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[SpringStein]

The Broncos were willing to use a 1st round pick and at least 8 other teams from what I am told that were all trying to trade up and get him all thought the risk was worth the reward for his talent and to show patience to see if he could develop. Unfortunately we all are very impatient. Myself included in that.

Sandy Clough, the most knowledgeable sports guru in Denver, would beg to differ. He adamantly stated that the only two teams who were interested in Paxton in round one were Denver and Dallas. And as we all know, it only takes one other team to make the other team pull the trigger too early.

The issue with patience is rookie contracts. Yes, first rounders are under control for 5 years, but if they aren't signed after year 4 the odds of signing them if they have a breakout year in year 5 likely aren't that good. I'm guessing if Paxton ever becomes a good NFL QB it won't be in Denver.

 

[nflbronco]

Sandy Clough, the most knowledgeable sports guru in Denver, would beg to differ. He adamantly stated that the only two teams who were interested in Paxton in round one were Denver and Dallas. And as we all know, it only takes one other team to make the other team pull the trigger too early.

The issue with patience is rookie contracts. Yes, first rounders are under control for 5 years, but if they aren't signed after year 4 the odds of signing them if they have a breakout year in year 5 likely aren't that good. I'm guessing if Paxton ever becomes a good NFL QB it won't be in Denver.

Agree SS solid post

 

[randymon]

I imagine the Sandy Clough report would be fairly easy to substantiate. Like to see if the " eight other teams " interested in Lynch in rd 1 is equally easy to substantiate. Curious. All I ever heard was JJ and Dallas.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Yep your right.

Like I said, on the Mane. If Lynch turns out to be a bust oh well. I told them we only traded a 3rd to try it. At least we didn't trade the farm like other teams have done that is bigger deal. QBOTF are hard to find. Heck we haven't found TD #2 yet either. You got to keep trying until you get things right.

PS I knew you weren't scolding Elway DC

I know you weren't. I wasn't talking about you.. Just a point I made to our convo. Good convo.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Yeah, I was going to say.... 8 other teams??? WHAAAT?

 

[randymon]

That's the thing Paul.

My point about Brady and Carl's about Rodgers a lot of people I don't think understand, but Paxton is a little bit different case here. I'm not really calling Elway out like others are that he doesn't know how to evaluate QB's... He still has to prove he can but I dont think anyone can every Full PROOVE it without some luck too.

Paxton's case is different to me because he hasn't shown progress. I'm not really scolding Elway for it, blaming him for his lack of development, but I also think we have somewhat of a clue what way Paxton might turn out here based on his inability to show anything the first two years. Again, I hope I am wrong, but if he doesn't I don't really blame Elway like many do. Nobody can draft a QB knowing they struck GOLD. Sometimes you have to point the finger at the person throwing the rock rather then the person giving them their shot.

I can evaluate Qbs perfectly. Unless your Aaron Rodgers or a Farve, their only as good as the guys up front. No pass pro, no run game, they will not succeed at high level. Drafting Lynch was a waste at a number 1 with serious O line issues ,was completely misguided. I blame that on front office. Elway, as he's already stated, would not have won SB without TD and O line. He was so desperate to find the Brady and NE solution, that he forgot formula that got him his titles, and made poor decision on Lynch. If anybody thinks that a Brady, Ben, Ryan etc could have done much better than 9 wins behind that line last year, I think you'd be wrong. Best scenario a one and done as wild card. Find a TS, build around him, then take a shot. Don't reach yet until you got the pieces to help him.

 

[LGM]

My problem with drafting a project like Lynch is that we did it without a Manning in place. I didn't have much of an issue with Os being drafted because he had time to sit and learn.

And while Lynch has had time to sit and learn, who has he sat behind? Nobody that can really teach him. Sure, he's got great coaches now, but if the rumor mill is true this was an Elway pick, not Kubes.

So here he is in year two, with his second system, and no qb to really learn from, with about as poor an oline and no running game as you'll find in the league, and we expect this kid to succeed.

