Would you do a pay per view for Ronda Rousey against Ray Rice?

[flyerhawk]

Not just size and strength but also gender. No disrespect to women but them the facts

Very true. Men and women have different bone structure and density.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Is it safe to say at this point Leroy Brown is just trolling?

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Not just size and strength but also gender. No disrespect to women but them the facts

Let's face it, there's a reason domestic violence is so one sided in real life.

There's also a reason why pretty much all professional fighting organizations break down into weight classes.

 

[SteveDallas]

Chinese wisdom.

 

[UK Cowboy]

[/B]

Cmon UK dont get me killed

Sorry Bro, lol. There are a lot of folks out there who believe the same things Leroy is saying. What happens at most gyms where there are women fighters, is the guys will roll with them and LET the women pull their moves, because it is give and take. No different than Heavyweight men rolling with lightweight s or welterweights, they could simply hold them down, but that's not how you get better. Same with sparring, the men wear 16's while women wear 12 ounce gloves, and the guys punch no more than 40-50%. Now, a lot of the girls or their families will run to Facebook and talk about how they "tapped out" guys ar the gym, but give and take isn't real. There are plenty of videos of Ronda herself rolling with men, going as hard as she can, while the guy is just playing, spending more energy making sure he doesn't accidentally hurt her. Could Ronda defend herself against a 150 LB untrained man? Yeah, she could defend herself. Could she defend herself against a 210 LB world class male athlete? Not a chance in Hell

 

[Leroy Brown]

So you agree that there comes a time in which size and strength make training irrelevant.

That's good. Now you seem to think that doesn't apply in this situation and that's fine. I disagree but I can understand your point.

Not just size and strength but also gender. No disrespect to women but them the facts

Let's face it, there's a reason domestic violence is so one sided in real life.

There's also a reason why pretty much all professional fighting organizations break down into weight classes.

We're talking about the top tenth of the top 1% of women fighting on the planet when we're talking about Rousey.

Weight classes come into play more when talking about trained fighters vs. trained fighters. I'm in relatively decent shape and weight just under 200lbs. I wouldn't be stupid enough to think I could defeat Floyd Mayweather back when he fought as a Super Featherweight (130lbs). He would be giving up 70 pounds but I'm not a professional fighter. He'd knock my ass out.

Rousey IS a professional fighter. Ray Rice isn't. In fact, Rousey is considered at worst, one of the top two or three women in the world at fighting. What's Ray Rice's ranking for knocking out his finance?

Is it safe to say at this point Leroy Brown is just trolling?

Nope. Most people cannot fathom the Grand Canyon sized chasm between someone trained in effective fighting arts and someone who hasn't trained any fighting arts or someone who has trained bullshit martial arts. There's nothing bullshit about wrestling, BJJ, Judo, and Sambo. These are arts where the film don't lie...there's no kata in these arts. There's no "Asian Mysticism" attached to these arts. They are performance based...and can be trained frequently against fully resisting opponents.

Now, you can't go full force with American Boxing or Muay Thai all the time, but in their competitive exhibitions and tournaments, the film don't lie. People are hitting each other full force.

So anyone who knows anything about fighting understands you can't lump these in with karate (with the exception of some Kyokusin schools), kung fu, kenpo, krav maga, any of that mess that requires kata or rehearsed fighting scenarios and don't really allow full contact, even in their tournaments.

Male or female, someone who has trained more than one of the effective arts for years under some of the absolute best teaching in the world is a very dangerous human being. That someone is an even more dangerous human being when training these arts is their full time job. Just because someone is a professional athlete doesn't make them a fighter.

I'm just trying to being reality to the discourse. UK Cowboy is saying I've seen one too many movies. I'm saying "Nope, this is what I see where people are actually training effective martial arts. How about you go see for yourself and get out there against even a blue belt BJJ practitioner or mid level Judo female and see what happens?"

If that's trolling, sorry boss.

 

[Leroy Brown]

Sorry Bro, lol. There are a lot of folks out there who believe the same things Leroy is saying. What happens at most gyms where there are women fighters, is the guys will roll with them and LET the women pull their moves, because it is give and take. No different than Heavyweight men rolling with lightweight s or welterweights, they could simply hold them down, but that's not how you get better. Same with sparring, the men wear 16's while women wear 12 ounce gloves, and the guys punch no more than 40-50%. Now, a lot of the girls or their families will run to Facebook and talk about how they "tapped out" guys ar the gym, but give and take isn't real. There are plenty of videos of Ronda herself rolling with men, going as hard as she can, while the guy is just playing, spending more energy making sure he doesn't accidentally hurt her. Could Ronda defend herself against a 150 LB untrained man? Yeah, she could defend herself. Could she defend herself against a 210 LB world class male athlete? Not a chance in Hell

What gyms? What arts? What do you train, "Bro?"

