Has the era of haskins begun

[skinsdad62]

What the hell are you talking about? There's nothing wrong with his release time, see:

Video Analysis: Dwayne Haskins’ Arm Strength, Release Time ...

I know that you're making shit up out of whole cloth, and, on top of it all, intimating while projecting some sort of race based bias that you clearly have. Now, I let it go in your previous attempt (last post) even tried to give you an out by answering your query in a respectful manner. However, let us be clear on one thing if we are going to proceed. I'm NOT the one for you to attempt to pull that shit with, so stay in your lane!

Moving on, since you named him , it's instructive recalling the numerous questions about Griffin's intelligence in not being able or willing to protect himself, and, the same not applied to Ramsey at a time in which he was being pummeled by NFL defenses. I said it at the time, and I'll say it now, Ramsey was a complete idiot in not protecting himself and his career in Steve Spurrier's dumb assed offense. Hence the pea brained comment.

I gave Jason Campbell the same sort of consideration that I give every potential QB that is drafted by this organization, Same thing with Griffin, Cousins, Theesman, (yes I know) , and all of the rest.

kinda makes a mockery of the JC slow release BS

 

[skinz2winz]

Let me be very, very clear about this, I absolutely do not disagree with what you're saying, however there are folks who will tell anyone who'll listen that Haskins could have done what Case and Colt did, perhaps better.

For the record, I maintain my original position dating back to Dickie Shiner in the 1964 draft. Sit them a year and allow them to be seasoned a bit. (Yeah, I'm THAT old)

*Shiner actually rarely played for Washington and sat for 3 or 4 years before being traded.

Knowledge is power, thanks sty!

 

[Skins2021]

What the hell are you talking about? There's nothing wrong with his release time, see:

Video Analysis: Dwayne Haskins’ Arm Strength, Release Time ...

I know that you're making shit up out of whole cloth, and, on top of it all, intimating while projecting some sort of race based bias that you clearly have. Now, I let it go in your previous attempt (last post) even tried to give you an out by answering your query in a respectful manner. However, let us be clear on one thing if we are going to proceed. I'm NOT the one for you to attempt to pull that shit with, so stay in your lane!

Moving on, since you named him , it's instructive recalling the numerous questions about Griffin's intelligence in not being able or willing to protect himself, and, the same not applied to Ramsey at a time in which he was being pummeled by NFL defenses. I said it at the time, and I'll say it now, Ramsey was a complete idiot in not protecting himself and his career in Steve Spurrier's dumb assed offense. Hence the pea brained comment.

I gave Jason Campbell the same sort of consideration that I give every potential QB that is drafted by this organization, Same thing with Griffin, Cousins, Theesman, (yes I know) , and all of the rest.

what.are.you.talking.about? I think almost every single Skins fan vehemently defended RG3 for a least 1 season. He was the best rookie I've ever seen. No racial bias there.

Gus Ferotte - I agree with your assessment and at the time QB was our biggest weakness until Brad Johnson

Kirk Cousins I mostly agree. His floor is 'good quarterback' his ceiling is 'very good quarterback' IMO

Patrick Ramsey pea brain? I don't think so. The guy ran for public office for god sake. He played in tougher offenses then Haskins and was hung out to dry by Spurrier's fun and gun 5 WR sets no pass protection. He was killed and became shell shocked. He could have easily thrived in literally any other system.

Sure Haskins has excellent arm talent but so does pretty much every other QB drafted in round over last 10 years minus Alex Smith.

Haskins can not get the ball out of his hands just like Campbell and that will be what kills him. Minshew for Jax doesn't have greatest arm talent but he's decisive, quick, and gets the ball out without the INTs. Would prefer those attributes over crazy arm talent.

He's slow in the pocket and the ball takes long to come out of his hands. I saw this in the preseason. I saw this in his relief effort. I saw this at OSU when he played tough defenses. If he has all day the guy can throw dime after dime but that's college not the NFL.

The only bias I have is that he played for Ohio State who I absolutely despise almost as much as Notre Dame. You will defend him till the end of time, so what is your bias?

I don't even care about experience, accuracy on the move, and mobility because that all can be coached up but these weaknesses from scouting reports that I have also seen in his game are alarming.

