Why Are We Not Trying To Trade RG3

[Sharkinva]

That is of course one way to look at it. The other is that the NFL must adapt as fewer and fewer college teams are using traditional pro style offenses and more are relying on the spread. I have been saying all along that the primary reason for the increased number of flame outs is because there is a rush to play these guys.....ready or not, the current NFL mantra is Sink or swim. Isn't it possible that giving these guys time to learn an entirely new way to play the game is and will be the best course for teams going forward? I know that, it's old school and that there is an impatience in our 30mins or less society, not to mention the money that these guys are signed for. Honestly, the great "sink or swim" experiment is failing these young men. Time to try something else!

So again I ask you, give us a LOGICAL flow chart of how teams balance a four year contract against a 3-5 year QB school which you propose?? Simple math year, a rookie can only be signed to a 4 year deal and a first rounder can have a 5th year option at a god awful price tag of $16.2 million and rising. I totally agree if this were the 1950's when teams could carry a roster of 90 and there was no free agency, your idea might have merit. But we are flipping the fuck out right now about essentially carrying one dead weight QB for a single season at $6 million. Can you really think ANY team would spend $20 million over four years for a guy to ride the pine in the hopes that he will be able to become a solid QB in year number 5 at a cost of yet ANOTHER $20 million??

 

[Stymietee]

What about the possibility that perhaps a lot of these successful college QBs will never be good NFL QBs regardless of coaching, sitting a few years, etc? Perhaps they have a skill set that is just suited for the college game. Again - good QB play goes well beyond having certain physical tools. In a lot of cases you can't tell how good a QB will be until he actually gets to the NFL level - Brady is a perfect example of this.

So basically, NFL teams should be less reliant on the farm system that feeds them in as much as QB's go, seeing that more and more of them are coming from environments with skillsets merely suited for the college game, right? Your Brady reference is noted, however in school he played in a more traditional pro style offensive system.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

That is of course one way to look at it. The other is that the NFL must adapt as fewer and fewer college teams are using traditional pro style offenses and more are relying on the spread. I have been saying all along that the primary reason for the increased number of flame outs is because there is a rush to play these guys.....ready or not, the current NFL mantra is Sink or swim. Isn't it possible that giving these guys time to learn an entirely new way to play the game is and will be the best course for teams going forward? I know that, it's old school and that there is an impatience in our 30mins or less society, not to mention the money that these guys are signed for. Honestly, the great "sink or swim" experiment is failing these young men. Time to try something else!

And again your theory that these QBs being rushed is not supported by the facts. Both of the
QBs I mentioned had early success. But sooner or later they need to be able to read a defense and react. This is now year 4 for Griffin, year 5 for Kap and both are going backwards. Exactly how many years to do recommend a team sit their young QB as they pay out tens of millions?

Try something else is a great suggestion. How about not putting the future of your franchise in the hands of a spread QB?

 

[Stymietee]

So again I ask you, give us a LOGICAL flow chart of how teams balance a four year contract against a 3-5 year QB school which you propose?? Simple math year, a rookie can only be signed to a 4 year deal and a first rounder can have a 5th year option at a god awful price tag of $16.2 million and rising. I totally agree if this were the 1950's when teams could carry a roster of 90 and there was no free agency, your idea might have merit. But we are flipping the fuck out right now about essentially carrying one dead weight QB for a single season at $6 million. Can you really think ANY team would spend $20 million over four years for a guy to ride the pine in the hopes that he will be able to become a solid QB in year number 5 at a cost of yet ANOTHER $20 million??

Simple........you're assuming that the transition would take up the entire first year contract. This is simply not true!

 

[Stymietee]

And again your theory that these QBs being rushed is not supported by the facts. Both of the
QBs I mentioned had early success. But sooner or later they need to be able to read a defense and react. This is now year 4 for Griffin, year 5 for Kap and both are going backwards. Exactly how many years to do recommend a team sit their young QB as they pay out tens of millions?

Try something else is a great suggestion. How about not putting the future of your franchise in the hands of a spread QB?

Great suggestion.......I wonder if the NFL would really be willing to not be so reliant on the farm system that produces these guys!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That 16 million is guaranteed only if he is injured this year and cannot pass a physical exam either at the end of this season or prior to next season. BTW: his current salary would have to have been paid had they kept him or not this year. Letting him go this year should have been a no brainer for a team (and a lot of its fans) that believe him to be a complete bust.......The exception being....... they did NOT release him and to me that is significant. Some will say that the only reason he's still here is Snyder and Allen, again I disagree. Just listen carefully to what's being said by Gruden about his QB's. "Right now, Kirk gives us the best chance to win......he's our QB for this year." Not exactly a ringing endorsement for KC, nor an indictment that with work, one of the others won't prove to be better than what's available "right now."

