Who will win the NFC West this year?

[jakedog56]

I've not seen anywhere a prediction of a Rams rise to the top. I do, however, feel the Rams can finally finish above .500 for the first time in a long time. Even 10+ wins is within reach.

First post of this thread.

 

[DunceKaep]

Its true. Kaeps physical abilities give him a higher ceiling than any QB in the game. He's more physically gited than Rodgers, Manning and Brady. Too bad that doesn't mean shit when you only have one throw and dont go through progressions.

That was my point. Having a "Higher Ceiling" doesn't mean shit.

Physical tools, RW will Never top Kaep
Intangibles that RW possesses will Never be topped by any QB.

Guess what wins SB's. That's right.

 

[cdumler7]

That was my point. Having a "Higher Ceiling" doesn't mean shit.

Physical tools, RW will Never top Kaep
Intangibles that RW possesses will Never be topped by any QB.

Guess what wins SB's. That's right.

I would slow down just a bit on the Intangibles part with RW. He obviously is cool under pressure but there have been lots of greats who can make the claim for best intangibles that they bring to the game.

Tom Brady won his what first 10 playoff games in his time in the NFL.
Joe Montana never lost a Super Bowl.
Peyton Manning actually has the most 4th quarter comebacks in NFL history.
Dan Marino isn't far behind him.
John Elway's nickname was "The Comeback Kid"

I could go on but there is a long list of current and past quarterbacks that have had intangibles out the wazoo. Not quite ready to list a 3rd year player among those quite yet. He is well on his way with his play on the field but give him a bit more time to add to the resume first.

 

[WizardHawk]

Never ceases to amaze me how many fans keep telling us we can't give credit for what RW has done over the last two years because he hasn't done it long enough to deserve consideration....

And then most of them give praise to Luck.

RW earned the praise he has so far. You want to compare him to some of the greats on the game? Compare his numbers to their numbers at this point in their career. Does it mean he is going to be a HOF and own the league? Of course not. It just means so far he has been beyond outstanding and that's all we could have asked for. It's more than good enough for now.

 

[cdumler7]

Never ceases to amaze me how many fans keep telling us we can't give credit for what RW has done over the last two years because he hasn't done it long enough to deserve consideration....

And then most of them give praise to Luck.

RW earned the praise he has so far. You want to compare him to some of the greats on the game? Compare his numbers to their numbers at this point in their career. Does it mean he is going to be a HOF and own the league? Of course not. It just means so far he has been beyond outstanding and that's all we could have asked for. It's more than good enough for now.

You can compare numbers and such and that is fine. RW is a great quarterback in this league and looks like he will be for years. I am talking about the intangibles side of it though. RW has great intangibles but when somebody says they will "NEVER be topped by any quarterback" that is a very very bold claim considering some of the greats this game has seen. First off the NFL is actually a young sport compared to most of the major sports in the world so to say already that somebody has reached a level that NOBODY ever will again is just ludicrous.

 

[WizardHawk]

You can compare numbers and such and that is fine. RW is a great quarterback in this league and looks like he will be for years. I am talking about the intangibles side of it though. RW has great intangibles but when somebody says they will "NEVER be topped by any quarterback" that is a very very bold claim considering some of the greats this game has seen. First off the NFL is actually a young sport compared to most of the major sports in the world so to say already that somebody has reached a level that NOBODY ever will again is just ludicrous.

Those over the top comments are often either tongue in cheek or said to stir up the shit.

No one knows what he will do in the future. We do know he has been a top 10 QB over his first two years and is one of the best in modern history against other QB's over their first two years.

He has promise and should/could keep growing and improving, but it isn't written in stone.

That lack of knowing the future doesn't take away from what he has already done and that's all I'm saying.

 

[cdumler7]

I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am trying to make sure those in history who have earned it with years of greatness do not have that watered down by saying a 2-year player is better intangibly than them. He can definitely get there but on this one I'm sorry to say he is best in history at something and will never be passed is really somewhat an insult to those guys. Again he can get there and is well on his way. Why are you in such a rush to make everybody believe in his greatness. Let his career continue to speak for itself.

 

[DunceKaep]

You can compare numbers and such and that is fine. RW is a great quarterback in this league and looks like he will be for years. I am talking about the intangibles side of it though. RW has great intangibles but when somebody says they will "NEVER be topped by any quarterback" that is a very very bold claim considering some of the greats this game has seen. First off the NFL is actually a young sport compared to most of the major sports in the world so to say already that somebody has reached a level that NOBODY ever will again is just ludicrous.

Yup, they may have EQUAL intangibles, but not better.

On a road trip home, RW will have printouts for him and his receivers on their next opponent. Now others may do this, but plenty don't. To improve on this RW could give the notes out earlier???

This is one example, there are plenty more.
He may never have the best stats, but what he lacks in height he makes up for with these intangibles, these are what make RW great. Sure, I guess someone might have been slightly better, but my point is the intangibles make THIS player better than his physical tools should allow.

Conclusion, IMO, many may have equal intangibles, but few if any have had better.
Is it OK for me to have this opinion?