Below is all from Haskins scouting report:

Mechanics –Does have a little bit of a drop of the ball in his delivery, nothing egregious but there's a slight delay from when he mentally pulls the trigger and when the ball shoots out. Pretty compact otherwise and gets over the top at his release point.

Footwork –Requires some real estate, can be a bit of a long strider in delivery and when handcuffed allows the ball to get away from him. Quick snap on sudden throws to the flat. Shows good lower body rotation when he's afforded a sizable amount of space.


Unusual follow through leaving his lower half behind
· Still learning to attack zone coverage

· Baited into bad decisions on high-low reads

· Doesn't show enough caution against dropping linebackers

· Will need to improve anticipatory intermediate throws

· Has to be willing to come off primary reads when coverage dictates it

· Needs to expedite his process in the face of pressure

· Needs better feel for when to throw with touch

 

[Stymietee]

what.are.you.talking.about? I think almost every single Skins fan vehemently defended RG3 for a least 1 season. He was the best rookie I've ever seen. No racial bias there.

Gus Ferotte - I agree with your assessment and at the time QB was our biggest weakness until Brad Johnson

Kirk Cousins I mostly agree. His floor is 'good quarterback' his ceiling is 'very good quarterback' IMO

Patrick Ramsey pea brain? I don't think so. The guy ran for public office for god sake. He played in tougher offenses then Haskins and was hung out to dry by Spurrier's fun and gun 5 WR sets no pass protection. He was killed and became shell shocked. He could have easily thrived in literally any other system.

Sure Haskins has excellent arm talent but so does pretty much every other QB drafted in round over last 10 years minus Alex Smith.

Haskins can not get the ball out of his hands just like Campbell and that will be what kills him. Minshew for Jax doesn't have greatest arm talent but he's decisive, quick, and gets the ball out without the INTs. Would prefer those attributes over crazy arm talent.

He's slow in the pocket and the ball takes long to come out of his hands. I saw this in the preseason. I saw this in his relief effort. I saw this at OSU when he played tough defenses. If he has all day the guy can throw dime after dime but that's college not the NFL.

The only bias I have is that he played for Ohio State who I absolutely despise almost as much as Notre Dame. You will defend him till the end of time, so what is your bias?

I don't even care about experience, accuracy on the move, and mobility because that all can be coached up but these weaknesses from scouting reports that I have also seen in his game are alarming.

Below is all from Haskins scouting report:

Mechanics –Does have a little bit of a drop of the ball in his delivery, nothing egregious but there's a slight delay from when he mentally pulls the trigger and when the ball shoots out. Pretty compact otherwise and gets over the top at his release point.

Footwork –Requires some real estate, can be a bit of a long strider in delivery and when handcuffed allows the ball to get away from him. Quick snap on sudden throws to the flat. Shows good lower body rotation when he's afforded a sizable amount of space.


Unusual follow through leaving his lower half behind
· Still learning to attack zone coverage

· Baited into bad decisions on high-low reads

· Doesn't show enough caution against dropping linebackers

· Will need to improve anticipatory intermediate throws

· Has to be willing to come off primary reads when coverage dictates it

· Needs to expedite his process in the face of pressure

· Needs better feel for when to throw with touch

Let's start with the first thing concerning RGIII. I was not among his vehement defenders, I believed that the organization mishandled him from the start. In fact , I still believe this, and the resurrection of his career in Baltimore made the case for that, when everyone else declared his career over. I get it, some people can't make the distinction between attacking the organization and defending the player, but that of course, is their issue.

Be honest, you didn't check out any of the video's that I provided for you, did you? Instead you post something without a true reference and expect me to believe that you didn't make it up because of your admitted bias against O State? Maybe you did find it somewhere and relied upon that because it depicted him in the worse light possible and that's OK too! However, I have to caution you, I too searched for every negative thing that I could find on the guy and found nothing close to what you've posted here. That's OK, so to be fair to you, provide the link, I'll go through it, and we can go from there.

