Game Thread: Game 7: Lions vs Dolphins

[Zwalt]

Exactly, they traded away their starting QB without having any backup plan on the roster. And they haven't even used half of the draft picks they got for him. And the 1st round pick that they did use hasnt played yet. Like it or not we're still at the begining of a long term rebuild.

No backup plan? What was getting back Goff? That was not only the backup plan but the long term plan. Problem is, he isn't very good. Not sure how they haven't used the draft capital, they got a '21 third and '22 first that they used. You can argue Williams is injured but it doesn't change the fact that the draft pick was used.

There are no long term rebuilds in the NFL anymore. If you don't rebuild in 3 years, you have to find new people to start the process again. It's imperative to maximize young players on rookie deals now. That's part of the reason I hate drafting injured players in the first couple rounds, it's a losing plan. I wouldn't have traded up for Williams, not only because of the injury but also because I don't value WR in the first round. So part of this is on Holmes, but he didn't get to choose Campbell so I'd give him one more year.

 

[Edonidd]

No backup plan? What was getting back Goff? That was not only the backup plan but the long term plan. Problem is, he isn't very good. Not sure how they haven't used the draft capital, they got a '21 third and '22 first that they used. You can argue Williams is injured but it doesn't change the fact that the draft pick was used.

There are no long term rebuilds in the NFL anymore. If you don't rebuild in 3 years, you have to find new people to start the process again. It's imperative to maximize young players on rookie deals now. That's part of the reason I hate drafting injured players in the first couple rounds, it's a losing plan. I wouldn't have traded up for Williams, not only because of the injury but also because I don't value WR in the first round. So part of this is on Holmes, but he didn't get to choose Campbell so I'd give him one more year.

No backup plan on the roster. Meaning they weren't moving Stafford because they had somebody. Not like San Fran trying to get rid of Jimmy G, or KC getting rid of Alex Smith, or even GB getting rid of Favre. No backup plan meaning even though LA benched Goff for some nobody, we were handing him the starting job without even bringing in competition.

I said they haven't used half of the draft picks they got for him. The third was just sweetener, that deal was all about getting 2 first round picks. And we've only used one of those 2. But like I said, the one pick we have used is sitting injured on the bench, because that pick was never about this year, it's about next year and beyond.

And frankly your opinion doesn't seem to be in line with the current NFL. WR's were flying off the boards in the first round the last 2 years, and huge contracts were getting thrown around in FA. QB is obviously the highest paid position. Second is technically LB, but all of the highest paid guys including TJ Watt, who set the curve, are edge rushers. WR is right behind that and right ahead of DE. WR actually jumps to second highest transition tag ahead of any edge rusher.

 

[Mebert]

I disagree. The NFL doesn't require 5 years to rebuild, and part of the problem is that Campbell is costing this team games. I really wanted it to work with him, I hate having to change coaches again, but he simply isn't good at coaching. Cut bait and move on.

It has not been 5, it has been 1 and a half.

 

[RobBase]

Imagine being a Lions fan & a Sparty fan.

Thank God for Michigan Football.

 

[Old Lion]

That's part of the reason I hate drafting injured players in the first couple rounds, it's a losing plan. I wouldn't have traded up for Williams, not only because of the injury but also because I don't value WR in the first round. So part of this is on Holmes, but he didn't get to choose Campbell so I'd give him one more year.

What may be worse is if Williams does not get a little bigger he will only be a number 2 WR at the NFL level. ARSB is staying in the slot so Williams has to play outside.

 

[jayfan]

PFF GRADES


Top 5 Grades
1. Goff 85.0
2. Evan Brown 83.2
3. James Mitchell 81.2
4. Jonah Jackson 74.5
5. Hock 74.0

* First time this season all 5 are from the same side of the ball. Best defensive grade was Kerby Joseph, 71.2.
* Evan Brown earns top OL grade for 2nd straight week.


Worst 5 Grades
1. AJ Parker 29.4
2. Buggs 29.5
3. Julian Okwara 30.6
4. Oruwariye 37.4
5. Rodrigo 42.3

* First time this season all 5 are from the same side of the ball. Worst offensive grade was Craig Reynolds, 47.5.
* Oruwariye returned to the lineup, along with his placement in the worst 5.

 

[Edonidd]

What may be worse is if Williams does not get a little bigger he will only be a number 2 WR at the NFL level. ARSB is staying in the slot so Williams has to play outside.