Sounds like the option is not straight forward, but there is a point next year that WAS has to release RG3 or pay him the '16 salary.

Gruden...yeah, those comments leave the door open, but I would be shocked if Gruden AND RG3 are in WAS next year.

 

[Stymietee]

Guys....right now I've got some running around to do, if there are other responses on this for me I'll get back to you a bit later. Thanks!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

So basically, NFL teams should be less reliant on the farm system that feeds them in as much as QB's go, seeing that more and more of them are coming from environments with skillsets merely suited for the college game, right? Your Brady reference is noted, however in school he played in a more traditional pro style offensive system.

Not stating that at all. I am not saying that the NFL should not continue to rely on colleges for their players. I am simply stating that some of those QBs are not suited for the NFL. This then relies on NFL scouts doing a better job & identifying players who are suited for the NFL.

You don't simply pick players because they play in big time programs or put up big numbers in college. Some conferences like the Pac 12 have more pro style offenses. Teams might also have to consider smaller time programs that do feature more pro style offenses & players. Trust me - there will still be plenty of players available from the college ranks.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Philly could do a trade and rework his deal, he does have that option as a player. As for not wanting him in the division, and especially in Philly. I think thats the one place and the one coach who could actually get something out of him. Thus I dont want to see him go there. I dont think he will ever become more than an average Pro Style QB. He is too set in his ways, and has too many bad habits. But if he goes to a coach willing to twist the system to fit his skill set I freely admit he could be a difference maker. Thus I would rather see him else where. The Browns would be ideal, but I dont think they are done with the Johnny Numb Nutz project just yet.

PHI...yeah...they could trade for his current contract under the framework of a long term deal...but, looking at it from RG3 standpoint (he has $16 mil coming to him next year) they pretty much would have to anoint RG3 the guy and make him a 3 or 4 yr deal far exceeding the $16 mil...I know Kelly walks to the beat of a different drummer and is unafraid to pull off such a deal, but that's REALLY stepping out on fate. The style and skillset seem to match, but Idt RG3 has shown enough to justify that type of commitment.

There's a few places where RG3 could latch on after he's released, but trade...I don't see it.

Pro Style...kind of reminds of the starter in WAS now...pretty avg. which isn't really a bad thing...acceptable actually.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Not stating that at all. I am not saying that the NFL should not continue to rely on colleges for their players. I am simply stating that some of those QBs are not suited for the NFL. This then relies on NFL scouts doing a better job & identifying players who are suited for the NFL.

You don't simply pick players because they play in big time programs or put up big numbers in college. Some conferences like the Pac 12 have more pro style offenses. Teams might also have to consider smaller time programs that do feature more pro style offenses & players. Trust me - there will still be plenty of players available from the college ranks.

The vast majority of top tier CFB programs run a version of the read option, because the vast majority of top HS programs run a version of the read option.

I think the question begs...do you take the more talented read option QB, or the lessor talented guy that ran a pro style OFC?

Lately, some teams are taking the more talent player and hope he can transition to the pro game.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The vast majority of top tier CFB programs run a version of the read option, because the vast majority of top HS programs run a version of the read option.

I think the question begs...do you take the more talented read option QB, or the lessor talented guy that ran a pro style OFC?

Lately, some teams are taking the more talent player and hope he can transition to the pro game.

Which has proved to be a big mistake in most cases. In college a lot of these guys are primarily asked to run the ball & also make pretty easy downfield passes. They almost always only rely on finding the primary or secondary receiver. This is obtainable in college since the level of talent & speed doesn't even come close to that of NFL defenses.

I think this just means that NFL FOs will have to work harder to find a QB that will work well in the NFL. It is not as if they need to find that many QBs. There are only 32 teams - you would think that over a multiyear period they could find a handful that could get the job done.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The vast majority of top tier CFB programs run a version of the read option, because the vast majority of top HS programs run a version of the read option.

I think the question begs...do you take the more talented read option QB, or the lessor talented guy that ran a pro style OFC?

Lately, some teams are taking the more talent player and hope he can transition to the pro game.

And how's that working out for them? There is no question that Griffin has more talent but it's also equally obvious that Kirk Cousins is the better QB. Again the miss rate on spread offense QBs is so high there is no doubt in my mind you take the player who is more pro ready.

 

[Sportster 72]

Not quite sure what is hard to understand here. There are 3-5 really good QBs, 3-5 pretty good QBs and 10-12 pretty good QBs and I might be stretching that last number .... in the entire NFL. I don't think there are 5 guys coming out each year that will succeed in the NFL if you send them to QB school. The numbers bare this out.

