POLL The Lakers, Spurs, Leonard, DeRozan, and the idiot Raptors

[WiggyRuss]

I have said it a few times- the 2 best comparisons to Ball, by far, are Rubio and Rondo. I think he will have a similar career to those guys. Good but not great players that are nifty passers, but have always had their ceilings limited by their shooting. Hopefully Ball stays healthy.

 

[Black Adam]

they should be happy if one of them is an all star someday.

out of those 4, Ingram most likely imo...

 

[msgkings322]

I have said it a few times- the 2 best comparisons to Ball, by far, are Rubio and Rondo. I think he will have a similar career to those guys. Good but not great players that are nifty passers, but have always had their ceilings limited by their shooting. Hopefully Ball stays healthy.

That's his most likely comp, with upside to Kidd and downside to someone I can't remember because they suck

 

[CitySushi]

I have said it a few times- the 2 best comparisons to Ball, by far, are Rubio and Rondo. I think he will have a similar career to those guys. Good but not great players that are nifty passers, but have always had their ceilings limited by their shooting. Hopefully Ball stays healthy.

It's not impossible to turn into a good shooter with enough work and dedication. Jason Kidd and John Stockton come to mind. Those guys were terrible entering the league and left being near elite 3 point shooters.

I think Ball's form will always hurt him. It's not just the form, but his route to shoot the ball leaves more room for error and consistency. He may not always have the exact release point because he's moving the ball a ton just to get to the peak.

Totally agree though with your Rubio comparison. I see them being very similar in their careers. The only difference is Rubio's an excellent defender. Time will tell on that end of the court from Lonzo, but he seems capable.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's not impossible to turn into a good shooter with enough work and dedication. Jason Kidd and John Stockton come to mind. Those guys were terrible entering the league and left being near elite 3 point shooters.

I think Ball's form will always hurt him. It's not just the form, but his route to shoot the ball leaves more room for error and consistency. He may not always have the exact release point because he's moving the ball a ton just to get to the peak.

Totally agree though with your Rubio comparison. I see them being very similar in their careers. The only difference is Rubio's an excellent defender. Time will tell on that end of the court from Lonzo, but he seems capable.

I think Lonzo can be a good defender- he already is a decent one which is rare for a rookie. Lonzo's knees worry me. HAving PRP at age 19 or 20 or whatver is not a good sign. Having a meniscus tear that early is not a good sign. In the grand scheme of things they are not deadly serious injuries- but as the saying goes in the NBA "tehre is no such thing as minor knee surgery for an NBA player". When you have a guy who is already having problems and swelling issues etc. that Ball has had-very rarely does that kind of stuff go away when your whole profession is about jumping, cutting etc. for years and years on end. Simply put- if at age 20 your knees are starting to give you some issues- what do you look like after a few years of playing on them do to you?

Kidd took a long time to get a consistent outside shot. It is DEFINITELY possible- but its usually a process that happens over years and years. Typically in the NBA there is an adjustment period to the league, etc. you improve, and then you try and really focus on thsoe areas that are holding you back. Shit- LeBron did not really get a totally effective jump shot until years and years into his NBA career- the book on him was just to let him shoot until he changed it- and that def. did not happen overnight. And you are right about Ball's form- its something that might restrict his improvement going forward as its akin to a super-slow release for an NFL QB.

 

[Mecca]

Tyreke: 37.2 min, 20.1 pts on 16.2 att, .458/.255/.748, 5.3 reb, 5.8 ast, .4 blk, 1.5 stl, 2.8 PF, 3.0 TO
Ball: 34.2 min, 10.2 pts on 10.8 att, .360/.305/.451, 6.9 reb, 7.2 ast, .8 blk, 1.7 stl, 2.3 PF, 2.6 TO

Tyreke scored more with better shooting percentages except from 3. Ball was better in every other phase of the game in fewer minutes. Your definition of "shit all over" is very different from mine. MCW is much the same, scored more on better shooting percentages and more attempts (except from 3) and lagged behind Ball in everything else other than steals, albeit in similar minutes.

Both Tyreke and MCW have talent, they just haven't had consistent opportunity. Tyreke has moved all over the place, and MCW can't stay healthy.

Tyreke Shit all over Lonzo.

