WTF Pace

[cubzzzfanincali]

What were those expectations? After YEARS and years of Rex Grossmans, the abysmal Kyle Orton, Cade McNown, And all the others- NO QB had started a full 16 game season for *10+ years (I think maybe Jim Miller had ONE season) ... Could it just be that those expectations were a bit out of reach for anyone?
Could it be that Bears fans are programed to hate the QB? OR better yet- "love" the backup? Yep. The first year wasn't great w/his picks. Then a couple of injury shortened seasons. I'll never understand the boo's and hatred of a guy who simply plays- It'd be one thing if he was a bad guy or beat up his wife or got in trouble with the law. But to write and bitch EVERY time his name in mentioned is sad/sick.
There will never be a "franchise" QB in Chicago. Never. The fan base won't let it happen.

I don't know Joey. This seems like bullshit to me. I was high on him for several years, I defended him vigorously everywhere I went. You know what turned me? It wasn't some bullshit mythical innate Chicagoan disposition against quarterbacks. It was INTERCEPTIONS. Get it, dude?

You may think we are wrong, but it's irritating having you constantly chalk up the increasing criticism of him by his own fan base as something unreasonable. It's not Joey. It's because of his actual football play. The fanbase is not what caused him to be mistake prone, the fanbase is not what has cycled him through numerous coaching staffs. It is Cutler's BRAIN, Joey, not the fanbase.

His expectations were high, because he is very talented. He has a tremendously strong arm. The fact that the Bears history is littered with shitty QB play doesn't change that, and the fanbase is as ready as any in the league for a great QB. Unfortunately, that QB is not Jay Cutler. Either. Yet again.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Cali, you still don't get what pisses me off... It's not about Jay. It's about what has happened to every QB in Chicago. You can go on and on about his play- but what you fail to see is that Chicago Fans are never going to let a player grow. Ever. The first sign of weakness or failure will be jumped on and overblown. The haters- who continue to harp on the wrong things- "Jay's interceptions" and perceived poor decisions...and not see what's going on around him. Shitty coaching/bad WR's/bad OL/Bad defense...all at different times throughout his Bears career. Not to mention freak injuries. Now the haters will call these "excuses"...whatever. What's the point of being a fan if when the noise get's loud enough you jump ship too? You want to call it... "smarting up?" or "seeing the light" or anything else similar? That's your issue. Not mine.
All I know is, when Jay plays well and John Fox and company bring them to where we all want to be...I'll be on the right side of history. If not... I'll move on. But I'm not going to be that guy that has to find "EXCUSES" for why he's playing well or nitpick the tiniest faults just to justify my months of hate, cause I always have to be "right" and the "smartest" on the board.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

something unreasonable

The unreasonable part: The WORST DEFENSE in BEARS HISTORY...PERIOD. Who get's the most hate? The QB. The arguably the best statistical season in Bears history... People point to "garbage time"
The sickening awfulness of comments on an article when his signed football didn't sell. The comments when it's announced that he's having a 3rd baby?
Nobody can mention his name without some dipshit posting something stupid. That's unreasonable.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cali, you still don't get what pisses me off... It's not about Jay. It's about what has happened to every QB in Chicago. You can go on and on about his play- but what you fail to see is that Chicago Fans are never going to let a player grow. Ever. The first sign of weakness or failure will be jumped on and overblown. .

What on Earth are you talking about? First sign of weakness? He's been here six years. I only finally threw in the towel midway through last season, after I got sick of waiting for the turn that's never shown up. Chicago fans don't let players grow? I'm a Cubs fan you moron....that's all we've done is wait patiently for the new young Cubs to come up, and it's been exciting. I'm in no hurry...I'm the one on this board saying it's fine for 2015 to be a rebuilding year with zero Super Bowl chance for the next couple of years if it allows the team to develop new talent for a real shot in the future. Where do you come off with this shit? There's nothing unusual about the Chicago fanbase dude. The fanbase is simply sick of waiting for something that's quite obviously not coming.