 

[DunceKaep]

I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am trying to make sure those in history who have earned it with years of greatness do not have that watered down by saying a 2-year player is better intangibly than them. He can definitely get there but on this one I'm sorry to say he is best in history at something and will never be passed is really somewhat an insult to those guys. Again he can get there and is well on his way. Why are you in such a rush to make everybody believe in his greatness. Let his career continue to speak for itself.

I'm not saying that RW is the greatest QB.
I'm saying his intangibles (leadership, study, knowledge, preparation) are at the top. Others may be at the top too, that's why I said he won't be surpassed, I guess I should have written more words and explained myself better by clarifying that others past and present MAY BE EQUAL, but I don't see anyone with GREATER intangibles.

 

[SonnyCID]

I am not trying to take anything away from him. I am trying to make sure those in history who have earned it with years of greatness do not have that watered down by saying a 2-year player is better intangibly than them. He can definitely get there but on this one I'm sorry to say he is best in history at something and will never be passed is really somewhat an insult to those guys. Again he can get there and is well on his way. Why are you in such a rush to make everybody believe in his greatness. Let his career continue to speak for itself.

Who are you talking to here, Wizard? Nobody is trying make everyone believe anything. Again, you're making something out of nothing and taking one persons opinion, twisting it, and projecting it on a large group in a passive aggressive way.

 

[WizardHawk]

Who are you talking to here, Wizard? Nobody is trying make everyone believe anything. Again, you're making something out of nothing and taking one persons opinion, twisting it, and projecting it on a large group in a passive aggressive way.

He is one of a few people that likes to talk in circles about Wilson. I said clearly no one knows what his future might be and yet he asks why I'm pushing his greatness on people. All I said is he has had an outstanding last two seasons and his stats in both match up against anyone in the modern era over their first two years. In no way is that saying he is the greatest in the game today. Nor do I think that. He does stack up against those top players when they were in the start of their 3rd seasons, but of course they have something over him today given their experience. I can say that until I can't type anymore and will still get those same responses back. They only hear what they want to, not what you actually say it seems.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Who are you talking to here, Wizard? Nobody is trying make everyone believe anything. Again, you're making something out of nothing and taking one persons opinion, twisting it, and projecting it on a large group in a passive aggressive way.

Yup.

 

[SonnyCID]

He is one of a few people that likes to talk in circles about Wilson. I said clearly no one knows what his future might be and yet he asks why I'm pushing his greatness on people. All I said is he has had an outstanding last two seasons and his stats in both match up against anyone in the modern era over their first two years. In no way is that saying he is the greatest in the game today. Nor do I think that. He does stack up against those top players when they were in the start of their 3rd seasons, but of course they have something over him today given their experience. I can say that until I can't type anymore and will still get those same responses back. They only hear what they want to, not what you actually say it seems.

You're not allowed to talk about young player's early success and compare it to predecessors until after you have a decade of hindsight. Unless you're talking about Luck.

It really is a joke. It must suck not being able to appreciate great players until they're HOF locks at the end of their careers.

 

[cdumler7]

I was more commenting towards the person saying his intangibles cannot be beaten by any quarterback in the past or future of the NFL. Yes he has great intangibles and works his tail off. He is a great quarterback in the league but it is not like he is the only quarterback that works hard. Heck I have got the joy of watching Peyton Manning show just how much work he puts into preparing for every season and every game. He was one of the first to put in a home theater at his house just for watching game film. Nowadays obviously that has changed. Others have similar stories.

And you can recognize his greatness and enjoy the quarterback you have right now. I never said that and I never said you can't compare his stats. In fact I said you could. I said comparing him to the all-time greats in the category of "intangibles" is not something I would do right now. Plus honestly there is no way to measure that. We have no clue who works the hardest among all the quarterbacks in history. So to say because he hands out printouts of the next opponent on the ride home shows he is the greatest is just short-sided. Quarterbacks do a lot of different things to get ready. Manning puts on a passing week with all his receivers in the off season. Not every quarterback does that but they do other things that prepare them.

 

[WizardHawk]

I was more commenting towards the person saying his intangibles cannot be beaten by any quarterback in the past or future of the NFL. Yes he has great intangibles and works his tail off. He is a great quarterback in the league but it is not like he is the only quarterback that works hard. Heck I have got the joy of watching Peyton Manning show just how much work he puts into preparing for every season and every game. He was one of the first to put in a home theater at his house just for watching game film. Nowadays obviously that has changed. Others have similar stories.

And you can recognize his greatness and enjoy the quarterback you have right now. I never said that and I never said you can't compare his stats. In fact I said you could. I said comparing him to the all-time greats in the category of "intangibles" is not something I would do right now. Plus honestly there is no way to measure that. We have no clue who works the hardest among all the quarterbacks in history. So to say because he hands out printouts of the next opponent on the ride home shows he is the greatest is just short-sided. Quarterbacks do a lot of different things to get ready. Manning puts on a passing week with all his receivers in the off season. Not every quarterback does that but they do other things that prepare them.