Seriously, man, WHAT DO YOU TRAIN?!?!?

You claim to speak from experience, but won't say what you train...can you see the conflict here?

You think BJJ and TKD is the same in terms of effectiveness, but won't say what this magical art is you trained for 20 years, and also, if your son is an MMA fighter, what does he train?

 

[Gooch1034]

Ray Rice would have strength. That's it! Rhonda could just wait for a mistake and there you have it. Have people already forgot Royce Gracie in early UFC? He was fighting against huge opponents who were actually trained in something.

My money would be on Ronda easy!

 

[Leroy Brown]

Ray Rice would have strength. That's it! Rhonda could just wait for a mistake and there you have it. Have people already forgot Royce Gracie in early UFC? He was fighting against huge opponents who were actually trained in something.

My money would be on Ronda easy!

BUT WAIT, HE'S A HEAVIER MAN, DAMMIT!!! WHO PLAYZ DA FOOZEBALL!!!!



Seriously man...you're right. Unless Rice connects flush with a lucky first shot, all Rousey does is wait for an opening. Seeing how just about any position is an opening when it comes to a professional fighter against an untrained person, she would be hell on wheels for Rice.

 

[Gooch1034]

I don't think it is impossible for Ray to win. I just think his advantages aren't enough. Ray wouldn't be easy to take down either but that's where the Judo would be huge for Ronda. Likely the only way she could get him down but the key would be she would HAVE to get him down to win. On the ground, most men wouldn't likely do too well no matter the gender.

 

[UK Cowboy]

BUT WAIT, HE'S A HEAVIER MAN, DAMMIT!!! WHO PLAYZ DA FOOZEBALL!!!!



Seriously man...you're right. Unless Rice connects flush with a lucky first shot, all Rousey does is wait for an opening. Seeing how just about any position is an opening when it comes to a professional fighter against an untrained person, she would be hell on wheels for Rice.

Fruit.......Cake........

 

[sonnyblack65]

Ray Rice would have strength. That's it! Rhonda could just wait for a mistake and there you have it. Have people already forgot Royce Gracie in early UFC? He was fighting against huge opponents who were actually trained in something.

My money would be on Ronda easy!

Mistake? She kicks him he grabs her its all over. The gym I workout ( lift and cardio, not fighting) there is an MMA guy who was 6-0 campbell is his last name , the owner of the gym knew I used to wrestle back in late 70's, early 80's and asked me to roll on mat with him. Guy was prob 160 lbs and I'm 255. He tried pulling all these arm bar moves, leg locks etc and I got out easy and kept pinning his ass. Obviously if it was real fight, I would have punched him in face, once he was down.

Rice has 275 LBs tackling him all game long and he is gonna be worried about 125 broad get real


Leroy if your a female please dont take offense but your gender is no match esp for a pro football player, unless maybe a kicker/punter

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Mistake? She kicks him he grabs her its all over. The gym I workout ( lift and cardio, not fighting) there is an MMA guy who was 6-0 campbell is his last name , the owner of the gym knew I used to wrestle back in late 70's, early 80's and asked me to roll on mat with him. Guy was prob 160 lbs and I'm 255. He tried pulling all these arm bar moves, leg locks etc and I got out easy and kept pinning his ass. Obviously if it was real fight, I would have punched him in face, once he was down.

Rice has 275 LBs tackling him all game long and he is gonna be worried about 125 broad get real


Leroy if your a female please dont take offense but your gender is no match esp for a pro football player, unless maybe a kicker/punter

Hey some punters are pretty big dudes.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Hey some punters are pretty big dudes.

Hey I aint talking Janikowski , he could go against the undertaker or cain. Meant like the Gramatica brothers

 

[sonnyblack65]

I don't think it is impossible for Ray to win. I just think his advantages aren't enough. Ray wouldn't be easy to take down either but that's where the Judo would be huge for Ronda. Likely the only way she could get him down but the key would be she would HAVE to get him down to win. On the ground, most men wouldn't likely do too well no matter the gender.

Wow I heard it all now. Only shot she would have is to a roundhouse or any good kick to the head with a knockout, and thats unlikely.

 

[Gooch1034]

Mistake? She kicks him he grabs her its all over. The gym I workout ( lift and cardio, not fighting) there is an MMA guy who was 6-0 campbell is his last name , the owner of the gym knew I used to wrestle back in late 70's, early 80's and asked me to roll on mat with him. Guy was prob 160 lbs and I'm 255. He tried pulling all these arm bar moves, leg locks etc and I got out easy and kept pinning his ass. Obviously if it was real fight, I would have punched him in face, once he was down.