With those assy shooting percentages from the field and free throw line, Lonzo should have been benched if there was a viable alternative.

Almost any other team would have sent his ass to the D league.

Put all the lipstick on that pig you like.

He had a decent rookie campaign...

It wasn't Great and most certainly wasn't historical.

That's the point.

Putting up a guys Rookie stats to prove he's better than the next guy is asinine when they don't have the same opportunities...* shots, playing time *

Tyreke is the perfect example.

Ditto for MCW.

Both had better stats than Lonzo.

Do you think both are better players?

Exactly.

Just like Lonzo isn't better than Rozier.

 

[Mecca]

thats pretty cool. very interesting.

What did that job entail, if you can even asnwer that question, lol.

Copying Morse code.

Lots of dits, da's and ditda ditda's.

 

[Black Adam]

Copying Morse code.

Lots of dits, da's and ditda ditda's.

gotta love security clearance...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Copying Morse code.

Lots of dits, da's and ditda ditda's.

could you pound out some morse code if you had to?

 

[Mecca]

could you pound out some morse code if you had to?

Unfortunately, yes.

Not nearly as well as I did back then.

But, I hear it everywhere....

One of the main reasons I don't watch broadcast television.

Back in the day, you could hear callsigns almost every time a show went to commercial.

It starts to fuck with you....Almost like being schizophrenic.

 

[shopson67]

Not only that- but you act like 30.5% is "better than" the 25.5% Evans shot from 3---- but Ball shot almost 6 shots a game behind the 3 pt line, while Evans had less than 2 attempts per game- prob. because he realized he sucks at that shot and hsouldnt take it. Id MUCH rather have a guy take less than 2 attempts per game and shoot 25.5% from 3, instead of just continuing to chuck up almost 6 three's a game and shoot 30.5% from 3.

Also, when you shoot .451 from the free throw line- you become almost unplayable. Will Ball even be able to stay on the court in crunch time situations this year? Its not like they can afford to just say- "Hey let the rookie keep chucking em up its not like we are doing anything this year anyway like last year". Evans at almost 75% a game was solid. I wouldnt have pulled Ball off the court in a lost season either- but if you are going to try and make the playoffs this year you cant have a guy shoointg 50% from the line on the court- usually its big men that have no shot we are discussing like this- but we are talking about a GUARD- in today's NBA where shooting has NEVER been more important.

Huge logic gap, lol. When it serves your argument (3 pointers), attempts is a deciding factor. When it doesn't (free throws), you ignore it. Ball only shooting 1.4 attempts at the FT line drastically skews that comparison.

I acknowledged that Evans is the better scorer. Ball was better IN EVERY OTHER FACET OF THE GAME. Only short-sighted basketball fans focus solely on scoring, especially with point guards.

 

[shopson67]

Tyreke Shit all over Lonzo.

With those assy shooting percentages from the field and free throw line, Lonzo should have been benched if there was a viable alternative.

Almost any other team would have sent his ass to the D league.

Put all the lipstick on that pig you like.

He had a decent rookie campaign...

It wasn't Great and most certainly wasn't historical.

That's the point.

Putting up a guys Rookie stats to prove he's better than the next guy is asinine when they don't have the same opportunities...* shots, playing time *

Tyreke is the perfect example.

Ditto for MCW.

Both had better stats than Lonzo.

Do you think both are better players?

Exactly.

Just like Lonzo isn't better than Rozier.

Why the fixation on shooting and scoring for PGs? Lonzo was better than both across the board in every other category (other than MCW with steals).

Oh, and Lonzo shits all over Rozier.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think Ball's form will always hurt him. It's not just the form, but his route to shoot the ball leaves more room for error and consistency. He may not always have the exact release point because he's moving the ball a ton just to get to the peak.

That's my biggest issue with Lonzo. Unless he completely reworks his shot, he will NEVER be a good shooter in the NBA. His shot gathering is slow and has a ton of movement. In college that wasn't a huge problem because he had time to gather slowly. But in the NBA he has to speed up the process which is necessarily going to bring a lot of variability into shooting.

 

[flyerhawk]

Why the fixation on shooting and scoring for PGs? Lonzo was better than both across the board in every other category (other than MCW with steals).

Oh, and Lonzo shits all over Rozier.