 

[anotheridiot]

The unreasonable part: The WORST DEFENSE in BEARS HISTORY...PERIOD. Who get's the most hate? The QB. The arguably the best statistical season in Bears history... People point to "garbage time"
The sickening awfulness of comments on an article when his signed football didn't sell. The comments when it's announced that he's having a 3rd baby?
Nobody can mention his name without some dipshit posting something stupid. That's unreasonable.

The point you are missing, is this team led by Cutler is supposed to be able to keep up with the bad defense.

What was the average time of possession the defense was on the field for turnovers and three and outs? Does that play a part in bad defense? The other team scored, three and out, defense right back on the field, give up another score, get back on the field after a turnover, another score. Before you know it, the defense gives up 21 points in a quarter. You know what, six minute drives help that too.

Room to grow? He was grown when he got here. He was entering his prime when they traded all those first round picks for him.

There are reasons for bad defense that are not just based on the defense. I am convinced that no Tucker change was made in the off season in the attempt to give Trestman another year with Cutler whispering and leave a fall guy in place. But instead of the city's knowledgeable fans harping on the defense, they saw the true problem, the front office chose a pouty face to be the face of the organization.

Pouty face. pouty fans.

 

[leomaz]

The worst defense in the league and you are not going to the playoffs..PERIOD

 

[leomaz]

The point you are missing, is this team led by Cutler is supposed to be able to keep up with the bad defense.

What was the average time of possession the defense was on the field for turnovers and three and outs? Does that play a part in bad defense? The other team scored, three and out, defense right back on the field, give up another score, get back on the field after a turnover, another score. Before you know it, the defense gives up 21 points in a quarter. You know what, six minute drives help that too.

Room to grow? He was grown when he got here. He was entering his prime when they traded all those first round picks for him.

There are reasons for bad defense that are not just based on the defense. I am convinced that no Tucker change was made in the off season in the attempt to give Trestman another year with Cutler whispering and leave a fall guy in place. But instead of the city's knowledgeable fans harping on the defense, they saw the true problem, the front office chose a pouty face to be the face of the organization.

Pouty face. pouty fans.

Ummmm...no

 

[anotheridiot]

Ummmm...no

Which offense in the league started with better weapons than the bears had?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Which offense in the league started with better weapons than the bears had?

Denver. Maybe New Orleans. Debatably Dallas.

 

[leomaz]

Which offense in the league started with better weapons than the bears had?

Green Bay. Detroit

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

The worst defense in the league and you are not going to the playoffs..PERIOD

The Bear defense was bad, but not the worst.

Green Bay. Detroit

No thanks. Outside of QB, I would take the Bears talent on offense over GB in a heartbeat. Eddie Lacy might change my mind about that this year, but I'm not totally sold on him. That offense is superior to ours only because of one (but hugely important) reason.

Detroit is a bit more interesting of a comparison. Obviously Calvin Johnson is great, but I think I'd take the Bears receiver group last year (and on paper this year) over theirs, their tight end situation has been disappointing to them, and Forte was clearly the better RB. I think I would probably also take our OL group, though that's somewhat of a tossup. I'd prefer Stafford over Cutler, but not by a lot, and mainly because he is younger. The one place Detroit was clearly better than us last year was their defensive front 7.

 

[richig07]

The worst defense in the league and you are not going to the playoffs..PERIOD

Actually, there have been multiple teams to accomplish this. Notably since 2000, Manning led Colts teams and Brees led Saints teams.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Don't forget that horrendous 2011 New England defense that somehow was good enough to get them into the Super Bowl. They gave up like 410 yards per game and still almost took it.

 

[leomaz]

Sorry.........


Lowest-Ranked Total D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 27th

2009 Saints - 25th

2001 Patriots - 24th

2006 Colts - 21st

1976 Raiders - 18th

1987 Redskins - 18th

Lowest-Ranked Scoring D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 25th

2006 Colts - 23rd

2009 Saints - 20th

2007 Giants - 17th

1983 Raiders - 13th

1976 Raiders - 12th


Tell me where the Bears defense ranked the last 2 years compared to the super bowl defenses

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The unreasonable part: The WORST DEFENSE in BEARS HISTORY...PERIOD. Who get's the most hate? The QB. The arguably the best statistical season in Bears history... People point to "garbage time"
The sickening awfulness of comments on an article when his signed football didn't sell. The comments when it's announced that he's having a 3rd baby?
Nobody can mention his name without some dipshit posting something stupid. That's unreasonable.