Like Waddle and Tyreek on that team we just played? It didn't seem like they were hurting too much by the fact that they had 2 WR's at/around 5'10 180.

 

[Zwalt]

No backup plan on the roster. Meaning they weren't moving Stafford because they had somebody. Not like San Fran trying to get rid of Jimmy G, or KC getting rid of Alex Smith, or even GB getting rid of Favre. No backup plan meaning even though LA benched Goff for some nobody, we were handing him the starting job without even bringing in competition.

I said they haven't used half of the draft picks they got for him. The third was just sweetener, that deal was all about getting 2 first round picks. And we've only used one of those 2. But like I said, the one pick we have used is sitting injured on the bench, because that pick was never about this year, it's about next year and beyond.

And frankly your opinion doesn't seem to be in line with the current NFL. WR's were flying off the boards in the first round the last 2 years, and huge contracts were getting thrown around in FA. QB is obviously the highest paid position. Second is technically LB, but all of the highest paid guys including TJ Watt, who set the curve, are edge rushers. WR is right behind that and right ahead of DE. WR actually jumps to second highest transition tag ahead of any edge rusher.

I agree there was no backup QB on the roster, and it's been a bitch of mine with the Lions for years.

Not going to nitpick on draft picks, I hear ya.

I understand what is happening in the NFL, but if you look at where players are drafted and the top receivers in the league, it isn't as clear cut as you would think. Of the top 10 reception leaders, only 7 are WRs, the top three were drafted in the later in the draft (1 in the 3rd, 2 in the 5th). If you look at the top 11, there are a total of 5 first rounders, 6 non-first rounders. I picked 11 so people wouldn't say I cherry picked and cut out Waddle. Only 2 players taken in the top 10, and what I find really interesting is every first rounder that is on the list is on their rookie deal.

Top 10:

Tyreek Hill - 5​

Cooper Kupp - 3
Stefon Diggs - 5
Austin Ekeler - RB
Justin Jefferson 1 - 22 overall (r)
Michael Pittman RB
Ja'Marr Chase 1 - 5 overall (r)
Travis Kelce TE
Tyler Lockett - 3
Marquise Brown - 1 - 25 overall (r)

Next 4 (top 11 WR)​

Diontae Johnson - 3
CeeDee Lamb - 1 -17 overall (r)
Curtis Samuel - 2
Jaylen Waddle - 1 - 6 overall (r)

 

[Zwalt]

It has not been 5, it has been 1 and a half.

If you stick with Campbell, find out he still sucks next season and have to fire him, then you are looking at 5 years minimum.

 

[Mebert]

I agree there was no backup QB on the roster, and it's been a bitch of mine with the Lions for years.

Not going to nitpick on draft picks, I hear ya.

I understand what is happening in the NFL, but if you look at where players are drafted and the top receivers in the league, it isn't as clear cut as you would think. Of the top 10 reception leaders, only 7 are WRs, the top three were drafted in the later in the draft (1 in the 3rd, 2 in the 5th). If you look at the top 11, there are a total of 5 first rounders, 6 non-first rounders. I picked 11 so people wouldn't say I cherry picked and cut out Waddle. Only 2 players taken in the top 10, and what I find really interesting is every first rounder that is on the list is on their rookie deal.

Top 10:​

​

Tyreek Hill - 5​

Cooper Kupp - 3
Stefon Diggs - 5
Austin Ekeler - RB
Justin Jefferson 1 - 22 overall (r)
Michael Pittman RB
Ja'Marr Chase 1 - 5 overall (r)
Travis Kelce TE
Tyler Lockett - 3
Marquise Brown - 1 - 25 overall (r)

Next 4 (top 11 WR)​

Diontae Johnson - 3
CeeDee Lamb - 1 -17 overall (r)
Curtis Samuel - 2
Jaylen Waddle - 1 - 6 overall (r)

To be fair, Hill was not a 1st round pick because he choked his pregnant girlfriend, not because people did not see his talent

 

[Mebert]

If you stick with Campbell, find out he still sucks next season and have to fire him, then you are looking at 5 years minimum.

It is impossible to know anything about the coaching with this team. Bill Belichick could go back in time and impregnate Landry, and that baby be born with absorbing all the coaching knowledge of those two combined, and that football super baby could not scheme this team into a winner with this roster.

Two absolute facts, Campbell is garbage on the sidelines. The team supports him and remains motivated even after all the struggles. I would say it is easier to learn the sideline part then the motivational part. It may absolutely end up that Campbell is not the guy, I just don't think it is time to make that call.

