Yes!

[Kreton]

I am all for Schwartz being shown the door for anything short of 25-0 this season. But Kelly hasnt shown me anything that makes me want him in Detroit.

 

[jayfan]

I'm not sure what more he could possibly show you. I understand the "college coach" concerns, and the personality concerns, so if that's what you mean, then ok. But his production/results have been nothing short of phenominal everywhere he's been. He wins. And he wins at places that aren't used to winning.

 

[Microwahevo]

He wins. And he wins at places that aren't used to winning.

ND went through almost two decades of average to below average production. Sure, there were bright spots here and there, but it was not up to the standards normally set forth by ND. Kelly has made some changes here that I like, minus the kids that commit then de-commit. Hell, we made the NCG last year, with a freshman QB, and we weren't even supposed to make a BCS bowl. That's progress. Granted, this year doesn't look too promising as of now, but things can change.

My only hang up is I do not want to have to sit through another piss-poor Lions season just to grab a "hot commodity" that may or may not want to come to Detroit. It isn't worth it in my book.

 

[Quackerjacked]

I would much rather have a ten win season than have a hope of getting Kelly.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Whats weird for me is that I can't stand Schwartz, but I like our coordinators.

I know there's a lot of dislike towards him, but Linehan is an offensive wizzard. We've been in the top 5 offense in the league for two years in a row. Granted, our scoring offense in the red zone was dreadful, but our offense can score points and move the ball; Linehan certainly isn't the issue as to why we're not winning.

Cunningham is a bit different. He favors exotic, high-pressure blitzing defenses that run multiple fronts. We'd actually have a great set of players on defense to do just that. But he's stuck running Schwartz's wide-9, a defense that looks like a 4-3, but functions more like a 3-4 with OLBs (DEs) who don't cover, just rush. The players like Gun, and he's firey and passionate, but doesn't come off as a douche bag like Schwartz when he looses his cool on the field.

I'd be thrilled if we got off to a slow start, and Mayhew canned Schwartz and bumped Cunningham up to interim coach for the rest of the year. If he focused on the defense and left the offense up to Linehan, I think we'd be in much better shape without Schwartz. His attitude is poisoning our team, imo...

 

[VulturesRule]

I'd be thrilled if we got off to a slow start, and Mayhew canned Schwartz and bumped Cunningham up to interim coach for the rest of the year. If he focused on the defense and left the offense up to Linehan, I think we'd be in much better shape without Schwartz. His attitude is poisoning our team, imo...

One of the better takes on the coaching issue, tpaulus.

Schwartz acts like he has achieved the Peter Principle, where you rise to one level above your optimum skill set. Happens to a lot of people who are willing to try and grab the brass ring. Perhaps Mayhew will take that into consideration, and if there isn't the hoped for marked improvement within the first four games this year then make the coaching change indicated.

The potential is here for a really competitive Lions team. It will take great managment at all levels to pull it off. That starts with Mayhew being committed to excellence, making the tough decision to stick with the coaching staff long enough to prove they are succesful, or replace the piece of the staff that is holding them back.

 

[Quackerjacked]

I think that Cunningham is limited by the players as much as the scheme. Remember the first year Suh was in you saw a lot of crazy fronts. Then it became apparent that we had terrible coverage players. To run an offensive defensive unit you absolutely must have good coverage because a broken coverage will hurt you so much worse.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

Schwartz has had 4 years and has not shown he can do it. One good year where they needed big plays by great players to win games late. In that year, he even admitted that he doesnt make adjustments at half time, but just lets great players make great plays. Defenses took the big play away and he had no answer and ended up with 4 freaking wins.

Schwartz inherited a foundation of Calvin Johnson to build a team on. Started out with a pathetic defense with some of Marinelli bench warmers from Tampa Bay. Lost some key players to injuries and some bad calls from the referees aren't excuses, just part of the game. Yet most of you expect Schwartz to put a team together that can beat the Referees and their opponents while trying to keep the players injury free? Top all of that off with the bullshit from the Media, Sports Writers and a fickled Fan Base.

Both, Schwartz and Linehan suck as coaches. They have not proven they can be consistent or improve. They have not shown me ANYTHING as coaches go. Schwartz would be good in a front office as he is good at getting talent on a team. As a coach, he has not shown anything.

REALLY? Three years was a very slim time frame to make the playoffs starting from ROCK bottom. Not bad from a greenhorn learning sometimes on the fly and becoming a candidate for coach of the year.

The schemes are flawed. To continue running a single back set and wonder why your team cant run the ball is moronic. Especially when so many runs come out of the Shotgun! NO team will have a good running game with that scheme. They are a one dimensional team to an extreme and will not be a contender until they fix that.