He was saying in his opinion (and opinions are what they are) that you can't top his intangibles because he is as hard working as is possible to be. He clearly said there are others at that same level (Peyton would presumably be one), but neither (or the others he feels are with them) can actually do anything more than they already do.

 

[DunceKaep]

He was saying in his opinion (and opinions are what they are) that you can't top his intangibles because he is as hard working as is possible to be. He clearly said there are others at that same level (Peyton would presumably be one), but neither (or the others he feels are with them) can actually do anything more than they already do.

Exactly.

RW has (Nearly) mastered the ability to makes those around him better football players.
Do Brady and Peyton makes the players around them better? Of course they do.

Does a guy like Cutler or Jeff George do that? No!

 

[cdumler7]

He was saying in his opinion (and opinions are what they are) that you can't top his intangibles because he is as hard working as is possible to be. He clearly said there are others at that same level (Peyton would presumably be one), but neither (or the others he feels are with them) can actually do anything more than they already do.

Like you said opinion. We have no clue who actually works the hardest. There might be a quarterback that works an extra hour more than any other quarterback but that doesn't actually mean intangibly they are better. I guess here you might want to look up the word intangibles because it is a lot than just how hard you work. Also why can't I state my opinion on the issue. You guys are jumping down my throat when all I did was disagree with another persons opinion. Kind of thought that was the point of these boards.

 

[WizardHawk]

Like you said opinion. We have no clue who actually works the hardest. There might be a quarterback that works an extra hour more than any other quarterback but that doesn't actually mean intangibly they are better. I guess here you might want to look up the word intangibles because it is a lot than just how hard you work. Also why can't I state my opinion on the issue. You guys are jumping down my throat when all I did was disagree with another persons opinion. Kind of thought that was the point of these boards.

So you can make a counterpoint and it's nothing more than that, but if anyone then offers another counter they are jumping down your throat?

Not like I said you aren't allowed to post, I simply questioned some of the other comments attached.

As for me looking up a word, I'll again point out it was HIS opinion and how I interpreted what he meant by it. I would also point out that work ethic is a part of that intangible thing.

As for how hard they work, Wilson likely isn't alone in this, but he is the first one in the building most days and is told to leave late night. He is literally there until told to leave and then goes home and studies more. Again, not alone in that and he said he very much picked up some of that after watching Peyton and Breez.

 

[cdumler7]

So you can make a counterpoint and it's nothing more than that, but if anyone then offers another counter they are jumping down your throat?

Not like I said you aren't allowed to post, I simply questioned some of the other comments attached.

As for me looking up a word, I'll again point out it was HIS opinion and how I interpreted what he meant by it. I would also point out that work ethic is a part of that intangible thing.

As for how hard they work, Wilson likely isn't alone in this, but he is the first one in the building most days and is told to leave late night. He is literally there until told to leave and then goes home and studies more. Again, not alone in that and he said he very much picked up some of that after watching Peyton and Breez.

Well when part of a response to my response is to insult me then yeah I would say that is going over the top. I stated my opinion and obviously some of you don't agree and that is fine. I have never once said that Wilson shouldn't be lifted up for how he has played these first 2 years. I have never said that about Luck either. You just automatically assume that because I have said slow down just a bit on the Wilson being mentioned among HOF players that I wouldn't hold Luck to that same standard. When he was put in that tier 1 of quarterbacks I was one that disagreed with that assessment. There are quarterbacks in his own draft class like that of Wilson that have better credentials to have their name mentioned with those guys than that of Luck. Now I do like Luck's potential to eventually be the top of the class but he is not there yet. At this point I am one that would say Wilson has been the best of that draft class. RGIII was actually my top guy after the rookie seasons but his injury really set him back. We shall see if he can get back to his old form or not. Wilson though has been the steady performer week in and week out of his career and a big part of that is how much preparation he puts in it. I recognize how hard he works. And I do realize that is part of those intangibles.

 

[WizardHawk]

Never ceases to amaze me how many fans keep telling us we can't give credit for what RW has done over the last two years because he hasn't done it long enough to deserve consideration....

And then most of them give praise to Luck.

Well when part of a response to my response is to insult me then yeah I would say that is going over the top. I stated my opinion and obviously some of you don't agree and that is fine. I have never once said that Wilson shouldn't be lifted up for how he has played these first 2 years. I have never said that about Luck either. You just automatically assume that because I have said slow down just a bit on the Wilson being mentioned among HOF players that I wouldn't hold Luck to that same standard. ...

Sensitive much?

I didn't quote you or name you in that first quote above and yet you took it as me personally insulting you?

Really man, these 3-4 pages of pissing in the wind have got to stop. It isn't productive or interesting to ANYONE on the site. It really isn't.

My first post was a general observation and no reasonable person could take it otherwise. There are threads up here telling us how awesome Luck is and some of those same posters tell us to wait and see on RW. That's all I said and now your panties are all wadded up.

I made an observation and after you came back at me on it I clarified it. I was simply translating what DK was saying, or at least how I took what he said.