Why do the Pats

[NEPatsfan]

OK, Here it is...
Before all this happened, 12/10/2006, Miami had beaten the Pats 22-0, yes that's correct, zero. I was at this game in Miami. It was interesting watching Brady check off and Miami D going straight to where the play was going. When I got home I found out that Miami had admitted to separating the audio crowd noise from Brady's play-calling. They knew exactly where the offense was going. Because they admitted what they did, they were not fined. Belichick then set out to make this crap stop. He came up with what would prove to be a bad plan...

Belichick complained to the commissioner about the taping scandal - before spygate.
By his thinking, the taping was helping the weak teams more than the well-coached teams. Goodell didn't agree. Belichick thought he'd be smart and make it so obvious that Goodell would have to do something. It worked, but Goodell took it as showing him up. Goodell had told him not to do it and he did not like it!
Belichick was punished accordingly, not for filming in the wrong place but for embarrassing Goodell.

Add to that, that the commish was new in his role, so I'm sure he felt the need to bring the hammer down to show he is not only in control but strong.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

OK, Here it is...
Before all this happened, 12/10/2006, Miami had beaten the Pats 22-0, yes that's correct, zero. I was at this game in Miami. It was interesting watching Brady check off and Miami D going straight to where the play was going. When I got home I found out that Miami had admitted to separating the audio crowd noise from Brady's play-calling. They knew exactly where the offense was going. Because they admitted what they did, they were not fined. Belichick then set out to make this crap stop. He came up with what would prove to be a bad plan...

Belichick complained to the commissioner about the taping scandal - before spygate.
By his thinking, the taping was helping the weak teams more than the well-coached teams. Goodell didn't agree. Belichick thought he'd be smart and make it so obvious that Goodell would have to do something. It worked, but Goodell took it as showing him up. Goodell had told him not to do it and he did not like it!
Belichick was punished accordingly, not for filming in the wrong place but for embarrassing Goodell.

Sorry been busy here. So you are saying that the commish was allowed to levy the biggest fine in NFL history because he had a personal vendetta against BB yet the Fins cheated and were able to get out of it because they admitted guilt on the stand? That's quite the story what does other pats fans think of this theory?

If true it shows how BB pushes the envelope past the boundaries given by the league.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

It was already answered thoroughly. I provided you a link that I happen to concur with regarding what took place. It answers the questions you have asked. You just don't like the answers because they don't fit into your biased narrative.

Nothing biased from my end I've looked at the event from a common sense logic yet you choose the article from a biased NE reporter that no one has heard of??? After reading the novel I still don't quite understand where you're coming from as they skip over the punishment part and say that the pats were only punished for parity. Why then didn't BB appeal the fine if he did nothing wrong. I'd like to hear this in your own words and please be logical and realistic.

We can then hopefully move on.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Sorry been busy here. So you are saying that the commish was allowed to levy the biggest fine in NFL history because he had a personal vendetta against BB yet the Fins cheated and were able to get out of it because they admitted guilt on the stand? That's quite the story what does other pats fans think of this theory?

If true it shows how BB pushes the envelope past the boundaries given by the league.

I think if that was the case it actually makes what bellicheck did worse. That would say not only is that admitting he knew what he did was wrong but it was pretty meditated. The theory so counters the defense that there is nothing wrong with taping play calls and that they have no effect on the game

 

[NEPatsfan]

I think if that was the case it actually makes what bellicheck did worse. That would say not only is that admitting he knew what he did was wrong but it was pretty meditated. The theory so counters the defense that there is nothing wrong with taping play calls and that they have no effect on the game

Actually to this day he feels he followed the rules as written, and I agree having read them. Keep in mind the violation is for not following a memo. Said memo had no basis in the NFL rules nor By-laws.

The person that wrote the memo lacked any authority to change the rules that were in place.

Hence as pointed out in the article I provided the commish had to blend rules and by-laws together to get to the conclusion he came to.

To this day it's still perfectly within the rules to film the opposing teams sidelines, it simply must take place from an eclosed space such as a press booth for example.

