After that comment -- I can't imagine anyone would take anything you say on this board serious.

 

[dtgold88]

Are you kidding? How are you on a NBA forum and making a comment like this?
You think a killer instinct means you are going to make every game winner?

After that comment -- I can't imagine anyone would take anything you say on this board serious.

Never said it means you would make every game winner. Or won every series. That's probably why the guy without the killer insinct was better when it came to clutch shots.

and I wont even mention the ridiculous UM comments you have made which would have anyone care what you thought. I care because of the comic relief you provide.

Weird you ignored the part about MJ retiring instead of playing with a lesser coach and possibly lesser teammates. That is a killer instinct?

Maybe you should find more proof that Lebron, wade and Bosh all decided years before FA to play together.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Never said it means you would make every game winner. Or won every series. That's probably why the guy without the killer insinct was better when it came to clutch shots.

and I wont even mention the ridiculous UM comments you have made which would have anyone care what you thought. I care because of the comic relief you provide.

Weird you ignored the part about MJ retiring instead of playing with a lesser coach and possibly lesser teammates. That is a killer instinct?

Maybe you should find more proof that Lebron, wade and Bosh all decided years before FA to play together.

UM comments? The only ridiculous comment I made on the CFB board, was a running joke and all the regulars were messaged it was a joke to get under the skin of Alabama fans. I said 'Saban is a great coach......in the SEC' and then I attached his MSU record and Miami Dolphins record. That was for entertainment purposes only.

Outside of that -- I talk so much shit about my Wolverines.

Jordan almost retired in 1997. They won so he came back. Imagine having to live his life. He had to have a personal security team everywhere he went.......in the world. And this
was before the internet and social media. He was the most famous person in the world. I would get sick of it too. The fact he was able to deal with it and succeed at the level he did is amazing.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

I can see the point of questioning the competitive desire in the narrow one specific area of "team building".

Jordan = one system, one coach, one superstar running mate the entire run
And when Jordan was facing playing under anything but ideal conditions, he retired.

Jordan's teams sucked whenever he played even a single season without Jackson, Pippen and/or a difrent offensive style.
Jordan wanted no part of anything new it seemed. He needed the comfort of his HOF castmates and perfect system.

He would rather retire than face any sort of new team challenge.
And when he did finally relent and try something new, he embarrassed himself with Washington.

 

[rsw626]

I can see the point of questioning the competitive desire in the narrow one specific area of "team building".

Jordan = one system, one coach, one superstar running mate the entire run
And when Jordan was facing playing under anything but ideal conditions, he retired.

Jordan's teams sucked whenever he played even a single season without Jackson, Pippen and/or a difrent offensive style.
Jordan wanted no part of anything new it seemed. He needed the comfort of his HOF castmates and perfect system.

He would rather retire than face any sort of new team challenge.
And when he did finally relent and try something new, he embarrassed himself with Washington.

m, his teams befor Jackson continuously went to the playoffs, they just couldn't get by those dominant late 80's Celtic and Pistons teams.

As for his HOF teammates, Pippen is the only one who was there the entire run, besides those two, the rosters for the first 3 Championships, and the last 3 are totally different.

Also, name me one top player in any sport who at the age of 35 want to start over and spend years rebuilding, usualy if they do change, it's purely a money grab right before retirement.

 

[dtgold88]

UM comments? The only ridiculous comment I made on the CFB board, was a running joke and all the regulars were messaged it was a joke to get under the skin of Alabama fans. I said 'Saban is a great coach......in the SEC' and then I attached his MSU record and Miami Dolphins record. That was for entertainment purposes only.

Outside of that -- I talk so much shit about my Wolverines.

Jordan almost retired in 1997. They won so he came back. Imagine having to live his life. He had to have a personal security team everywhere he went.......in the world. And this
was before the internet and social media. He was the most famous person in the world. I would get sick of it too. The fact he was able to deal with it and succeed at the level he did is amazing.

No disagreement with that last part. Remember a scene on the Doc. with him just relishing the fact he was in his hotel by himself (well, other than camera crew).

