Sherman Returns

[chf]

I agree he gets rid of veterans more than anyone - which is why he was my example that even he keeps the right veterans around.

I think there's more than a few of the guys on the list I linked that you'd have trouble describing as anything other than 'right.' Ty Law?

 

[Mariners_44]

I think your example of Baldwin is a perfect illustrator. There's been some noise online and in the media about him being a malcontent too recently, that Doug is spreading rumours about Wilson. Some people consider him a perfect team guy, some people don't.

Pretty subjective.

If I had to bet, Doug won't be here next year. He's one of my favorite Hawks, but you would have to imagine he wouldn't be willing to take a pay cut even though his contributions haven't justified the contract. Maybe a Golden Tate reunion?

 

[JMR]

If I had to bet, Doug won't be here next year. He's one of my favorite Hawks, but you would have to imagine he wouldn't be willing to take a pay cut even though his contributions haven't justified the contract. Maybe a Golden Tate reunion?

Yeah, I think Baldwin's future with the team is in question. His '19 cap number is $13.1M, and we could save $6.8M by cutting him. Each situation has its own merits, but lately it seems the team is reluctant to hold onto expensive 30+ y/o players.

The Tate thing is interesting. He's also 30, but that may make him a bit more affordable if we are looking at a reunion. He was never really a burner, but in the games I've seen him this year he doesn't look as quick or elusive as he did when he first got to Detroit. I would guess right now that we go cheaper/younger at WR with Lockett, Moore & Brown as the top 3 guys and spend FA dollars on pass rush, re-signing Kendricks, and maybe re-signing KJ (though he is creeping into that expensive 30 y/o category).

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Yeah, I think Baldwin's future with the team is in question. His '19 cap number is $13.1M, and we could save $6.8M by cutting him. Each situation has its own merits, but lately it seems the team is reluctant to hold onto expensive 30+ y/o players.

The Tate thing is interesting. He's also 30, but that may make him a bit more affordable if we are looking at a reunion. He was never really a burner, but in the games I've seen him this year he doesn't look as quick or elusive as he did when he first got to Detroit. I would guess right now that we go cheaper/younger at WR with Lockett, Moore & Brown as the top 3 guys and spend FA dollars on pass rush, re-signing Kendricks, and maybe re-signing KJ (though he is creeping into that expensive 30 y/o category).

Wasn't there a rumor that part of the reason that Tate was dealt was because he shtuped Russell Wilson's (then) wife? If that rumor has any merit I wouldn't ever expect to see Tate play on another team with Wilson.

 

[JMR]

Wasn't there a rumor that part of the reason that Tate was dealt was because he shtuped Russell Wilson's (then) wife? If that rumor has any merit I wouldn't ever expect to see Tate play on another team with Wilson.

Yep, that was indeed the rumor. Wouldn't be the first rumor to be false, but who knows. If true, yeah, no way does the team bring him back.

 

[Mariners_44]

Yeah, I think Baldwin's future with the team is in question. His '19 cap number is $13.1M, and we could save $6.8M by cutting him. Each situation has its own merits, but lately it seems the team is reluctant to hold onto expensive 30+ y/o players.

The Tate thing is interesting. He's also 30, but that may make him a bit more affordable if we are looking at a reunion. He was never really a burner, but in the games I've seen him this year he doesn't look as quick or elusive as he did when he first got to Detroit. I would guess right now that we go cheaper/younger at WR with Lockett, Moore & Brown as the top 3 guys and spend FA dollars on pass rush, re-signing Kendricks, and maybe re-signing KJ (though he is creeping into that expensive 30 y/o category).

I agree in where the offseason focus should be in that acquiring pass rush and re-signing Kendricks (he has become one of my favorite new regime Hawks), but considering KJ's recent injury issues I think he's as good as gone.

On the Tate front, I just don't see him expecting much in salary. He too burned a trail on his way out of town, and if he bumped uglies with Russ' lady then there's no way he returns. I just find his strength and durability intriguing as a solid veteran pick up.

 

[seattlefan75]

If I had to choose between paying more for DB and paying less for Tate I would go with DB and pay him the 13 million. I really do not believe Tate will look to accept any friendly deal I believe that was the main reason why the lions traded him away because they were not close on signing an extension.

Going back to what I said earlier it is not a good look for the seahawks to be cutting veteran players when they are due a good salary especially on the back end after playing hard the first 2 years of that 4 year deal. Agents see this, players see this, and this will be an issue when signing players to an extension and signing free agents. They don't want to get screwed over if they would do something like this to a leader and positive influencer like DB imagine a new guy signing to the team would feel like?

 

[seattlefan75]

If draft another receiver which I think is a possibility we will need DB to help develop them like he did Lockett and Moore THEN when his contract is up in 2020 we can part ways

 

[JMR]

Going back to what I said earlier it is not a good look for the seahawks to be cutting veteran players when they are due a good salary especially on the back end after playing hard the first 2 years of that 4 year deal. Agents see this, players see this, and this will be an issue when signing players to an extension and signing free agents. They don't want to get screwed over if they would do something like this to a leader and positive influencer like DB imagine a new guy signing to the team would feel like?

