When will Lebron pass Jordan?

[msgkings322]

The Rockets are a prime example of this. Very little D but still make the WCF and had the best record in the regular season.

This is just completely untrue, they were among the league leaders in defensive efficiency this year. Also, did you even watch the game last night?

 

[flyerhawk]

This is just completely untrue, they were among the league leaders in defensive efficiency this year. Also, did you even watch the game last night?

I think you know the answer to that question.

 

[shopson67]

Pretty much agree with this. Hayward is a great player to have but he made 1 all-star team in 6 years. He's not exactly an elite talent.

Brown and Tatum are FAR more likely to be the elite players of that team.

Someone's coming off the bench, and I doubt it's Hayward and his contract. Either that, or someone's getting traded.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

This is just completely untrue, they were among the league leaders in defensive efficiency this year. Also, did you even watch the game last night?

I did.

I also posted that before the game last night.

 

[flyerhawk]

Someone's coming off the bench, and I doubt it's Hayward and his contract. Either that, or someone's getting traded.

Exactly right.

Fans and pundits have a tendency to look at things in aggregate. Thus bringing back Kyrie and Hayward automatically makes the Celtics "better". They forget that there are only 5 players on the court and putting Kyrie and Hayward on the court means that other players need to sit.

With regards to Hayward, that means sitting one of Tatum or Brown a lot more. Assuming he comes back 100%. Is Hayward significantly better than those two? Maybe, maybe not. Especially next year now that they have the experience of this year.

 

[flyerhawk]

I did.

I also posted that before the game last night.

Were the Rockets not one of the top teams in defensive efficiency last season before the game?

 

[shopson67]

Exactly right.

Fans and pundits have a tendency to look at things in aggregate. Thus bringing back Kyrie and Hayward automatically makes the Celtics "better". They forget that there are only 5 players on the court and putting Kyrie and Hayward on the court means that other players need to sit.

With regards to Hayward, that means sitting one of Tatum or Brown a lot more. Assuming he comes back 100%. Is Hayward significantly better than those two? Maybe, maybe not. Especially next year now that they have the experience of this year.

True, but it also matches up those guys pushed down in the rotation with the other team's depth players instead of starters, increasing the power of that second team considerably. Celtics have some decisions to be made at PG especially, as contracts are coming due...

 

[flyerhawk]

True, but it also matches up those guys pushed down in the rotation with the other team's depth players instead of starters, increasing the power of that second team considerably. Celtics have some decisions to be made at PG especially, as contracts are coming due...

Sure. But Jaylen Brown at 34 minutes is going to have more impact than Jaylen Brown at 18 minutes.

And to be clear, the Celtics will be better with Hayward and Kyrie back assuming they are both 100%. But it is not a dramatic change. And if they lose Smart and Baynes next year, they may wind up being a worse team than they are right now.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Were the Rockets not one of the top teams in defensive efficiency last season before the game?

That was my mistake. I was thinking about Harden more than anything

 

[flyerhawk]

That was my mistake. I was thinking about Harden more than anything

Fair enough. Capela and Moute really help to bolster their defense.

 

[larryjohn]

Exactly right.
Fans and pundits have a tendency to look at things in aggregate. Thus bringing back Kyrie and Hayward automatically makes the Celtics "better". They forget that there are only 5 players on the court and putting Kyrie and Hayward on the court means that other players need to sit.

I was surprised that the Cavs picked on Rozier's defense so much in game 4. They clearly targeted him -- and it worked almost all the time. I'd expect the Celtics to adjust some for game 5.

Lebron & Cavs are very good at identifying who they want to switch & creating mismatches. I think JVG & Mark J talked about how there were too many "automatic switches" on weak pick & rolls. I agree.

 

[shopson67]

Sure. But Jaylen Brown at 34 minutes is going to have more impact than Jaylen Brown at 18 minutes.

And to be clear, the Celtics will be better with Hayward and Kyrie back assuming they are both 100%. But it is not a dramatic change. And if they lose Smart and Baynes next year, they may wind up being a worse team than they are right now.

I think Rozier is getting overvalued, as Kyrie is by leaps and bounds the better player IMO. The Hayward/Tatum minutes battle is going to be tough, not much dropoff there, and Hayward may have to play some SG.

 

[shopson67]

I was surprised that the Cavs picked on Rozier's defense so much in game 4. They clearly targeted him -- and it worked almost all the time. I'd expect the Celtics to adjust some for game 5.

Lebron & Cavs are very good at identifying who they want to switch & creating mismatches. I think JVG & Mark J talked about how there were too many "automatic switches" on weak pick & rolls. I agree.

I agree, it is far too easy to get some of these teams to switch. Just walk into someone's defender and they switch. If a quick move isn't made, fight around that "screen" (more like a shove in most cases, lol).

 

[msgkings322]

Fair enough. Capela and Moute really help to bolster their defense.

And Paul and Tucker. Moute is getting very few minutes for whatever reason

 

[flyerhawk]

I think Rozier is getting overvalued, as Kyrie is by leaps and bounds the better player IMO. The Hayward/Tatum minutes battle is going to be tough, not much dropoff there, and Hayward may have to play some SG.

I actually think Smart is the bigger difference maker for the Celtics at least in the playoffs. IMO, he's played his way into a very nice contract offer in the offseason.

 

[shopson67]

I actually think Smart is the bigger difference maker for the Celtics at least in the playoffs. IMO, he's played his way into a very nice contract offer in the offseason.

He's another guy that for some reason gets a pass from the refs to really manhandle people defensively. Never understand how the whistle gets swallowed for certain players...he does play hard all the time though.

 

[flyerhawk]

He's another guy that for some reason gets a pass from the refs to really manhandle people defensively. Never understand how the whistle gets swallowed for certain players...he does play hard all the time though.

The Pistons approach. If you foul on every play the refs stop calling it.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Sure. But Jaylen Brown at 34 minutes is going to have more impact than Jaylen Brown at 18 minutes.

And to be clear, the Celtics will be better with Hayward and Kyrie back assuming they are both 100%. But it is not a dramatic change. And if they lose Smart and Baynes next year, they may wind up being a worse team than they are right now.

The Celtics would benefit greatly from having a stronger starting unit and a deeper bench to think otherwise is foolish.

You really think Brown's playing time would be cut that much? He was starting opening night with a healthy Hayward, I gotta think he's getting more than 18mins...


Marcus Morris was hurt but I still think this was their intended go-to lineup

Smart is most likely not going to be with the Celtics next season (at least that's the talk 'round these parts)

 

[flyerhawk]

The Celtics would benefit greatly from having a stronger starting unit and a deeper bench to think otherwise is foolish.

You really think Brown's playing time would be cut that much? He was starting opening night with a healthy Hayward, I gotta think he's getting more than 18mins...


Marcus Morris was hurt but I still think this was their intended go-to lineup

Smart is most likely not going to be with the Celtics next season (at least that's the talk 'round these parts)

I can't really say whose playing time would be cut but if Hayward is going to be a typical starter then that would mean 30+ minutes. Those minutes necessarily would have to come from guys on the court now.

I guess they could play Hayward at PF but talk about playing small ball. Do you really think that Hayward could bang around in the paint consistently?

Obviously the Celtics are probably the epitome of positionless basketball but ultimately they still need to deal with the physicality of other teams.

I do think it will be very tough for the Celtics to keep Smart.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

^Yeah, I would probably try Tatum at PF instead of Hayward and if the opponent dictates you go bigger, there's Morris or Baynes but it seems Stevens wanted to go small.

Let's get this thread back on topic. Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is #2.

The GOAT

#2