But come on....He said he'd stay if they stayed together and Phil stayed. so with no Phil and a lesser roster he retired. Not possible he (and Phillip) didn't stick around because they didn't want their legacy tarnished some?

 

[dtgold88]

I can see the point of questioning the competitive desire in the narrow one specific area of "team building".

Jordan = one system, one coach, one superstar running mate the entire run
And when Jordan was facing playing under anything but ideal conditions, he retired.

Jordan's teams sucked whenever he played even a single season without Jackson, Pippen and/or a difrent offensive style.
Jordan wanted no part of anything new it seemed. He needed the comfort of his HOF castmates and perfect system.

He would rather retire than face any sort of new team challenge.
And when he did finally relent and try something new, he embarrassed himself with Washington.

ding, ding, ding!!!

 

[dtgold88]

m, his teams befor Jackson continuously went to the playoffs, they just couldn't get by those dominant late 80's Celtic and Pistons teams.

As for his HOF teammates, Pippen is the only one who was there the entire run, besides those two, the rosters for the first 3 Championships, and the last 3 are totally different.

Also, name me one top player in any sport who at the age of 35 want to start over and spend years rebuilding, usualy if they do change, it's purely a money grab right before retirement.

years rebuilding? He could have signed a 1 year deal. Probably only lose Rodman and Pippen and of course Phillip. You saying he's not good enough to win without them? Pippen won 55 without MJ.

 

[trojanfan12]

I can see the point of questioning the competitive desire in the narrow one specific area of "team building".

Jordan = one system, one coach, one superstar running mate the entire run
And when Jordan was facing playing under anything but ideal conditions, he retired.

Jordan's teams sucked whenever he played even a single season without Jackson, Pippen and/or a difrent offensive style.
Jordan wanted no part of anything new it seemed. He needed the comfort of his HOF castmates and perfect system.

He would rather retire than face any sort of new team challenge.
And when he did finally relent and try something new, he embarrassed himself with Washington.

lol

He was 35 when he retired. He had already been through other coaches, other systems and building a roster. He did that his first what? 7 years in the league?

Why the hell would anyone who had accomplished what he did, want to start all over at age 35 with a new coach, new system and a team full of kids and/or role players?

If the Bulls weren't going to bring everyone back on 1 year deals to try to get a 4th in a row, then everyone going their separate ways was the best outcome.

 

[tlance]

lol

He was 35 when he retired. He had already been through other coaches, other systems and building a roster. He did that his first what? 7 years in the league?

Why the hell would anyone who had accomplished what he did, want to start all over at age 35 with a new coach, new system and a team full of kids and/or role players?

If the Bulls weren't going to bring everyone back on 1 year deals to try to get a 4th in a row, then everyone going their separate ways was the best outcome.

Yeah.

Can’t knock MJ for retiring. And aside from this thread, nobody really does that.

By the same token, I don’t believe it is right to knock LeBron for changing teams. Yet many want to use that as some kind of excuse to not give him his due as an all time great player.

 

[rsw626]

years rebuilding? He could have signed a 1 year deal. Probably only lose Rodman and Pippen and of course Phillip. You saying he's not good enough to win without them? Pippen won 55 without MJ.

they got rid of Kerr also. Krause made it clear he wanted to bring in all new players. Doubt Pip would have signed regardless so yeah it would have been years rebuilding. They still are by the way.

 

[Wamu]

UM comments? The only ridiculous comment I made on the CFB board, was a running joke and all the regulars were messaged it was a joke to get under the skin of Alabama fans. I said 'Saban is a great coach......in the SEC' and then I attached his MSU record and Miami Dolphins record. That was for entertainment purposes only.

Outside of that -- I talk so much shit about my Wolverines.

Jordan almost retired in 1997. They won so he came back. Imagine having to live his life. He had to have a personal security team everywhere he went.......in the world. And this
was before the internet and social media. He was the most famous person in the world. I would get sick of it too. The fact he was able to deal with it and succeed at the level he did is amazing.

So all your Jimmy Jam nut-hugging was just a running joke? Gonna call bullshit on that. You hung on Harbaugh's junk nonstop for the first 4 years he was in ann arbor.