The whole situatioin was botched by the league office from the beginning and then spiraled out of control through the media.

In my opinion it looked as though the league received a complaint, acted on the complaint without actually looking into the rules fully first. Then had to quick cover themselves by coming up with the ruling that they did which was a mish mash of the rules and by-laws.

And yes I think the fine was as high as it was because BB didn't follow the memo as directed because he felt the rule trumped it. The commish then felt slighted and came down hard to establish his authority as a new commish.

We'll never likley know the entire story since all sides remain silent on it. But we do know is that it had no bearing on the Pats success prior nor after.

The Pats remain the only team that is called a failure if they don't win the SB each year, all while ignoring they have been in 9 of the 15 AFC championship games since Tom Brady took ove the team as QB. Should the Pats win tomorrow it will be TB12's 6th SB appearance, something no other QB has done, and most don't even get to a championship game let alone the SB.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Actually to this day he feels he followed the rules as written, and I agree having read them. Keep in mind the violation is for not following a memo. Said memo had no basis in the NFL rules nor By-laws.

The person that wrote the memo lacked any authority to change the rules that were in place.

Hence as pointed out in the article I provided the commish had to blend rules and by-laws together to get to the conclusion he came to.

To this day it's still perfectly within the rules to film the opposing teams sidelines, it simply must take place from an eclosed space such as a press booth for example.

The whole situatioin was botched by the league office from the beginning and then spiraled out of control through the media.

In my opinion it looked as though the league received a complaint, acted on the complaint without actually looking into the rules fully first. Then had to quick cover themselves by coming up with the ruling that they did which was a mish mash of the rules and by-laws.

And yes I think the fine was as high as it was because BB didn't follow the memo as directed because he felt the rule trumped it. The commish then felt slighted and came down hard to establish his authority as a new commish.

We'll never likley know the entire story since all sides remain silent on it. But we do know is that it had no bearing on the Pats success prior nor after.

The Pats remain the only team that is called a failure if they don't win the SB each year, all while ignoring they have been in 9 of the 15 AFC championship games since Tom Brady took ove the team as QB. Should the Pats win tomorrow it will be TB12's 6th SB appearance, something no other QB has done, and most don't even get to a championship game let alone the SB.

But this is exactly the point that Clarkson is trying to make. BB assumes that his interpretation of the rules is correct. He acts on this assumption to his advantage until the league tells him no. In this case he acted again even though the league basically said hey buddy tone it down.

I bolded the part where you are contradicting yourself. First you are finally admitting that we will never know the whole story as sides were quiet then doubling back and saying but of course it had no effect previously or after??? How can you make that statement. BB is known to push the envelope where he'll take advantage of gray area rules who's to say that he didn't reinvent the taping to an unprecedented level. Maybe he was able to use film with sound and possibly use it during the same games...after all wasn't he the king of half time adjustments? I remember Mooch starting to get into what he had done from his knowledge on the NFL Channel and quickly realized that he better stop....something smells that's all I know. I believe that the league wants it to disappear as it makes them all look bad...integrity is key in pro sports.

Whatever happened after with NE has no bearing what so ever...in a lot of people's opinions the teams were actually better and yet they failed to win a championship so how does that prove your point anyway?

Finally the ineligble receiver situation again proves BB taking advantage of an old rule that's outdated. Back in the day no one even thought that the game would move so fast...even today the refs can't react quick enough. BB cheaply took advantage of the flaw...yes he didn't break the rule he abused it this is why again the league has to look at it. I find it hilarious that pats fans called him ingenious when he ran it saying wow what a great football mind. Then when it looked like a cheap way to abuse the game they call out the Lions ran it first we're not cheaters! Which is it as you can't have both? The Lions also didn't make a farce out of it in a big playoff game...only BB would push it that far like a school kid finding a flaw in a video game and torching his friends. Yet you guys are so proud of him....comical.

 

[NEPatsfan]

You need to work on your understanding of contradiction.

