POLL The Lakers, Spurs, Leonard, DeRozan, and the idiot Raptors

[trojanfan12]

my biggest issue with Lonzo is that he doesnt have any offensive game. He cant shoot and cant get to the rim. You GOTTA be able to do one or the other and hes terrible at both. He has good size that works in his favor defensively, but hes not fast, and hes not that athletic, and geting to the rim is a big problem for him- almost as much as his shooting is a problem for him.

Agree to a point. He does have offensive game. Later in the season, before he got hurt, he was hitting the 3 at closer to 34-35% which is where I think he needs to be to help with the offense.

While he isn't the fastest or most athletic, he's also not slow or unathletic. He's smart and was starting to find ways to get to the rim before he got hurt. If he can be like Stockton or Nash when it comes to getting to the rim...he'll be fine.

As I've said all along...it's up to him. If he puts in the work to improve his weaknesses, he'll be fine and could reach his likely ceiling of being like Jason Kidd.

If he doesn't, I expect he won't even reach Ricky Rubio/Rajon Rondo level and will be a career backup.

In Miami and Cleveland LeBron had all KINDs of spacing with elite bigs like Love and Bosh- and shooters that surrounded him that gave him oodles of room to operate with. In LA, what is going to prevent the defense from just totally keying on LeBron and packing the middle of the court?

There are more ways to keep defenses from keying on Lebron than just outside shooting. Ball movement and player movement will be key.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Agree to a point. He does have offensive game. Later in the season, before he got hurt, he was hitting the 3 at closer to 34-35% which is where I think he needs to be to help with the offense.

While he isn't the fastest or most athletic, he's also not slow or unathletic. He's smart and was starting to find ways to get to the rim before he got hurt. If he can be like Stockton or Nash when it comes to getting to the rim...he'll be fine.

As I've said all along...it's up to him. If he puts in the work to improve his weaknesses, he'll be fine and could reach his likely ceiling of being like Jason Kidd.

If he doesn't, I expect he won't even reach Ricky Rubio/Rajon Rondo level and will be a career backup.



There are more ways to keep defenses from keying on Lebron than just outside shooting. Ball movement and player movement will be key.

its not just about athleticism getting to the rim. Irving for example is not a great athlete- can barely slam the ball- but he excels at using those angles, and using his speed to get by people and finishing over defenders. Ball is slow- he has a slow first step- its an area where his size plays against him. He is not good at finishing at the rim either. Now he is only 20 and definitely can improve and has AMPLE room for improvement but its pretty clear as the #2 pick- he has been a disappointment thus far.

 

[trojanfan12]

its not just about athleticism getting to the rim. Irving for example is not a great athlete- can barely slam the ball- but he excels at using those angles, and using his speed to get by people and finishing over defenders. Ball is slow- he has a slow first step- its an area where his size plays against him. He is not good at finishing at the rim either. Now he is only 20 and definitely can improve and has AMPLE room for improvement but its pretty clear as the #2 pick- he has been a disappointment thus far.

I wouldn't call him a disappointment because he showed elite court vision and passing skills. His defense was also much better than expected.

As I said, to improve his ability to get to and finish at the rim, he's going to have to be smart. That's part of what makes Kyrie good at it. He's smart and knows the angles.

Ball's biggest issue as far a finishing was mainly about upper body strength. If he can get a little stronger and is smart about lanes and angles...his size can become a benefit for getting to the rim and finishing.

Also, as pointed out, and ignored by you, he was showing improvement in both areas when he got hurt.

 

[tlance]

You're misquoting me. I'm saying that the non-shooting stats are more valuable to even out his overall value, to which you agree in the first line above. Those other stats were very strong; any shooting improvement will spike his value. Also, Ball doesn't attempt a lot of shots, so those percentages are minimized to a degree. Improvement will always be desired though.

They aren't more valuable. They are just as valuable as any other player who posts them.

The problem that those other players are shooting far more efficiently. If Lonzo were just not a liability scoring, those stats would have high value. But he is. So those stats aren't worth nearly as much as Draymond Green's or another player who posts them with reasonable shooting numbers.

I get what you are saying, but your logic is off.

And trust me, if Lonzo is still shooting low to mid 30s from the field and below 60% from the line in 4 years, he won't get enough minutes to average 7 and 7.

 

[trojanfan12]

They aren't more valuable. They are just as valuable as any other player who posts them.

The problem that those other players are shooting far more efficiently. If Lonzo were just not a liability scoring, those stats would have high value. But he is. So those stats aren't worth nearly as much as Draymond Green's or another player who posts them with reasonable shooting numbers.

I get what you are saying, but your logic is off.

And trust me, if Lonzo is still shooting low to mid 30s from the field and below 60% from the line in 4 years, he won't get enough minutes to average 7 and 7.

Could be wrong, but I think you and shopson may be saying essentially the same thing.

His passing skills, court vision and defense do, to a certain extent, offset his poor shooting.

However, at the same time, his poor shooting, offsets his passing, court vision and defense.

End of the day, if he's going to live up to his draft status...dude's gonna have to shoot better.

 

[shopson67]

doesnt attempt a lot of shots he took almost 6 three's a game last year!?!?

...out of 11 shots total, the lowest of any of the Lakers regular starters other than being .1 ahead of Bropez and tied for 7th on the team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

...out of 11 shots total, the lowest of any of the Lakers regular starters other than being .1 ahead of Bropez and tied for 7th on the team.

lol.....cmon man. What you counting Isiah and his 15 games played? lol......or Clarkson who was fucking traded in February....lol...or KCP who had the EXACT same number at 10.8

cmon man. gmafb. sell crazy elsewhere- we areall stocked up here.

 

[shopson67]

lol.....cmon man. What you counting Isiah and his 15 games played? lol......or Clarkson who was fucking traded in February....lol...or KCP who had the EXACT same number at 10.8

cmon man. gmafb. sell crazy elsewhere- we areall stocked up here.

He takes the fewest shots of the Lakers starting 5, especially if you factor in that he averaged the most minutes per game of any Laker last year. He's in there to pass first and shoot only if it's the correct play.

As far as Clarkson goes, he was all about getting his own shot. Both he and Lopez averaged more than 10 minutes less per game less than Ball.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He takes the fewest shots of the Lakers starting 5, especially if you factor in that he averaged the most minutes per game of any Laker last year. He's in there to pass first and shoot only if it's the correct play.

yah id generally agree with that- though 11 shots a game is certainly a significant number of shots. Considering how much PGs shoot nowadays that is probably under the league average though.

 

[shopson67]

yah id generally agree with that- though 11 shots a game is certainly a significant number of shots. Considering how much PGs shoot nowadays that is probably under the league average though.

Well, he was 275th in per36 shot attempts. That number is inflated, as they don't filter out the guys who barely played, but still way down there IMO.

2017-18 NBA Player Stats: Per 36 Minutes | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[DorianRo]

How are the Raptors stupid? DeRozan has been absolutely USELESS in the playoffs his entire career.