Has the era of haskins begun

[Stymietee]

Dwayne Haskins is starting to show a lot of improvement in practice

Perhaps that's because he's actually getting practice with the first team, something that never happened under Gruden. BTW: this happened in less than two weeks, so strange how improvement comes when you're practicing against and with first teamers. Gruden didn't want him, and he certainly didn't want to be forced into playing him because the team grew increasingly confident in him as he improved week after week after week at practice. This truly answers all questions about Gruden's "_______, (not Haskins) gives us the best chance to win" stance, since it's clear now that Dwayne wasn't given the opportunity to impress his coaches or teammates in practice.

It worked out well in that Dwayne didn't get a start, but the cost of that was little to no improvement in an already talented football player.

 

[Stymietee]

I guess I just don’t buy the idea that Gruden intentionally set him back.

I believe that Gruden knew he needed to win this season, and that Keenum provided the best chance to do that. But unless he is a fool, he also knows that if he had any chance to keep the job beyond this season, he had to give Haskins a chance eventually. His focus was clearly on today, but it would never be ina. Coach’s best interest to interfere with his first round pick’s development.

As to why Haskins is the back up?

I have no idea. That is stupid as hell. He should be 3rd string.

Redskins gonna Redskin.

I know that it's difficult to buy into such a notion, but think about this for yourself and let me know if there's some other explanation.

It is a FACT that under Gruden Dwayne had zero practices with the first team, (one slow walk through excepted) he had no package of plays to master, and, I'll add this, no opportunity increase his workload once he did master the original set of plays. Now under Callahan, he gets a package of plays, time to work with the first teamers and in a week, magically, reports like this one.

Dwayne Haskins is starting to show a lot of improvement in practice

Who knows why he didn't do what Callahan is now doing? I don't believe that we are ever going to prove what his motivations or lack of the same were, but right now, it doesn't look good for him.

 

[skinz2winz]

Keep in mind, Callahan throws out a lot of praise. Have you been watching his press conferences? At some point here in the near future, Haskins has to look in the mirror and ask himself, "what is holding me back", "is it me"? Is Haskins doing enough to "learn" the playbook? Is Haskins watching film of the previous week on his own or with the QB coach & OC to see what he can learn from film study, current QB habits that lead to mistakes, execution, timing and all those idiosyncrasies that go into the position even though he is not the starter? Maybe there is blame to go all around is what I'm saying. Clearly Gruden was not vested in this kid, Callahan has made that much clear.

 

[Sportster 72]

Let me dare ask, very, very, green by what standard? This is football not rocket science, correct? A player either has the necessary skills to play the game or he,does not, period, full stop.

True or false... If a team feels the need to work over a long period of time on fundamental things like footwork and delivery aren't they either admitting to a mistake in drafting a player, and/or trying to change what has gotten that player drafted in the first place?

Finally, as a coach, why on earth would you not give said player first team reps in order to give yourself some insight into his bust v. Potential status?

Not full stop Sty. I am not talking about his footwork or delivery. I am talking about his ability to read NFL defenses, process it etc. etc. Hel he has the arm even if he is throwing off one leg. He needs to recognize defensive line fronts, make line calls there is a lot more than the average person knows and way more than I know. College coaches dumb down offenses to A) be more in control B) make it easier for the QBs. Kids today and Dwayne is one didn't even call plays but he is only one of many.

NO first team reps unless you are going to start or your starter is hurt (like has happened this past week) then you get the reps.

Please know I am not writing the kid off. He has some talent. Remember Mahomes sat for 15 games. You learn before and after team practice.

Maybe not right now but I think they should play him at least a few games to see where he is at. Remember you and I both said "hey, they used to teach QBs for two or three years before they started. Todays salaries make that impossible.

Gruden is on record as saying he knew Haskin's needed time to learn when they drafted him. He also said the kid was learning quicker than he thought.

 

[j_y19]

I guess I just don’t buy the idea that Gruden intentionally set him back.

I believe that Gruden knew he needed to win this season, and that Keenum provided the best chance to do that. But unless he is a fool, he also knows that if he had any chance to keep the job beyond this season, he had to give Haskins a chance eventually. His focus was clearly on today, but it would never be ina. Coach’s best interest to interfere with his first round pick’s development.

As to why Haskins is the back up?

I have no idea. That is stupid as hell. He should be 3rd string.

Redskins gonna Redskin.

Of course Gruden didn't set him back. They only worked together for 6 months. This notion that Gurden somehow purposefully sabotaged his development is foolishness. Its also true that Gruden was coaching for his job so he focused on the ones that were ready to play that week. I completely understand his decision making process in that area, that doesn't mean I agree with it, but I understand why he was doing what he was doing.

 

[Skins2021]

Stymietee,

Is there another reason you defend Haskins so ruthlessly when all early signs have not been good, at all?