As for the rules, i agree with BB. If you read the rules and by-laws he employed them as written. The league in it's ruling had to twist them. For example the rule says a camera can not be used in the field of play. So what is the field of play? You go to the leagues defintion and it states that it's the area in between the sidelines. The camera at no time was on the field it was outside the field.

The rules state that while filming the camera must take a shot of the time, down, & distance. The camera man in fact did that each play as seen on the copy of the video that made it out to the media via Jay Glazer if I remember correctly. Now this is an intersting one. if it's against the rules to film why do they have rules as to how filming needs to take place.

Furthermore in the rules you can find no rule stating that the opposing teams sidelines can't be filmed. It never existed nor does it today. The memo that went out wasn't based on any rules in the rule book nor anything in the by-laws. It was made up out of whole cloth.

The rule did state however that the cameraman when filming must be covered on all sides. It can be done from a booth on the sideline if a team felt like building one, but most film from up near the press boxes now. And yes they film the opposing teams sidelines.

Ultimately he was fined for allowing the cameraman to film from the sidelines and not a booth.
-------------------------------------
As for him using it, it was "ingenious" for him to use it when he did. Not sure who said he invented it as you seem to think was being said. There is nothing cheap about it, know the rules of the game you are playing.

Ultimately it comes down to your hatred of the Pats and all things Pats. Face it your favorite team is a joke by comparison to the Pats this past decade +. Tomorrow Brady will start his 9th AFC Championship game out of 14 years. (I don't count the year he sat out due to injury, for perspective reasons.) If the Pats are fortunate to win he will start his 6th SB, something no other QB has ever accomplished.

Meanwhile in Miami the coaching and QB carousel revoles around endlessley. Comical.

 

[Southieinnc]

I think if that was the case it actually makes what bellicheck did worse. That would say not only is that admitting he knew what he did was wrong but it was pretty meditated. The theory so counters the defense that there is nothing wrong with taping play calls and that they have no effect on the game

The memo went out precisely because everybody was doing it. Belichick said he thought he was within the rules. Patriots paid the fine and gave a #1 pick. We would all like to have been there when Goodell and Belichick talked about what happened.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Actually to this day he feels he followed the rules as written, and I agree having read them. Keep in mind the violation is for not following a memo. Said memo had no basis in the NFL rules nor By-laws.

The person that wrote the memo lacked any authority to change the rules that were in place.

Hence as pointed out in the article I provided the commish had to blend rules and by-laws together to get to the conclusion he came to.

To this day it's still perfectly within the rules to film the opposing teams sidelines, it simply must take place from an eclosed space such as a press booth for example.

The whole situatioin was botched by the league office from the beginning and then spiraled out of control through the media.

In my opinion it looked as though the league received a complaint, acted on the complaint without actually looking into the rules fully first. Then had to quick cover themselves by coming up with the ruling that they did which was a mish mash of the rules and by-laws.

And yes I think the fine was as high as it was because BB didn't follow the memo as directed because he felt the rule trumped it. The commish then felt slighted and came down hard to establish his authority as a new commish.

We'll never likley know the entire story since all sides remain silent on it. But we do know is that it had no bearing on the Pats success prior nor after.

The Pats remain the only team that is called a failure if they don't win the SB each year, all while ignoring they have been in 9 of the 15 AFC championship games since Tom Brady took ove the team as QB. Should the Pats win tomorrow it will be TB12's 6th SB appearance, something no other QB has done, and most don't even get to a championship game let alone the SB.

As a fan of the sport I sincerely hope you don't honestly believe that

 

[HammerDown]

Guys, I just have a minute to pop in and LOL @ the Pats and their fans.

 

[LogicMan]

Paper in Minnesota just wrote a great piece on Patriots haters and their denials of Patriots success. It's like a disease . Article nails these guys well who post on here. I will post it later.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Paper in Minnesota just wrote a great piece on Patriots haters and their denials of Patriots success. It's like a disease . Article nails these guys well who post on here. I will post it later.

did nehomer write the article

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Guys, I just have a minute to pop in and LOL @ the Pats and their fans.