Assuming he actually has the intangible tools to succeed.

We set this kid up for failure, whether he has the skill set to perform or not.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Not sure we set him up for faliure, but I do agree that having a proven vet to learn from would help him.

But many rookie QB's are drafted and handed a starting job from day 1 because no other good options exist, and not all of them have failed. Paxton had a full year to get better and he did not.

We can blame everyone we want for Paxton's inability to succeed and there are several people playing a role in his development, but at the end of the day he can either play or he can't....

 

[LGM]

I said as much too; I'm starting to question if he has the tools up top to play NFL qb.

 

[nflbronco]

I can evaluate Qbs perfectly. Unless your Aaron Rodgers or a Farve, their only as good as the guys up front. No pass pro, no run game, they will not succeed at high level. Drafting Lynch was a waste at a number 1 with serious O line issues ,was completely misguided. I blame that on front office. Elway, as he's already stated, would not have won SB without TD and O line. He was so desperate to find the Brady and NE solution, that he forgot formula that got him his titles, and made poor decision on Lynch. If anybody thinks that a Brady, Ben, Ryan etc could have done much better than 9 wins behind that line last year, I think you'd be wrong. Best scenario a one and done as wild card. Find a TS, build around him, then take a shot. Don't reach yet until you got the pieces to help him.

Good Point

It's not like he hasn't tried upgrading OL problem. 3 of his OL moves failed the last few years. QB OT are my top RD 1 choices in 18.

 

[nflbronco]

RB might not be needed quite yet

 

[cdumler7]

Sandy Clough, the most knowledgeable sports guru in Denver, would beg to differ. He adamantly stated that the only two teams who were interested in Paxton in round one were Denver and Dallas. And as we all know, it only takes one other team to make the other team pull the trigger too early.

The issue with patience is rookie contracts. Yes, first rounders are under control for 5 years, but if they aren't signed after year 4 the odds of signing them if they have a breakout year in year 5 likely aren't that good. I'm guessing if Paxton ever becomes a good NFL QB it won't be in Denver.

There are many reputable reporters that would highly disagree with Sandy Clough. I know for a fact that the Chiefs were trying to trade up to get him. Heck Lynch's own agent confirmed that after the draft that the Chiefs were one of the teams fighting for the spot to trade up. I also know of 5 other teams that had Paxton as a 1st round graded QB with some of them having him as their top QB in the entire draft. Some of those already had an established QB on the roster though but they did think he was a 1st round talent.

 

[cdumler7]

I can evaluate Qbs perfectly. Unless your Aaron Rodgers or a Farve, their only as good as the guys up front. No pass pro, no run game, they will not succeed at high level. Drafting Lynch was a waste at a number 1 with serious O line issues ,was completely misguided. I blame that on front office. Elway, as he's already stated, would not have won SB without TD and O line. He was so desperate to find the Brady and NE solution, that he forgot formula that got him his titles, and made poor decision on Lynch. If anybody thinks that a Brady, Ben, Ryan etc could have done much better than 9 wins behind that line last year, I think you'd be wrong. Best scenario a one and done as wild card. Find a TS, build around him, then take a shot. Don't reach yet until you got the pieces to help him.

I would say Elway has done a lot to try and help the OL. The issue continues to be guys not developing, injuries, and the vet signings just not living up to the hype.

Last year he signed Okung and Stephenson. Both were players sought after by other teams to come in and start for them. So not like Elway was the only one off on the evaluation. Both actually started out the year pretty well but both sustained injuries and never quite recovered.

He also was expecting that his 2nd round pick in Sambrailo would finally stay healthy. Of course that did not happen. Garcia showed some real promise his rookie year but then regressed his 2nd year in the league. So again 4 players with some expectations thrown their way and did not pan out.

The year before that remember we were at our 3rd string LT and RT with both of our guards needing plays off during the game because of injuries. You cannot always account for injuries. There are only so many decent players out there and any team that is playing with 3rd string guys on the OL are going to struggle. The Cowboys if they had their 3rd string LT in the game that player would not be a quality player.