Yeah, I don't know about all that. There's a difference between a 2nd and 3rd contract. It's not just the Seahawks who have a harder time giving big money to older players. Britt got a 2nd contract here. So did Lockett. And Baldwin, Sherman, ET, Kam, Wagner, KJ, Lynch, etc. Of course Russell too. 3rd contract is a different animal.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

Yep, that was indeed the rumor. Wouldn't be the first rumor to be false, but who knows. If true, yeah, no way does the team bring him back.

From what I remember, I actually think most of the animosity is from Tate towards Wilson. I know Tate was pretty adamant that the rumor was nonsense and was frustrated that Wilson didn't do more to throw water on it. But that was a while ago... assuming the rumor actually was false, I'm sure that's a fixable issue.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

If draft another receiver which I think is a possibility we will need DB to help develop them like he did Lockett and Moore THEN when his contract is up in 2020 we can part ways

Considering the Seahawks could save $7M by cutting Baldwin, I'd rather leave the development process to Carroll's kid.

 

[seattlefan75]

Yeah, I don't know about all that. There's a difference between a 2nd and 3rd contract. It's not just the Seahawks who have a harder time giving big money to older players. Britt got a 2nd contract here. So did Lockett. And Baldwin, Sherman, ET, Kam, Wagner, KJ, Lynch, etc. Of course Russell too. 3rd contract is a different animal.

Well in my opinion your rookie contract really doesn't count its that 2nd "payday" contract and usually that ends around age 30-31. Right now DB is on that payday contract and if you release him before he gets the more lucrative 2 remaining years believe me if I am frank clark I am telling hawks management to front load my money because you aren't going to cut me my last 2 years like you did DB

 

[JMR]

Well in my opinion your rookie contract really doesn't count its that 2nd "payday" contract and usually that ends around age 30-31. Right now DB is on that payday contract and if you release him before he gets the more lucrative 2 remaining years believe me if I am frank clark I am telling hawks management to front load my money because you aren't going to cut me my last 2 years like you did DB

Well, the reality of the league is that the 3rd contract for a player is the friction point, whether you feel the rookie contract "counts" or not. Frank Clark is 25 years old, so he wouldn't have 2 years remaining on his deal when he hit 30 unless they sign him to like 6 years, which is highly unusual. When he hits 30, he'll be looking at his 3rd contract.

In the case of Baldwin, he's already more or less on his 3rd contract. Had a 3 year deal as an UDFA in 2011, got another 3 year deal in 2014 when he was a RFA, then got a 4 year extension 2 years ago when he had 1 year left on that 2nd contract.

I suspect that players other than QBs who sign deals that extend beyond the age of 30 realize that the back end of those contracts stand a good chance of never happening.

 

[MKHawk]

I have serious issues with how he left town. He trashed most of the people who invested in him when he came into the league and while he was here. He was 30, making $15M a year (or whatever it was) and coming off a serious injury, yet acted like it was the blindside of the century when he was cut. He took a business decision personally for no good reason. Time heals, but while he's being pouty and ungrateful about it all, it'll be awfully hard for me to cheer.

What's your stance on Griffey (assuming you're an M's fan)?

 

[Podunkparte]

Am I going crazy or have 2 of you today supported resigning a guy who's definitely going to prison after this season?

 

[MKHawk]

Am I going crazy or have 2 of you today supported resigning a guy who's definitely going to prison after this season?

Skimmed the thread, but if you're counting me, nope. I'm just in favor of using him for the rest of this season.

 

[JMR]

What's your stance on Griffey (assuming you're an M's fan)?

It was disappointing that he wanted to leave. Just like I have said will happen with Sherm, you get over it after a while.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

Based off his press conference with 49ers beat writers, Sherman:

- Doesn't like Russell
- Still mad at the Seahawks

 

[JMR]

I listened to the "highlights" of Sherman's presser, and I also listened to Doug Baldwin's presser. What stood out to me on the Baldwin piece was when they asked him about what kind of reception he thought Sherm would get in light of how things ended, and Baldwin said that he hoped it would be positive based on (paraphrasing) all the great things he did for this team/city/franchise. Then they asked him if he thought Sherman was going to put the bad ending aside and instead go into the return to Seattle remembering all those positive moments, and Baldwin basically said that the human nature of it will make it hard to do so maybe not. So, I guess Baldwin thinks the fans should be expected to put the way he left town behind them, but Sherman doesn't have to? I thought it was interesting if not a bit hypocritical. And not all surprising.

Sherm definitely had a chance to give some compliments to his former QB but decided not to take it -- said he had "no relationship" with Russell, and that he's seen him throw 5 picks in a game as a comeback to being asked about how tough Russell is to play against or something like that. I don't really care about the relationship part, but I don't see what you get about bringing up a bad game over a 6 season stretch that included 5 playoff appearances and 2 SB trips. On the whole, not that big of a deal, but would it kill the guy to say something nice or positive about your former teammate when it's sitting right in front of you?

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

49ers' Sherman: No relationship with Wilson

Richard Sherman: Didn't really have relationship with Russell Wilson