This debate reminds me of a girl I used to date. She was born and raised in Chicago. She wasn't a big fan of any sports though. She once asked me why i waste my time with the Bears because they will never be good enough to win it. That was the year before they went to the super bowl and it took me this long to realize that she was right.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Sorry.........


Lowest-Ranked Total D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 27th

2009 Saints - 25th

2001 Patriots - 24th

2006 Colts - 21st

1976 Raiders - 18th

1987 Redskins - 18th

Lowest-Ranked Scoring D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 25th

2006 Colts - 23rd

2009 Saints - 20th

2007 Giants - 17th

1983 Raiders - 13th

1976 Raiders - 12th


Tell me where the Bears defense ranked the last 2 years compared to the super bowl defenses

Sorry.........


Lowest-Ranked Total D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 27th

2009 Saints - 25th

2001 Patriots - 24th

2006 Colts - 21st

1976 Raiders - 18th

1987 Redskins - 18th

Lowest-Ranked Scoring D to Win Super Bowl

2011 Giants - 25th

2006 Colts - 23rd

2009 Saints - 20th

2007 Giants - 17th

1983 Raiders - 13th

1976 Raiders - 12th


Tell me where the Bears defense ranked the last 2 years compared to the super bowl defenses

Leo. No one says having a shitty defense didn't hurt us. This has to be the dumbest red herring argument you have ever made, and you've made a few. But a defense that gave up 600 more yards than ours did last year and was ranked the same was in the Super Bowl and one freakishly good Mario Manningham catch away from not just being in the Super Bowl but winning it. Therefore, your point kind of sucks balls.

There's more than one way to get in the Super Bowl, but in an offense oriented league, defense is great, but not as crucial as having a QB that can execute. Which brings us back to...

 

[richig07]

Okay, I'm going to argue both sides a bit here for a moment.

Don't group me in with Joey or Leo on this topic. If you've read my posts here for the past 7-8 years you know I used to be a HUGE Cutler supporter, I used to fight to the death with "Cutler haters". BUT... I'm with Cubz, it's not some "Chicago sports fan defect". That's absurd. How you can still go to bat for this guy after seeing no more than 5-6 games last season is beyond me.

However, on the flip side… here's an example of my beef with the people who feel the need to tear Cutler to shreds at every stop. As if he spent his career pissing in his jock strap.

I would bet most anything that if I were to ask Wood, AI, etc... their opinion on Matt Stafford, that they wouldn't lay into him nearly as much as they do Cutler. They might even say he's decent, I don't know. But… nevertheless… I present to you their career numbers.

Cutler

GAMES: 119 RECORD: 61-58-0 (1-1 Playoffs) CMP: 2390 ATT: 3871 CMP%: 61.7 YARDS: 27749 TD: 183 INT:130 INT%: 3.4 QB RATING: 85.2 SACKED: 256 SACK%: 6.2

Stafford

GAMES: 77 RECORD: 35-42-0 (0-2 Playoffs) CMP: 1848 ATT: 3099 CMP%: 59.6 YARDS: 21714 TD: 131 INT: 85 INT%: 2.7 QB Rating: 83.6 SACKED: 161 SACK%: 4.9


Now, without any knowledge of these two QB's or their numbers, if I just put "QB1" and "QB2" in front of these guy's stats. You would no doubt say these two have EXTREMELY similar body's of work. Jay is better in QB rating, CMP%, overall record, he has a playoff win. Stafford has a higher TD rate while also accumulating a 0.7% better INT rate. He's also better in yardage, even if it's mostly because of his high number of attempts.

Granted, Stafford is 27, but I believe we all have a good idea who he is by now.

I've read QB rankings lists all off-season on different forums that have Stafford both as a top 10 QB, and just outside of the top 10. Meanwhile, Cutler is regarded as a total laughing stock.