So Elway has tried but so far that has not always been met with success.

 

[Draft Crazy]

I do remember the Chiefs and Cowboys interested in him, but can't imagine 8 teams total. Not saying that is wrong, but might be a frabricated report to make the pick look better then it was and justify it a bit more. Doesn't really matter though how many were looking to move up for him at this point. He just simply isn't turning out.

 

[Draft Crazy]

I would say Elway has done a lot to try and help the OL. The issue continues to be guys not developing, injuries, and the vet signings just not living up to the hype.

Last year he signed Okung and Stephenson. Both were players sought after by other teams to come in and start for them. So not like Elway was the only one off on the evaluation. Both actually started out the year pretty well but both sustained injuries and never quite recovered.

He also was expecting that his 2nd round pick in Sambrailo would finally stay healthy. Of course that did not happen. Garcia showed some real promise his rookie year but then regressed his 2nd year in the league. So again 4 players with some expectations thrown their way and did not pan out.

The year before that remember we were at our 3rd string LT and RT with both of our guards needing plays off during the game because of injuries. You cannot always account for injuries. There are only so many decent players out there and any team that is playing with 3rd string guys on the OL are going to struggle. The Cowboys if they had their 3rd string LT in the game that player would not be a quality player.

So Elway has tried but so far that has not always been met with success.

YES! It isn't like he hasn't tried.

 

[cdumler7]

YES! It isn't like he hasn't tried.

I would also add that where the Broncos picked in the 2016 draft there were not really any OT's left that were worth that pick. The next OT taken was by the Seahawks in Ifedi and they moved him inside for his first year. They also knew with Paxton that he was a project so probably wasn't going to start his rookie year. That gives them time to fix the OL before he becomes the full time starter. And hey that is what the Broncos tried to do this offseason with using a 1st round pick on Bolles and then signing guys like leary and Watson.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Yes- Can't reach on a position you don't have a high grade on just because it is a need at that point of the draft. If you don't feel you aren't upgrading it any, what is the point?

 

[CEH]

I do remember the Chiefs and Cowboys interested in him, but can't imagine 8 teams total. Not saying that is wrong, but might be a frabricated report to make the pick look better then it was and justify it a bit more. Doesn't really matter though how many were looking to move up for him at this point. He just simply isn't turning out.

That's how I remember it. Cowboys, Denver and Chiefs. Now Clough may dispute Chiefs interest which would be 30 of the 32 teams. I know NYJ said Lynch was a 3rd or 4th round prospect and we all laughed.

 

[cdumler7]

I do remember the Chiefs and Cowboys interested in him, but can't imagine 8 teams total. Not saying that is wrong, but might be a frabricated report to make the pick look better then it was and justify it a bit more. Doesn't really matter though how many were looking to move up for him at this point. He just simply isn't turning out.

Well the person who told this to me is very connected throughout the NFL. This isn't that 8 teams were trying to trade up for him. This is that this person knew of at least 8 teams that had Paxton as a 1st round talent with some of them having him as their top QB in the draft. Just like for this year the Broncos had Mahomes as their top QB on the board but the odds of them selecting Mahomes was very low. They still evaluate every one and give them a grade.

 

[cdumler7]

Yes- Can't reach on a position you don't have a high grade on just because it is a need at that point of the draft. If you don't feel you aren't upgrading it any, what is the point?

Well the Broncos on draft day had been calling clear up to around pick 10 in the draft from what I understand. I don't think you start making calls up that high unless you actually have a 1st round grade on the player. And I do know for a fact Broncos had a 1st round grade on Paxton. They did not view him as a reach at all. People have to remember that teams have a much different way of evaluating players than that of analyst/media people. Heck even us as fans we get a small picture of what a team has on a player. They get the chance to interview, look into the past of a player interviewing family, teammates, coaches and so on.