 

[Zwalt]

It is impossible to know anything about the coaching with this team. Bill Belichick could go back in time and impregnate Landry, and that baby be born with absorbing all the coaching knowledge of those two combined, and that football super baby could not scheme this team into a winner with this roster.

Two absolute facts, Campbell is garbage on the sidelines. The team supports him and remains motivated even after all the struggles. I would say it is easier to learn the sideline part then the motivational part. It may absolutely end up that Campbell is not the guy, I just don't think it is time to make that call.

Part of that is on Holmes, there was no reason to do barely anything in free agency, especially with the secondary and LBs. But a good question to ask is, what does Campbell do well? He's terrible at clock management, has no coordinator experience, and he has been bad at overall game management. The team likes him, that's great, but that isn't going to last through the losing.

 

[Mebert]

Part of that is on Holmes, there was no reason to do barely anything in free agency, especially with the secondary and LBs. But a good question to ask is, what does Campbell do well? He's terrible at clock management, has no coordinator experience, and he has been bad at overall game management. The team likes him, that's great, but that isn't going to last through the losing.

He is absolutely a coach that needs to have top tier coordinators to succeed, the value behind his motivational skills is significant. I personally do not think that he is the guy, but I don't think it is time to call it.

 

[Zwalt]

He is absolutely a coach that needs to have top tier coordinators to succeed, the value behind his motivational skills is significant. I personally do not think that he is the guy, but I don't think it is time to call it.

I agree, and the fact that he doesn't in his second season is another knock. I get that you don't want to cut bait now, and realistically, I don't know what good it does to fire him in season, there is no viable option, unless you think Aaron Glen can be a better HC than a DC.

 

[Mebert]

I agree, and the fact that he doesn't in his second season is another knock. I get that you don't want to cut bait now, and realistically, I don't know what good it does to fire him in season, there is no viable option, unless you think Aaron Glen can be a better HC than a DC.

Based on the 0 improvement of the defense? nope on Glen

 

[Old Lion]

Like Waddle and Tyreek on that team we just played? It didn't seem like they were hurting too much by the fact that they had 2 WR's at/around 5'10 180.

Tyreek runs a sub 4.3 so he makes up for his size being the fastest player in the league. Even Waddle has run sub 4.35 at times. He also has only played a season and a half. Neither of these guys have had serious injuries. Waddles ankle injury was not that bad.

Williams is fast but nowhere near that fast. He is also damaged now too. He will need to prove he still has even 4.4 speed anymore. Not going to avoid anyone running slower than that.

 

[Old Lion]

PFF GRADES


Top 5 Grades
1. Goff 85.0
2. Evan Brown 83.2
3. James Mitchell 81.2
4. Jonah Jackson 74.5
5. Hock 74.0

* First time this season all 5 are from the same side of the ball. Best defensive grade was Kerby Joseph, 71.2.
* Evan Brown earns top OL grade for 2nd straight week.


Worst 5 Grades
1. AJ Parker 29.4
2. Buggs 29.5
3. Julian Okwara 30.6
4. Oruwariye 37.4
5. Rodrigo 42.3

* First time this season all 5 are from the same side of the ball. Worst offensive grade was Craig Reynolds, 47.5.
* Oruwariye returned to the lineup, along with his placement in the worst 5.

For once Anzelone did not suck. Same for Will Harris. They at least did their jobs. I rag on them a lot so I will give them credit this time. Okwara was not worth his salt from day 1. They need to put him as a DE and see if that works.

 

[Old Lion]

I agree, and the fact that he doesn't in his second season is another knock. I get that you don't want to cut bait now, and realistically, I don't know what good it does to fire him in season, there is no viable option, unless you think Aaron Glen can be a better HC than a DC.

Based on the 0 improvement of the defense? nope on Glen

I liked that he used his last time out after the first down so he had the right guys in for the kneeldowns. Dont use it to challenge the spot that ended the game.

 

[Mebert]

I liked that he used his last time out after the first down so he had the right guys in for the kneeldowns. Dont use it to challenge the spot that ended the game.

Before Campbell the easy worst coach at time management was Andy Reid and he did alright. He is also an elite X's and O's guy, which Campbell is not.

 

[broncosmitty]

I liked that he used his last time out after the first down so he had the right guys in for the kneeldowns. Dont use it to challenge the spot that ended the game.

It’s almost like Caldwell never told him you can save em for next week.