They seem to be working extremely hard on the excuses. Usually a major sign of denial. They are also confirming the OT through their defensive reaction

 

[Southieinnc]

Sorry boys had a busy day. I prefer to use the common sense approach and when I've questioned pats fans all I hear are crickets or insults.

If you say that the only thing BB did was film from a wrong location then why the harsh penalty? After all according to you guys its all legal what he did so how on earth could the commish levy such a harsh penalty for something so medial as a camera man being in the wrong place? If you were BB and your camera man was simply in a wrong area but you didn't gain any extra advantage for this error wouldn't you appeal it? I know that I'd lose my mind but BB being the smartest coach on earth says and does nothing? Perhaps there was a little more on those tapes than what you are willing to believe. After all BB is very smart why would he sacrifice so much for little gain. We are talking about a 1st round pick....

I'd like to finally hear some logic behind this. Come on pats fans don't come back with nonsense think about it. Why would BB do something for little gain with high risk???

They seem to be working extremely hard on the excuses. Usually a major sign of denial. They are also confirming the OT through their defensive reaction

OK, I'm done. You (plural)said you wanted an honest accounting by Pats fan and we have given you that. Now you are reverting from honest discussion of what we think and now saying we are promoting a bunch of excuses. I thought it was only women that asked questions they do not want to hear the answer of?????

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The Pats will learn tomorrow that cheating never pays.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

OK, I'm done. You (plural)said you wanted an honest accounting by Pats fan and we have given you that. Now you are reverting from honest discussion of what we think and now saying we are promoting a bunch of excuses. I thought it was only women that asked questions they do not want to hear the answer of?????

I may have missed your post the thread is moving pretty fast. And the majority of the answers have consisted of "haters gonna hate" etc....... Give me a minute I'm looking forward to your response

 

[Sgthall999]

The Pats will learn tomorrow that cheating never pays.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

OK, Here it is...
Before all this happened, 12/10/2006, Miami had beaten the Pats 22-0, yes that's correct, zero. I was at this game in Miami. It was interesting watching Brady check off and Miami D going straight to where the play was going. When I got home I found out that Miami had admitted to separating the audio crowd noise from Brady's play-calling. They knew exactly where the offense was going. Because they admitted what they did, they were not fined. Belichick then set out to make this crap stop. He came up with what would prove to be a bad plan...

Belichick complained to the commissioner about the taping scandal - before spygate.
By his thinking, the taping was helping the weak teams more than the well-coached teams. Goodell didn't agree. Belichick thought he'd be smart and make it so obvious that Goodell would have to do something. It worked, but Goodell took it as showing him up. Goodell had told him not to do it and he did not like it!
Belichick was punished accordingly, not for filming in the wrong place but for embarrassing Goodell.

I didn't think I read that wrong. You're claiming what miami did occurred pre spygate and bellicheck felt it was wrong and held a negative impact on the game. If this happened pre Spygate , Bellicheck knew of the rules and he committed the act of recording opponents-which was proven. That makes what bellicheck has done that much worse

 

[TheRobotDevil]

With his tarnished career I don't see how anyone can use bellicheck and hall of fame in the same sentence. Do these questions surround the true HOF ciaches who played the game with integrity? Bill Walsh , Don Shula,Vince Lombardi hell even Ditka didn't cross the grey like bellicheck. And they all built their teams they didn't walk in to a team that was built by his predecessor and work the rules for the edge they needed to take the next step

 

[Sgthall999]

With his tarnished career I don't see how anyone can use bellicheck and hall of fame in the same sentence. Do these questions surround the true HOF ciaches who played the game with integrity? Bill Walsh , Don Shula,Vince Lombardi hell even Ditka didn't cross the grey like bellicheck. And they all built their teams they didn't walk in to a team that was built by his predecessor and work the rules for the edge they needed to take the next step

Well too bad for you, both BB and Brady will be in the hall of fame