Did you defend Patrick Ramsey this vehemently or Kirk Cousins? What about Gus Ferotte in the early stages of their careers?

I find it odd how strongly you back Haskins, wondering if there is something else to it?

 

[reptec101]

Throwing Haskins in on a hopeless team might be detrimental to his growth... not beneficial. Yes we all wanna see him get experience but do we really think he'll gain confidence with this Oline that he'd be behind. Might get shell shocked and turn into another David carr who got sacked more often during his rookie year then Betty Lou did in her last year of high school. Im in no rush to see Haskins out there. Let him sit out this losing year and start fresh next year with more prep, new coach and attitude.

Note to self: Look up Betty Lou

 

[Stymietee]

Not full stop Sty. I am not talking about his footwork or delivery. I am talking about his ability to read NFL defenses, process it etc. etc. Hel he has the arm even if he is throwing off one leg. He needs to recognize defensive line fronts, make line calls there is a lot more than the average person knows and way more than I know. College coaches dumb down offenses to A) be more in control B) make it easier for the QBs. Kids today and Dwayne is one didn't even call plays but he is only one of many.

NO first team reps unless you are going to start or your starter is hurt (like has happened this past week) then you get the reps.

Please know I am not writing the kid off. He has some talent. Remember Mahomes sat for 15 games. You learn before and after team practice.

Maybe not right now but I think they should play him at least a few games to see where he is at. Remember you and I both said "hey, they used to teach QBs for two or three years before they started. Todays salaries make that impossible.

Gruden is on record as saying he knew Haskin's needed time to learn when they drafted him. He also said the kid was learning quicker than he thought.

Absolutely full stop ole' friend. Sometimes I believe that folks focus so much on what they want a player to be and forget about what that player already is. With that in mind it might be instructive to do a refresher on the talent that we drafted at 15.

Dwayne Haskins Film Analysis - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu08P-dh8gY


In terms of his so-called weakness at film study, this young man is a film junkie, he knows how to read defenses, what to look for and so forth. All he needed at this level was a course on the idiosyncrasies in NFL defenses. Again a refresher on his skillset might prove instructive.

Film Session: Dwayne Haskins Preps for Northwestern | Ohio ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l1167E8_LM


12:39
Dec 01, 2018 · Ever wonder how a Big Ten record-setting QB prepares for an opponent? Gerry sits down and with Ohio State's Dwayne Haskins to break down the game film. SUBSCRIBE to Big Ten Network on Youtube

 

[Stymietee]

Not full stop Sty. I am not talking about his footwork or delivery. I am talking about his ability to read NFL defenses, process it etc. etc. Hel he has the arm even if he is throwing off one leg. He needs to recognize defensive line fronts, make line calls there is a lot more than the average person knows and way more than I know. College coaches dumb down offenses to A) be more in control B) make it easier for the QBs. Kids today and Dwayne is one didn't even call plays but he is only one of many.

NO first team reps unless you are going to start or your starter is hurt (like has happened this past week) then you get the reps.

Please know I am not writing the kid off. He has some talent. Remember Mahomes sat for 15 games. You learn before and after team practice.

Maybe not right now but I think they should play him at least a few games to see where he is at. Remember you and I both said "hey, they used to teach QBs for two or three years before they started. Todays salaries make that impossible.

Gruden is on record as saying he knew Haskin's needed time to learn when they drafted him. He also said the kid was learning quicker than he thought.

Oh yeah there's one more thing to consider when we're talking about this organization...identification!!
Sometimes they find themselves with a diamond and have to decide whether to cut it into the perfect gem or merely polish it. With that metaphor in mind 80-95% of the time they have no clue which is best for their gems and totally fuck them up by doing the exact wrong thing for that player. Dwayne is the polish type, he already has a massive skillset to build upon, all attempts to mold (metaphorically "cut") him will only mess him up.

So, here's what he needs, a little mechanical work in terms of snapping his wrist to improve the spiral (small shit), an in-depth course on NFL defenses, and real, focused work, with the first team. That's it!! Then next year during OTA's, training camp and the pre-season all the first team snaps that he can handle.

 

[skinz2winz]

Perhaps that's because he's actually getting practice with the first team, something that never happened under Gruden. BTW: this happened in less than two weeks, so strange how improvement comes when you're practicing against and with first teamers. Gruden didn't want him, and he certainly didn't want to be forced into playing him because the team grew increasingly confident in him as he improved week after week after week at practice. This truly answers all questions about Gruden's "_______, (not Haskins) gives us the best chance to win" stance, since it's clear now that Dwayne wasn't given the opportunity to impress his coaches or teammates in practice.

It worked out well in that Dwayne didn't get a start, but the cost of that was little to no improvement in an already talented football player.