Now, I would take Stafford 100% over Cutler. Possibly only because of his age, but there is absolutely no denying he's coming off of a better season either. However, there is ALSO no denying that these two are extremely comparable QB's if you look at their body of work. There just seems to be no breathing room ever for Cutler, people are looking for any excuse to throw him to the dogs.

He definitely deserves to be criticized, but it's like everything is always multiplied ten-fold with Jay. People look for any reason to try and blame him when he doesn't deserve it. Then… when he does deserve blame, people take it and run with it to SUCH AMAZING extremes.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Joey has no ideal how much we all fought for Cutler for years. I still think he is a good guy and teammate. And I'm ok with him being our QB right now. Except being way way over paid. But last year proved beyond a doubt that Cutler is not improving with much better talent around him. Did we ruin him? Ya I think we did.

 

[leomaz]

Leo. No one says having a shitty defense didn't hurt us. This has to be the dumbest red herring argument you have ever made, and you've made a few. But a defense that gave up 600 more yards than ours did last year and was ranked the same was in the Super Bowl and one freakishly good Mario Manningham catch away from not just being in the Super Bowl but winning it. Therefore, your point kind of sucks balls.

There's more than one way to get in the Super Bowl, but in an offense oriented league, defense is great, but not as crucial as having a QB that can execute. Which brings us back to...

Well it's not an argument, its a fact. If you have the worse defense in the league you are not winning a super bowl. You can call me names if you want but at least what I provided was fact and not opinion.

 

[leomaz]

Okay, I'm going to argue both sides a bit here for a moment.

Don't group me in with Joey or Leo on this topic. If you've read my posts here for the past 7-8 years you know I used to be a HUGE Cutler supporter, I used to fight to the death with "Cutler haters". BUT... I'm with Cubz, it's not some "Chicago sports fan defect". That's absurd. How you can still go to bat for this guy after seeing no more than 5-6 games last season is beyond me.

However, on the flip side… here's an example of my beef with the people who feel the need to tear Cutler to shreds at every stop. As if he spent his career pissing in his jock strap.

I would bet most anything that if I were to ask Wood, AI, etc... their opinion on Matt Stafford, that they wouldn't lay into him nearly as much as they do Cutler. They might even say he's decent, I don't know. But… nevertheless… I present to you their career numbers.

Cutler

GAMES: 119 RECORD: 61-58-0 (1-1 Playoffs) CMP: 2390 ATT: 3871 CMP%: 61.7 YARDS: 27749 TD: 183 INT:130 INT%: 3.4 QB RATING: 85.2 SACKED: 256 SACK%: 6.2

Stafford

GAMES: 77 RECORD: 35-42-0 (0-2 Playoffs) CMP: 1848 ATT: 3099 CMP%: 59.6 YARDS: 21714 TD: 131 INT: 85 INT%: 2.7 QB Rating: 83.6 SACKED: 161 SACK%: 4.9


Now, without any knowledge of these two QB's or their numbers, if I just put "QB1" and "QB2" in front of these guy's stats. You would no doubt say these two have EXTREMELY similar body's of work. Jay is better in QB rating, CMP%, overall record, he has a playoff win. Stafford has a higher TD rate while also accumulating a 0.7% better INT rate. He's also better in yardage, even if it's mostly because of his high number of attempts.

Granted, Stafford is 27, but I believe we all have a good idea who he is by now.

I've read QB rankings lists all off-season on different forums that have Stafford both as a top 10 QB, and just outside of the top 10. Meanwhile, Cutler is regarded as a total laughing stock.

Now, I would take Stafford 100% over Cutler. Possibly only because of his age, but there is absolutely no denying he's coming off of a better season either. However, there is ALSO no denying that these two are extremely comparable QB's if you look at their body of work. There just seems to be no breathing room ever for Cutler, people are looking for any excuse to throw him to the dogs.

He definitely deserves to be criticized, but it's like everything is always multiplied ten-fold with Jay. People look for any reason to try and blame him when he doesn't deserve it. Then… when he does deserve blame, people take it and run with it to SUCH AMAZING extremes.

You have a beef with me?