One other thing, you said nothing about the bias towards Griffin and his reluctance to protect himself and Ramsey who also failed to protect himself. I also believe that it was Heath Shuler who ran for congress, not Ramsey. Perhaps he ran for a state office somewhere but that's inconsequential to our conversation. Why, because I also tossed my hat into the political ring at an earlier point in my life. It doesn't make one smarter, in fact, some will argue that it can be reason to question the sanity of the candidate.

I await that link.

 

[Stymietee]

Dwayne Haskins rebukes idea that he can’t read ...
| Redskins Wiredwayne-haskins-rebukes-the-idea-that-he...

 

[Sportster 72]

We'll have to disagree Sty. He had one year of reading college defenses, not calling plays and I could go on. As mentioned it doesn't mean he can't learn but his half of football suggest he still a ways away.

Holy crap!!! You pulled out the Dick Shiner card??

 

[gkekoa]

what.are.you.talking.about? I think almost every single Skins fan vehemently defended RG3 for a least 1 season. He was the best rookie I've ever seen. No racial bias there.

Gus Ferotte - I agree with your assessment and at the time QB was our biggest weakness until Brad Johnson

Kirk Cousins I mostly agree. His floor is 'good quarterback' his ceiling is 'very good quarterback' IMO

Patrick Ramsey pea brain? I don't think so. The guy ran for public office for god sake. He played in tougher offenses then Haskins and was hung out to dry by Spurrier's fun and gun 5 WR sets no pass protection. He was killed and became shell shocked. He could have easily thrived in literally any other system.

Sure Haskins has excellent arm talent but so does pretty much every other QB drafted in round over last 10 years minus Alex Smith.

Haskins can not get the ball out of his hands just like Campbell and that will be what kills him. Minshew for Jax doesn't have greatest arm talent but he's decisive, quick, and gets the ball out without the INTs. Would prefer those attributes over crazy arm talent.

He's slow in the pocket and the ball takes long to come out of his hands. I saw this in the preseason. I saw this in his relief effort. I saw this at OSU when he played tough defenses. If he has all day the guy can throw dime after dime but that's college not the NFL.

The only bias I have is that he played for Ohio State who I absolutely despise almost as much as Notre Dame. You will defend him till the end of time, so what is your bias?

I don't even care about experience, accuracy on the move, and mobility because that all can be coached up but these weaknesses from scouting reports that I have also seen in his game are alarming.

Below is all from Haskins scouting report:

Mechanics –Does have a little bit of a drop of the ball in his delivery, nothing egregious but there's a slight delay from when he mentally pulls the trigger and when the ball shoots out. Pretty compact otherwise and gets over the top at his release point.

Footwork –Requires some real estate, can be a bit of a long strider in delivery and when handcuffed allows the ball to get away from him. Quick snap on sudden throws to the flat. Shows good lower body rotation when he's afforded a sizable amount of space.


Unusual follow through leaving his lower half behind
· Still learning to attack zone coverage

· Baited into bad decisions on high-low reads

· Doesn't show enough caution against dropping linebackers

· Will need to improve anticipatory intermediate throws

· Has to be willing to come off primary reads when coverage dictates it

· Needs to expedite his process in the face of pressure

· Needs better feel for when to throw with touch

The only thing I will mention is the public office statement.

The dumbest pilot I know runs for public office every time he can.

We currently have a member in Congress that believes Guam will flip over if we put to many people on one side of it.

It is,literally about money when it comes to getting elected.

 

[Stymietee]

We'll have to disagree Sty. He had one year of reading college defenses, not calling plays and I could go on. As mentioned it doesn't mean he can't learn but his half of football suggest he still a ways away.

Holy crap!!! You pulled out the Dick Shiner card??

I knew that you would disagree, but surely, you know that based upon your notion, there are and have been, zero college QB's who have experience reading pro defenses, right? Let us agree upon the fact that there are fundamental or basic principals to reading defenses and I have posted video that clearly demonstrated Haskins having clear knowledge on how this is done. If we can do that, then we can agree that all he has to do is familiarize himself to how pro defenses disguise what they do that's different from the college game. Right?

In other words, once you know how to do it, you KNOW HOW to do it! The principals remain constant, what changes is how one level of defensive play differs from the other in terms of hiding what they do. You still have to "see" where the safeties are , identify the "Mike" note if the corners are playing tight or not, "see" the Lb'ers (3-4 or 4-3) adjust for shifts and be able to account for 11. ALL the rest is just tendencies. As you know, throughout the history of two platoon football, innovation generally comes from the offensive side of the ball, defenses merely adjust because of those offensive changes.