If Lonzo doesn't improve his shooting he will be out of the league in 4 years. You CANNOT shoot sub-50% from the stripe in the NBA especially as a guard.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's my biggest issue with Lonzo. Unless he completely reworks his shot, he will NEVER be a good shooter in the NBA. His shot gathering is slow and has a ton of movement. In college that wasn't a huge problem because he had time to gather slowly. But in the NBA he has to speed up the process which is necessarily going to bring a lot of variability into shooting.

I don't like his form either. I don't think it needs to be completely re-worked though (although I would prefer that he did). It's not like there haven't been very good shooters who had terrible form, including slow releases.

The main thing I don't like about his form is that in his "loop" that he makes to get the shot up, he brings the ball too low. Because of that, I don't think he'll ever be considered a good shooter.

Fortunately for him, because he's a pg, he doesn't have to be a good perimeter shooter.

But, to truly get close to the Jason Kidd level that seems to be his ceiling, he does need to be serviceable.

If he can get to around 34-35% from 3, that should be enough so that the defense can't just back off and dare him to shoot.

 

[trojanfan12]

If Lonzo doesn't improve his shooting he will be out of the league in 4 years. You CANNOT shoot sub-50% from the stripe in the NBA especially as a guard.

I doubt he'll be out of the league, he does too many other things well. But it will turn him into a career backup which, considering where he was drafted, would also make him a bust.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't like his form either. I don't think it needs to be completely re-worked though (although I would prefer that he did). It's not like there haven't been very good shooters who had terrible form, including slow releases.

The main thing I don't like about his form is that in his "loop" that he makes to get the shot up, he brings the ball too low. Because of that, I don't think he'll ever be considered a good shooter.

Fortunately for him, because he's a pg, he doesn't have to be a good perimeter shooter.

But, to truly get close to the Jason Kidd level that seems to be his ceiling, he does need to be serviceable.

If he can get to around 34-35% from 3, that should be enough so that the defense can't just back off and dare him to shoot.

I agree that he doesn't have to become a good shooter given his skill set, just a competent one.

I'm curious to see if he will be jacking as many 3s this year as he did last year. Last year, the Lakers knew they weren't going anywhere so it was fine for Ball to keep clanging shots off the rim. Now they want to be good and there is no way that Lebron is going to tolerate Ball being a brick layer.

If Ball isn't going to be as much of a perimeter shooter as he was last year then he will likely need to improve his drive to the net game some more.

 

[flyerhawk]

I doubt he'll be out of the league, he does too many other things well. But it will turn him into a career backup which, considering where he was drafted, would also make him a bust.

I can't think of a single guard who has ever stuck in the league with a 50% FT percentage.

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree that he doesn't have to become a good shooter given his skill set, just a competent one.

I'm curious to see if he will be jacking as many 3s this year as he did last year. Last year, the Lakers knew they weren't going anywhere so it was fine for Ball to keep clanging shots off the rim. Now they want to be good and there is no way that Lebron is going to tolerate Ball being a brick layer.

If Ball isn't going to be as much of a perimeter shooter as he was last year then he will likely need to improve his drive to the net game some more.

Yep, agree with all of this. Last year the Lakers were actually encouraging him to shoot. The results were a bit uneven.

He started off truly terrible and was shooting it in the 25% or so range. But the Lakers kept encouraging him to shoot. He actually started to improve and was hitting at about 34-35% when he got hurt (which is how he got it up to 30%).

It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. I think this season could make or break his career. Magic told him in his exit interview that this will be the biggest summer of his life. I think that if he doesn't show expected improvement, the Lakers will move on from him pretty quickly.

When the Lakers landed Lebron, "shit got real" for the entire organization and the fans. Lebron might be good with 1 "development season", but he's not going to be good with 3. Plus, Lakers fans, who were good with waiting for the kids to develop, will now be expecting bigger things going forward.

 

[flyerhawk]

When the Lakers landed Lebron, "shit got real" for the entire organization and the fans. Lebron might be good with 1 "development season", but he's not going to be good with 3. Plus, Lakers fans, who were good with waiting for the kids to develop, will now be expecting bigger things going forward.

Pretty much. The era of letting young kids develop into something has ended and now those kids will be expected to step up. It will be interesting to see which ones do and don't.