That is nonsense!! A singleback set is for a passing offense and in case you haven't noticed its become a passing league. If your trying to say our offensive line was elite run blockers I might think your onto something. The Lions never threw too many surprises out there last season by mixing it up on first down. Why is that? I don't know, maybe the coaching staff heard the fan base bitching about the offensive line being poor run blockers and they put them to the test. I know they heard about the fan base bitching about secondary before the 2011 draft... Both Mayhew and Schwartz laugh about drafting CB's and shutting up the whiners!!

I fail to see what so many fans even like in Schwartz. What about him do they like? His lack of getting a team prepared? His inability to make adjustments? His insistence on sticking with flawed schemes? His wondrous ability to lead by example as he loses his temper and chases another coach or throws a flag and gives up a winning TD?

The San Fran game... the Referees gave the 49ers better field position, maybe a better chance to win the game. The Texans game... it happened in the third quarter. By the way... the rule was changed should an HC throw the red flag by mistake during any scoring play that is reviewable.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I get the feeling you think Schwartz and co. listen to the fanbase and give a crap what we think.

They don't, so don't continue to try to fool yourself. All this crap is for us. The media is for us.

The professionals playing and coaching really don't pay attention to this stuff. Sure, they do some events and so fourth to throw us a bone here and there, but when it comes down to personel decisions, schemes, playcalling, etc... we're a total non-factor in the decision making process.

As for Schwartz, his four year record as our head coach speaks for itself. 22 wins vs. 42 losses is just aweful. He got almost half of his wins in one season. I don't know about you but I demand a coach that does a lot better than a ten win season every fourth year, with the other three years landing us in the top ten of the draft.

I see you making a lot of excuses for a coach that you're trying to sell us as "good" and I wonder why? What do you see in him, or what has he shown thus far that makes you think he's the right guy for the job? He has a piss-poor attitude and a horrid track record so far.

This year is do-or-die for him; if we don't make the playoffs, Jimbo is no long the head football coach for the Detroit football Lions.

 

[Old Lion]

Pass

 

[RobBase]

I hate this idea with a passion. Please, God, NO.

 

[broncosmitty]

It's odd to me Tpaul that you somehow find a way to love every shittyass scrub that puts on a Lions jersey(or could, or might, or should) but you hold Schwartz' win/loss record against him. He took over a team that won ZERO games the season before he got here. And had a roster of Hanson, Backus, CJ and bullshit. Thats it. That kinda makes it tough to get a decent % going in four years, dontcha think?

 

[LionsWhyMe]

I get the feeling you think Schwartz and co. listen to the fanbase and give a crap what we think.

They don't, so don't continue to try to fool yourself. All this crap is for us. The media is for us.

Listen? Maybe not, but I do know the fan base is heard!! The Media is all about a story, the inside reporters are the middle men. And no, I'm not fooling myself.

As for Schwartz, his four year record as our head coach speaks for itself. 22 wins vs. 42 losses is just aweful. He got almost half of his wins in one season. I don't know about you but I demand a coach that does a lot better than a ten win season every fourth year, with the other three years landing us in the top ten of the draft.

I see you making a lot of excuses for a coach that you're trying to sell us as "good" and I wonder why? What do you see in him, or what has he shown thus far that makes you think he's the right guy for the job? He has a piss-poor attitude and a horrid track record so far.

There's a foundation now, something Schwartz didn't start out with. I believe we had this discussion on CBS and 5 years was enough time because of the rebuilding to prove if he's the man for the job. The win/loss record is from taking over a team at ROCK bottom. We've all known Schwartz was building the Lions through the draft; building a team that would last. Most of us knew the offensive line needed to be upgraded, but it was the best thing on the team from the '08 season.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

This year is do-or-die for him; if we don't make the playoffs, Jimbo is no long the head football coach for the Detroit football Lions.

That might make a good thread. The what IF's... the Lions go 7-9 or 8-8 even with Calvin or Stafford getting injured during the season.

 

[tpaulus_2]

It's odd to me Tpaul that you somehow find a way to love every shittyass scrub that puts on a Lions jersey(or could, or might, or should) but you hold Schwartz' win/loss record against him. He took over a team that won ZERO games the season before he got here. And had a roster of Hanson, Backus, CJ and bullshit. Thats it. That kinda makes it tough to get a decent % going in four years, dontcha think?

It's not that I love every "scrub" we sign (and apparently all of our non-Pro Bowl players are scrubs, I've come to find out), but I am willing to do some research on who they are, what attributes they bring, what they're good at, etc... I'm sorry if it bothers you that I don't just look at us signing a guy and say "just a scrub, he sucks" especially the guys who are likely to make the squad. Imo, there's not a guy on the 53 man roster who is a scrub. If you're good enough to be one of 53 players on a roster that's made up of the best tackle football players in the world, then you're anything but a scrub.

Role players have value, even if they're not star players.

As for Schwartz, how can you expect me not to hold his win/loss record against him!? He's our head coach, last I knew he was paid to win football games, period. Win-loss is pretty much the key metric in evaluating a head coach. I know we've grown too accustomed to losing, but I just can't see the logic in backing a proven loser like Schwartz.