Correct me if I've forgotten something, but wasn't the 46 defense the last innovative change on defense? That was in 1985!!

 

[Stymietee]

We'll have to disagree Sty. He had one year of reading college defenses, not calling plays and I could go on. As mentioned it doesn't mean he can't learn but his half of football suggest he still a ways away.

Holy crap!!! You pulled out the Dick Shiner card??

About Shiner:
Few here know the story because Jurgensen has become a beloved hero of the past, but I attended a game in 1965 against the Goat-ropers in which our team was quickly down 21-0. Boos, most aimed at Sonny were accompanied with calls for Shiner. I can still hear them to this day... Alternate chants of "We want Shiner!" "We want the rif-le-man!" filled the stadium. Sonny stayed in despite the calls and rallied the team to a beautiful comeback win. What a great day that was, however, for a brief moment, the most popular guy in all of Washington was, Dick "the Rifleman" Shiner!!

 

[Sportster 72]

I knew that you would disagree, but surely, you know that based upon your notion, there are and have been, zero college QB's who have experience reading pro defenses, right? Let us agree upon the fact that there are fundamental or basic principals to reading defenses and I have posted video that clearly demonstrated Haskins having clear knowledge on how this is done. If we can do that, then we can agree that all he has to do is familiarize himself to how pro defenses disguise what they do that's different from the college game. Right?

In other words, once you know how to do it, you KNOW HOW to do it! The principals remain constant, what changes is how one level of defensive play differs from the other in terms of hiding what they do. You still have to "see" where the safeties are , identify the "Mike" note if the corners are playing tight or not, "see" the Lb'ers (3-4 or 4-3) adjust for shifts and be able to account for 11. ALL the rest is just tendencies. As you know, throughout the history of two platoon football, innovation generally comes from the offensive side of the ball, defenses merely adjust because of those offensive changes.

Correct me if I've forgotten something, but wasn't the 46 defense the last innovative change on defense? That was in 1985!!

I am beating a dead horse here Sty. I told you what I think and there are only so many ways to say he is not ready yet. Put him in like Peyton who I believe started from day 1 and threw 22 Ints.

You have decided he has been wronged and aren't about to change your mind and I have decided he just needs time to learn. He can learn the old fashioned way or he can learn the new way which is to play him and let him learn from seeing and making mistakes.

 

[Stymietee]

I am beating a dead horse here Sty. I told you what I think and there are only so many ways to say he is not ready yet. Put him in like Peyton who I believe started from day 1 and threw 22 Ints.

You have decided he has been wronged and aren't about to change your mind and I have decided he just needs time to learn. He can learn the old fashioned way or he can learn the new way which is to play him and let him learn from seeing and making mistakes.

First of all. I haven't decided that he's been wronged beyond having been selected to arguably the most dysfunctional team in the NFL. It is on that point that I stake my claim that he is being poorly prepared. In fact, considering the talent on this team, I'm stating outright that many on this team are being poorly prepared. Sure he isn't ready yet, that's a given, so you're debating yourself on that point. HOW he is/was being prepared or rather ill-prepared was the question when Gruden was in charge given the publicly stated things that he "needed to work on." Finally, a question... How is it possible for anyone to clearly note the dysfunction of this organization and not understand that dysfunction affects every aspect of said organization?

 

[Sportster 72]

I knew that you would disagree, but surely, you know that based upon your notion, there are and have been, zero college QB's who have experience reading pro defenses, right? Let us agree upon the fact that there are fundamental or basic principals to reading defenses and I have posted video that clearly demonstrated Haskins having clear knowledge on how this is done. If we can do that, then we can agree that all he has to do is familiarize himself to how pro defenses disguise what they do that's different from the college game. Right?