Well, and let's be real here, it cost Gruden his job.

 

[Stymietee]

Well, and let's be real here, it cost Gruden his job.

Yep! in effect, Gruden fired himself!

 

[skinz2winz]

Of course Gruden didn't set him back. They only worked together for 6 months. This notion that Gurden somehow purposefully sabotaged his development is foolishness. Its also true that Gruden was coaching for his job so he focused on the ones that were ready to play that week. I completely understand his decision making process in that area, that doesn't mean I agree with it, but I understand why he was doing what he was doing.

Gruden didn't intentionally set Haksins back but inadvertently he did by putting his own agenda ahead of the teams. Gruden coached to not get fired through 5 games. Anotherwards, he didn't "coach everyone up", as he could have. Again, I say there is blame all around here. Gruden is gone, let's move on...

 

[Stymietee]

Stymietee,

Is there another reason you defend Haskins so ruthlessly when all early signs have not been good, at all?

Did you defend Patrick Ramsey this vehemently or Kirk Cousins? What about Gus Ferotte in the early stages of their careers?

I find it odd how strongly you back Haskins, wondering if there is something else to it?

There is something more to it and it all centers around this organization's uncanny ability to take players who can ball and turn them into question marks.

So glad that you asked the question and listed the players that you did. In every case I researched each of them and posted my conclusions. (Keep in mind that I advocate a time to sit and learn for ALL new QB's entering the NFL

Patrick Ramsey was a raw talent who was mentally destroyed by impatience. Dude had a canon attached to his shoulders and a pea inside of his head. There was nothing truly positive to defend with this guy.

Kirk Cousin is turning out to be the exact guy that I described him to be when he became a starter here. I will admit that my initial observations of him changed as he played and I always refer to him as a "pretty good QB." I stand by that assessment.

Gus Ferotte Said it then and say it now, he was merely OK. He greatest strength came from the supporting cast around him and luck in being the back-up to Heath Shuler. He's most famous for head butting a thinly padded cement wall on a Monday night game. A journeyman at best. Again nothing special to defend.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in relation to Haskins! I have researched him as throughly as any of the others and whatever you're seeing I'm NOT!

He is as talented as one could ask for in a player with his limited experiences in school. It's all there for anyone with an unbiased eye to see and perhaps that explains your reliance to ONLY see his limited experience thus far. Never mind that he entered that game without any first team reps, no package of plays to be used by the back-up QB in the event that he had to enter the game, no preparation whatsoever!. Tell you what, try looking at him as a raw talent, watch these videos of him then tell me honestly that you're not impressed. ( you'll have to figure out whatever bias you have beyond that)

Film Session: Dwayne Haskins Preps for Northwestern | Ohio ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l1167E8_LM



Dwayne Haskins Film Analysis - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu08P-dh8gY

 

[Stymietee]

Gruden didn't intentionally set Haksins back but inadvertently he did by putting his own agenda ahead of the teams. Gruden coached to not get fired through 5 games. Anotherwards, he didn't "coach everyone up", as he could have. Again, I say there is blame all around here. Gruden is gone, let's move on...

I agree, he made a choice between the thin hope of getting by with a Kirk Cousins clone who didn't have the experience that Kirk had in running his offense and the new kid that he didn't want with a tremendous potential upside. Honestly, he was screwed either way and if he needs help in identifying who's screwed him, here's a hint!




With a big assist from this guy!

 

[Skins2021]

There is something more to it and it all centers around this organization's uncanny ability to take players who can ball and turn them into question marks.

So glad that you asked the question and listed the players that you did. In every case I researched each of them and posted my conclusions. (Keep in mind that I advocate a time to sit and learn for ALL new QB's entering the NFL

Patrick Ramsey was a raw talent who was mentally destroyed by impatience. Dude had a canon attached to his shoulders and a pea inside of his head. There was nothing truly positive to defend with this guy.

Kirk Cousin is turning out to be the exact guy that I described him to be when he became a starter here. I will admit that my initial observations of him changed as he played and I always refer to him as a "pretty good QB." I stand by that assessment.

Gus Ferotte Said it then and say it now, he was merely OK. He greatest strength came from the supporting cast around him and luck in being the back-up to Heath Shuler. He's most famous for head butting a thinly padded cement wall on a Monday night game. A journeyman at best. Again nothing special to defend.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in relation to Haskins! I have researched him as throughly as any of the others and whatever you're seeing I'm NOT!