Rice has 275 LBs tackling him all game long and he is gonna be worried about 125 broad get real


Leroy if your a female please dont take offense but your gender is no match esp for a pro football player, unless maybe a kicker/punter

I see what you are saying and that very well could be the case? The "mistake" I was referring to was more of a missed punch that creates an opening to a choke or throw? Judo especially doesn't see size as much as other MA's but I basically just see Ronda as a smaller MMA trained guy fighting Ray Rice. If Ray were the winner, he would have to win by KO and I don't think it would be as easy as some think. Just my opinion. Brock Lesner lost to Mir with an ankle lock. Size is a big deal but it doesn't decide everything. I am starting to wish this fight would really happen just to see how things fall.

 

[sonnyblack65]

I see what you are saying and that very well could be the case? The "mistake" I was referring to was more of a missed punch that creates an opening to a choke or throw? Judo especially doesn't see size as much as other MA's but I basically just see Ronda as a smaller MMA trained guy fighting Ray Rice. If Ray were the winner, he would have to win by KO and I don't think it would be as easy as some think. Just my opinion. Brock Lesner lost to Mir with an ankle lock. Size is a big deal but it doesn't decide everything. I am starting to wish this fight would really happen just to see how things fall.

If you were talking about say 160-170 lb trained male fighter, I can understand your thinking. How is she gonna choke out Rice? I wrestled for 4 years in HS and won states 2 yrs and place 2nd in NE tourny. I wasnt the most finesse guy or had the knowledge and moves under my belt. Frankly I would out muscle guys and get out of their moves, leg locks were a lit tougher or so were double chicken wings. Half nelsons not so much, and of course full ones were illegal .

No mind you there was no MMA back then and judo wasnt talked about, so I dont follow. The big thing back then was who would win between a boxer, karate guy and wrestler. And most times the wrestler would win, unless he gets knocked the fuck out with a punch or kick, but usually they do a double leg take down, get the karate guy or boxer down and have to be strong enough to keep them down

 

[Gooch1034]

If you were talking about say 160-170 lb trained male fighter, I can understand your thinking. How is she gonna choke out Rice? I wrestled for 4 years in HS and won states 2 yrs and place 2nd in NE tourny. I wasnt the most finesse guy or had the knowledge and moves under my belt. Frankly I would out muscle guys and get out of their moves, leg locks were a lit tougher or so were double chicken wings. Half nelsons not so much, and of course full ones were illegal .

No mind you there was no MMA back then and judo wasnt talked about, so I dont follow. The big thing back then was who would win between a boxer, karate guy and wrestler. And most times the wrestler would win, unless he gets knocked the fuck out with a punch or kick, but usually they do a double leg take down, get the karate guy or boxer down and have to be strong enough to keep them down

Like I said before, you may be right? But assuming this fight wouldn't be going the distance, there are ways Ronda could win and going for something that isn't based on strength would be the best way.

 

[flyerhawk]

I see what you are saying and that very well could be the case? The "mistake" I was referring to was more of a missed punch that creates an opening to a choke or throw? Judo especially doesn't see size as much as other MA's but I basically just see Ronda as a smaller MMA trained guy fighting Ray Rice. If Ray were the winner, he would have to win by KO and I don't think it would be as easy as some think. Just my opinion. Brock Lesner lost to Mir with an ankle lock. Size is a big deal but it doesn't decide everything. I am starting to wish this fight would really happen just to see how things fall.

Well I would say my problem with this argument is that she isn't just a really small guy. She is a small woman. The strength difference between the two is massive. It isn't just that he is 80 pounds heavier than here. It is the fact that he is significantly stronger that if she were a 5'7" male that were 130 lbs.

I am not saying definitely one way or the other but there comes a time when sheer power overwhelms you. A 12 year old boy could be an expert at some discipline but his lack of body strength would make it almost impossible for him to do anything to a large man.

Now Rousey could certainly win. She could go after his balls and they were grappling that would certainly be her best option. I just don't know how she would ever get him to the ground. The is an elite athlete who gets paid to avoid lightning quick players from tackling him. You really think that Rousey could do a leg sweep and catch him? And even if she did, I'm not sure she would have enough power in the sweep to actually take him down.

Rice would simply sit back and go for jabs that would batter her. Maybe if he got stupid and went for a big punch and she leveraged that she could do something. But it would be hard.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Something to keep on mind also is that as the OP pointed out, Ronda arrogantly said that if it had been her instead of Rice's girlfriend in the elevator, things would have been different. We aren't talking about Rice sparring with Ronda in a cage with gloves and a ref. We're talking about the real world. TKD, BJJ, Judo, wrestling are all tough in their own right, but they are still sport fighting. Anyone who thinks Ronda and Rice walk into that elevator and Ronda is the one walking out.....come on now......