 

[Mecca]

I can see the point of questioning the competitive desire in the narrow one specific area of "team building".

Jordan = one system, one coach, one superstar running mate the entire run
And when Jordan was facing playing under anything but ideal conditions, he retired.

Jordan's teams sucked whenever he played even a single season without Jackson, Pippen and/or a difrent offensive style.
Jordan wanted no part of anything new it seemed. He needed the comfort of his HOF castmates and perfect system.

He would rather retire than face any sort of new team challenge.
And when he did finally relent and try something new, he embarrassed himself with Washington.

Right....

Averaging 20ppg at age 40 is quite embarrassing.

 

[Wamu]

lol

He was 35 when he retired. He had already been through other coaches, other systems and building a roster. He did that his first what? 7 years in the league?

Why the hell would anyone who had accomplished what he did, want to start all over at age 35 with a new coach, new system and a team full of kids and/or role players?

If the Bulls weren't going to bring everyone back on 1 year deals to try to get a 4th in a row, then everyone going their separate ways was the best outcome.

 

[Wamu]

Right....

Averaging 20ppg at age 40 is quite embarrassing.

Papa Ball averaged 21.5 at age 41.


Lavar > Michael

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah.

Can’t knock MJ for retiring. And aside from this thread, nobody really does that.

By the same token, I don’t believe it is right to knock LeBron for changing teams. Yet many want to use that as some kind of excuse to not give him his due as an all time great player.

I think a lot of the criticism Lebron receives comes from a couple of things.

While free agency had been around for awhile, Lebron was the first player of his stature to openly use it to go team up with 2 other star quality players.

He was already going to be criticized for that...but then he had to announce it in about the worst way possible. I think about the only way it could have come off worse is if he got to his new city and had some kind of after party that got televi...oh, wait. lol

 

[Mecca]

lol

He was 35 when he retired. He had already been through other coaches, other systems and building a roster. He did that his first what? 7 years in the league?

Why the hell would anyone who had accomplished what he did, want to start all over at age 35 with a new coach, new system and a team full of kids and/or role players?

If the Bulls weren't going to bring everyone back on 1 year deals to try to get a 4th in a row, then everyone going their separate ways was the best outcome.

I openly admit my fangirling.

But, that was one of the dumbest posts in this thread even when considering the massive amounts of troll posts.

Why was this one so bad?

Because he was actually being serious...lmfao

You win 3 chips in a row and your father gets murdered under a bridge = less than ideal circumstances?

Lmfao!!!!



Good LAWD!!!!

 

[Wamu]

I think a lot of the criticism Lebron receives comes from a couple of things.

While free agency had been around for awhile, Lebron was the first player of his stature to openly use it to go team up with 2 other star quality players.

He was already going to be criticized for that...but then he had to announce it in about the worst way possible. I think about the only way it could have come off worse is if he got to his new city and had some kind of after party that got televi...oh, wait. lol

I can't believe that absurd party for the Heatles was all on LeBron. It's easier to just blame him. But the Heat organization deserves some criticism as well.

 

[Mecca]

Yeah.

Can’t knock MJ for retiring. And aside from this thread, nobody really does that.

By the same token, I don’t believe it is right to knock LeBron for changing teams. Yet many want to use that as some kind of excuse to not give him his due as an all time great player.

You gotta remember WHY people hold that against Lebron.

Most of it, @trojanfan12 already covered.

1. Who was the biggest name to make such a move before Lebron?

Maybe Shaq?

He joined a up and coming squad, not a Super Team.

2. The douchey ass TV specials...

The decision was bad. The not 1, 2,3...20 championships was worse.

3. That's really all we've got.

The people who still use the "he's not clutch, not a killer " argument , clearly haven't been paying attention to his career from his 2nd year in Miami till now.

That argument is obsolete. All any of us that want to justify ranking him lower than Magic, Michael, KAJ have left is his Finals record and team hoping.

We can't shit on the Finals record, unless we want to do the same with Wilt, Jerry West.

So, team hoping it is!!!!!