He is as talented as one could ask for in a player with his limited experiences in school. It's all there for anyone with an unbiased eye to see and perhaps that explains your reliance to ONLY see his limited experience thus far. Never mind that he entered that game without any first team reps, no package of plays to be used by the back-up QB in the event that he had to enter the game, no preparation whatsoever!. Tell you what, try looking at him as a raw talent, watch these videos of him then tell me honestly that you're not impressed. ( you'll have to figure out whatever bias you have beyond that)

Film Session: Dwayne Haskins Preps for Northwestern | Ohio ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l1167E8_LM
View attachment 220090


Dwayne Haskins Film Analysis - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu08P-dh8gY

Haskins looks like Campbell in the pocket.... which is why Campbell flamed out in the NFL fairly quickly. Slowwwwwww long release. It will kill an NFL qb

The most successful QBs have quick releases.

Its also funny you question Pat Ramsey intelligence. The guy played in more complicated offenses then Haskins and was able to start in the fun and gun (which also got him killed and shortened his career).

Ramsey intelligence was never questioned and I don't remember him struggling to call plays like Haskins has

The dude cant even get the huddle lined up correctly and call out a play and you have this much faith and are willing to die on this hill..

Did you defend Jason Campbell and RG3 as much as you are defending Haskins?

 

[Skins2021]

Campbell was also the worst QB I have seen play for the Redskins over the last 20 years minus John Beck

 

[j_y19]

Gruden didn't intentionally set Haksins back but inadvertently he did by putting his own agenda ahead of the teams. Gruden coached to not get fired through 5 games. Anotherwards, he didn't "coach everyone up", as he could have. Again, I say there is blame all around here. Gruden is gone, let's move on...

Oh, I agree. He knew that Haskins was not the one to provide a chance immediate wins, which he needed. So he didn't prioritize the development of Haskins because his focus was all short term. In a way, that his also the front office's fault. They knew the position that Gruden was in so they let it happen. They should have fired Gruden before the season began or given him new priorities for this year to save his job. Those priorities were first and foremost the development of Haskins for next year.

 

[Stymietee]

Haskins looks like Campbell in the pocket.... which is why Campbell flamed out in the NFL fairly quickly. Slowwwwwww long release. It will kill an NFL qb

The most successful QBs have quick releases.

Its also funny you question Pat Ramsey intelligence. The guy played in more complicated offenses then Haskins and was able to start in the fun and gun (which also got him killed and shortened his career).

Ramsey intelligence was never questioned and I don't remember him struggling to call plays like Haskins has

The dude cant even get the huddle lined up correctly and call out a play and you have this much faith and are willing to die on this hill..

Did you defend Jason Campbell and RG3 as much as you are defending Haskins?

What the hell are you talking about? There's nothing wrong with his release time, see:

Video Analysis: Dwayne Haskins’ Arm Strength, Release Time ...

I know that you're making shit up out of whole cloth, and, on top of it all, intimating while projecting some sort of race based bias that you clearly have. Now, I let it go in your previous attempt (last post) even tried to give you an out by answering your query in a respectful manner. However, let us be clear on one thing if we are going to proceed. I'm NOT the one for you to attempt to pull that shit with, so stay in your lane!

Moving on, since you named him , it's instructive recalling the numerous questions about Griffin's intelligence in not being able or willing to protect himself, and, the same not applied to Ramsey at a time in which he was being pummeled by NFL defenses. I said it at the time, and I'll say it now, Ramsey was a complete idiot in not protecting himself and his career in Steve Spurrier's dumb assed offense. Hence the pea brained comment.

I gave Jason Campbell the same sort of consideration that I give every potential QB that is drafted by this organization, Same thing with Griffin, Cousins, Theesman, (yes I know) , and all of the rest.

 

[Stymietee]

Throwing Haskins in on a hopeless team might be detrimental to his growth... not beneficial. Yes we all wanna see him get experience but do we really think he'll gain confidence with this Oline that he'd be behind. Might get shell shocked and turn into another David carr who got sacked more often during his rookie year then Betty Lou did in her last year of high school. Im in no rush to see Haskins out there. Let him sit out this losing year and start fresh next year with more prep, new coach and attitude.

Note to self: Look up Betty Lou

"Shell Shocked" see: Patrick Ramsey (been there, done that)

 

[Stymietee]

Oh, I agree. He knew that Haskins was not the one to provide a chance immediate wins, which he needed. So he didn't prioritize the development of Haskins because his focus was all short term. In a way, that his also the front office's fault. They knew the position that Gruden was in so they let it happen. They should have fired Gruden before the season began or given him new priorities for this year to save his job. Those priorities were first and foremost the development of Haskins for next year.

Let me be very, very clear about this, I absolutely do not disagree with what you're saying, however there are folks who will tell anyone who'll listen that Haskins could have done what Case and Colt did, perhaps better.

For the record, I maintain my original position dating back to Dickie Shiner in the 1964 draft. Sit them a year and allow them to be seasoned a bit. (Yeah, I'm THAT old)

*Shiner actually rarely played for Washington and sat for 3 or 4 years before being traded.