 

[anotheridiot]

It is not that a team wants to guarantee that money due to injury - it is that it is a condition of the contract as it is with many contracts. Otherwise - many NFL teams would simply discard many injured players & not pay them a cent.

As for RG3 getting injured entering next season - given his past this is entirely possible. That is one of the reasons why the Redskins would prefer not to play him next season & why teams probably won't trade for him now. If you receive him in a trade it would be risky to play him this season & possibly have him incur an injury that spills into next season.

You mean not play him this season? If he is not injured, he can be cut.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

You mean not play him this season? If he is not injured, he can be cut.

Yep - typo on my part. Sure the Redskins could cut RG3 & many folks have questioned why they have not as of yet. They may have their own reasons to include perhaps using him as insurance if Cousins were to completely fall apart or get injured which appears more unlikely at this pt. They may also be wary of a rival picking him up & having him do well as several have suggested. Who knows.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

This is key, though: the option is guaranteed for injury only. As long as Griffin’s healthy heading into next season, the Skins can cut him and pay out nothing.

Washington Picks Up Robert Griffin III's 2016 Option

Still does not make sense, why would you want to guarantee money only if a player is injured? Anyway, it seems like if he did get traded and play, got hurt entering next year, is the only way the team that would have traded for him was stuck with him.

Let me try to explain. The $16 million was a 5th year option but they had to decide back in March. As the Steeler fan implied there is great speculation that this was a Snyder call. He just wasn't ready to cut him loose. I was one of the few who was OK with that decision. As one of the last believers I could see a scenario where he played well, or showed just enough flashes of greatness, that the team would want to hang on to him. And sad as it is $16 million for a starting QB with big upside is a bargain. They picked up the option to protect the team should Griffin blow up.

But sadly a lot has happened from March until September and it became clear he could not play tackle football at this level. The issues are many, some like reading defenses could be learned. But one of his biggest, pocket presence amd avoiding the rush, may be something you either have or you don't and clearly he don't got it.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Nice explanation DGF and I too was ok with picking up the option at that time. Not ecstatic but ok. My thoughts included the fact that Griffin would have a short hook of about 4 games to show a turnaround and the likelihood of a catastrophic injury was slim with that. If he failed, bench him and move forward with choice number 2.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Which has proved to be a big mistake in most cases. In college a lot of these guys are primarily asked to run the ball & also make pretty easy downfield passes. They almost always only rely on finding the primary or secondary receiver. This is obtainable in college since the level of talent & speed doesn't even come close to that of NFL defenses.

I think this just means that NFL FOs will have to work harder to find a QB that will work well in the NFL. It is not as if they need to find that many QBs. There are only 32 teams - you would think that over a multiyear period they could find a handful that could get the job done.

I hate the spread or read option, but in CFB it works so I understand why coaches go to it. If you take a guy with NFL caliber talent that played in a read option...the learning curve is longer, but it might pay off...in this rookie cap era, a starting rookie QB gets 3-4 yrs to produce or it's on to the next one.

IMO...the smaller college guy that played in a pro style OFC...like a Romo, or Ben Roth is still there, but shrinking. These guys are getting taken lower in the draft, but few rise to become starters because they don't have NFL level talent.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

And how's that working out for them? There is no question that Griffin has more talent but it's also equally obvious that Kirk Cousins is the better QB. Again the miss rate on spread offense QBs is so high there is no doubt in my mind you take the player who is more pro ready.

Good point, but the miss rate on CFB QBs is pretty high anyway...If I'm a GM considering taking a read option QB...I go about it like GB...they got Brent Hundley in the 5th rd...this kid has plenty of time to get the pro game down between the ears before he has to take live snaps.

The game is so different that if you're making a franchise QB type decision, you need to be prepared to invest more than 4 yrs before you have a QB that's not surviving with his legs.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Good point, but the miss rate on CFB QBs is pretty high anyway...If I'm a GM considering taking a read option QB...I go about it like GB...they got Brent Hundley in the 5th rd...this kid has plenty of time to get the pro game down between the ears before he has to take live snaps.

The game is so different that if you're making a franchise QB type decision, you need to be prepared to invest more than 4 yrs before you have a QB that's not surviving with his legs.

See I don't agree you need to wait 4 years. There are plenty of examples of NFL QBs who came in and started right away and did great. Now are they spread QBs? No. But there is absolutely no guarantee 4 years will help a spread QB become a franchise QB. And it's still possible that the read option will go the way of the run and shoot and the wildcat. When it's all said and done the NFL is still about reading defenses, throwing to the right spot on time, and hitting what you are throwing at.

As for Brent Hundley he will never see the field because Rogers is awesome and he's never hurt.