In other words, once you know how to do it, you KNOW HOW to do it! The principals remain constant, what changes is how one level of defensive play differs from the other in terms of hiding what they do. You still have to "see" where the safeties are , identify the "Mike" note if the corners are playing tight or not, "see" the Lb'ers (3-4 or 4-3) adjust for shifts and be able to account for 11. ALL the rest is just tendencies. As you know, throughout the history of two platoon football, innovation generally comes from the offensive side of the ball, defenses merely adjust because of those offensive changes.

Correct me if I've forgotten something, but wasn't the 46 defense the last innovative change on defense? That was in 1985!!

The 46 defense was impactful for a year or two and the talent made it as successful as it was. It didn't work so well for Buddy in Philly.

Tampa 2 was probably more widely used than the 46, not probably … it was. Tony Dungy.

 

[Sportster 72]

Let's start with the first thing concerning RGIII. I was not among his vehement defenders, I believed that the organization mishandled him from the start. In fact , I still believe this, and the resurrection of his career in Baltimore made the case for that, when everyone else declared his career over. I get it, some people can't make the distinction between attacking the organization and defending the player, but that of course, is their issue.

Be honest, you didn't check out any of the video's that I provided for you, did you? Instead you post something without a true reference and expect me to believe that you didn't make it up because of your admitted bias against O State? Maybe you did find it somewhere and relied upon that because it depicted him in the worse light possible and that's OK too! However, I have to caution you, I too searched for every negative thing that I could find on the guy and found nothing close to what you've posted here. That's OK, so to be fair to you, provide the link, I'll go through it, and we can go from there.

One other thing, you said nothing about the bias towards Griffin and his reluctance to protect himself and Ramsey who also failed to protect himself. I also believe that it was Heath Shuler who ran for congress, not Ramsey. Perhaps he ran for a state office somewhere but that's inconsequential to our conversation. Why, because I also tossed my hat into the political ring at an earlier point in my life. It doesn't make one smarter, in fact, some will argue that it can be reason to question the sanity of the candidate.

I await that link.

Nope, I didn't watch your videos. You can find things to support either side so I don't bother. If the kid was ready to start now he would. I do think he will start in a couple of weeks once the FO figures more than 2 games behind the NFC East leader is insurmountable.

Who the hell said Ramsey ran for office? Shuler was a congressman from the western part of NC.

 

[Stymietee]

Nope, I didn't watch your videos. You can find things to support either side so I don't bother. If the kid was ready to start now he would. I do think he will start in a couple of weeks once the FO figures more than 2 games behind the NFC East leader is insurmountable.

Who the hell said Ramsey ran for office? Shuler was a congressman from the western part of NC.

That post was not intended for you! It was in response to something posted by @S-2021. Seriously, feel better ole' friend!

 

[Sportster 72]

Thanks Sty, I am okay. Just caught a bug.

 

[Sharkinva]

Haskins is the next year they will be better moment they will hold in reserve to keep the fans interested after another dismal season. The only way he see's the field again this year is if Case and Colt are both injured and cant play.

On the bright side, looks like the Skins will have a top five pick that we can use on a LT even if there is a better player available... cause draft for need after all.

Thats my cameo for the week,

 

[Sportster 72]

Glad to see your cameo.

 

[Sportster 72]

I have heard several suggest this and I agree. The team has a short week coming up so stick with Case since there are only three days to prepare.

The game after that is Buffalo, they have 10 days to get Dwayne ready. Start him against Buffalo. That is followed by the bye so they have 2 weeks to prepare him for his 2nd start.

After Minnesota they are likely 1-7. There is no reason not to start Haskins. They don't have to give him the entire play book. Give him some things he is comfortable with.

 

[j_y19]

I have heard several suggest this and I agree. The team has a short week coming up so stick with Case since there are only three days to prepare.

The game after that is Buffalo, they have 10 days to get Dwayne ready. Start him against Buffalo. That is followed by the bye so they have 2 weeks to prepare him for his 2nd start.

After Minnesota they are likely 1-7. There is no reason not to start Haskins. They don't have to give him the entire play book. Give him some things he is comfortable with.

Makes sense to me.

 

[chillerdab]

The way I see it, Haskins can stare down McLovin’, and hold on to the ball for too long just as well as Keenum can.

Maybe he wont float crappy balls to Quinn, or bounce a throw to Richardson, or completely ignore Harmon for entire games in his starts.

Bonus.