He's taken us to the playoffs once in 4 seasons. I can understand your logic that he had nothing to work with when he got here- he even showed improvement for 3 straight years. Then came last year's meltdown. Rather than continuing to improve, he took our team 3 years backwards as far as the win-loss record went.

The turning point for me was the Houston game on national TV on Thanksgiving. His temper-tantrum (which wasn't the first one, won't be the last) literally cost us the game. How on Earth a man who's at the pinnacle of his profession can do that and not be replaced the next day is beyond me. Imo, there's no excuse out there for a coach to fail his team on such a grand scale. Schwartz literally lost us a game on national television! I'm sorry, but I just can't accept that and continue to support him. If he was otherwise a winner, and this was an isolated incident which he apologized for, then I'd look at it differently. But it's not, and he really didn't apologize to the fans for it, which rubs me the wrong way. The crap w/ Jim Harbaugh is another prime example of his temper embarrassing Lions fans on national TV. It's a pattern I'm getting tired of. It's bad enough that we're know for our losing and ineptitude, do we really have to have a coach who's so childish that he's routinely the punchline for articles and Sports-Center clips at his expense?

He's just an arrogant dick who's ego is so big that it prevents him from realizing his shortcomings as a coach, and then correcting them. Imo, to be a good coach one has to be able to do some self-reflection and fix what he's doing wrong. For me, at least, Schwartz comes across as a guy who thinks he's the very best football mind in the world, and the only reason he doesn't win every game is because the rest of the world just isn't up to his football IQ. The way he treats the collective fan base in his pressers is simply abhorrent, imo. He's indicated multiple times that we don't know what we're talking about and should mind our own business. Being as how the fans pay his salary, you'd think he'd try to be a little less of a dickhole towards us.

I really think, like I already said, that my breaking point for Schwartz was that Houston game. When you're paid to lead men and win games, and then you single-handedly lose a crucial game because of your childish temper, there's no coming back from that, imo. I think all of the in-game discipline problems we have (cheap penalties, personal fouls, etc...) are a direct result of Schwartz's leadership style. The players watch him melt-down and act like a petulant child on a regular basis, so they act the same way when they're on the field.

This is all just my opinion, feel free to form and hold your own, but for me Schwartz has shown far too little in the way of leadership and coaching ability for me to support him any longer, to say nothing of his 3 year old temper tantrums...

 

[RobBase]

That might make a good thread. The what IF's... the Lions go 7-9 or 8-8 even with Calvin or Stafford getting injured during the season.

No matter what happens, do not hire Brian "Red Face" Kelly.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Listen? Maybe not, but I do know the fan base is heard!! The Media is all about a story, the inside reporters are the middle men. And no, I'm not fooling myself.

The media is all about a story, but how are you tying that into the team listening to the fans?

Like I said, the media is for our benefit, not the team's. They write stuff because we pay to read it. They're certainly not the middle man between the fans and the team. The Lion's brass, just like the other 31 teams in the NFL could give two shits what the media thinks and writes...

 

[tpaulus_2]

We've all known Schwartz was building the Lions through the draft; building a team that would last.

You must know something the rest of us don't, then, I guess.

Schwartz isn't the one doing the drafting, so saying that he's been building a team through the draft is false. That's what Mayhew, Schwartz's boss, is paid to do...

 

[LionsWhyMe]

They're certainly not the middle man between the fans and the team. The Lion's brass, just like the other 31 teams in the NFL could give two shits what the media thinks and writes...

The Inside Reporters interact with the fans and Lions. What the fan base ask or bitch about to the Insiders does or can make it to whomever(coach, player team).

You must know something the rest of us don't, then, I guess.

Schwartz isn't the one doing the drafting, so saying that he's been building a team through the draft is false. That's what Mayhew, Schwartz's boss, is paid to do...

Mayhew has the final say, yes. But they do work together to give Schwartz the personal he wants to coach. Not sure why your being so naive that every GM is like Matt Millen. Not every GM will draft a Ryan Leaf and tell the HC he's starting without beating out a Peyton Manning. I know Schwartz doesn't give Mayhew a shopping list of positions and say good luck.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The Inside Reporters interact with the fans and Lions. What the fan base ask or bitch about to the Insiders does or can make it to whomever(coach, player team).



Mayhew has the final say, yes. But they do work together to give Schwartz the personal he wants to coach. Not sure why your being so naive that every GM is like Matt Millen. Not every GM will draft a Ryan Leaf and tell the HC he's starting without beating out a Peyton Manning. I know Schwartz doesn't give Mayhew a shopping list of positions and say good luck.

I'm not saying that info doesn't get back to the brass, I'm saying they simply don't care.

As for the draft, yes, Schwartz has input into the selections, but the ultimate decision is indeed Mayhew's. That's what he's paid to do- collect talented players and build the roster. To say that Schwartz has been building a team through the draft just isn't right- it's giving him credit that he isn't due...