When will Lebron pass Jordan?

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Can you spot the diffrence......


Jordan comes into the league and gets all the praise and hype. His runs up against Veteran experienced deep talented championship level Celtic and Pistons teams. They resent him for the hype and make life miserable his first few years. Jordan finally breaks through and gets 1 total series victory versus them.

Lebron comes into the league and gets all the praise and hype. He runs up against Veteran experienced deep talented championship level Celtic and Pistons teams. They resent him for the hype and make life miserable his first few years. Lebron finally breaks through and gets 3 total series victories versus them.

After the breakthrough, Jordan dominates the East. He ocaisonally gets pushed to 6 or 7 games versus good but not great teams like the Knicks and Pacers and even a fluke 60 win Hawks team. But, the East is just not good enough to beat Prime Jordan.

After the breakthrough, Lebron dominates the East. He ocaisonally gets pushed to 6 or 7 games versus the good but not great teams like the Raptors and Pacers and even a fluke 60 win Hawks team. But, the East is just not good enough to beat Prime Lebron.



But, somehow Jordan played in a tough East, while Lebron played in weak East??!??

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Can you spot the diffrence......


Jordan comes into the league and gets all the praise and hype. His runs up against Veteran experienced deep talented championship level Celtic and Pistons teams. They resent him for the hype and make life miserable his first few years. Jordan finally breaks through and gets 1 total series victory versus them.

Lebron comes into the league and gets all the praise and hype. He runs up against Veteran experienced deep talented championship level Celtic and Pistons teams. They resent him for the hype and make life miserable his first few years. Lebron finally breaks through and gets 3 total series victories versus them.

After the breakthrough, Jordan dominates the East. He ocaisonally gets pushed to 6 or 7 games versus good but not great teams like the Knicks and Pacers and even a fluke 60 win Hawks team. But, the East is just not good enough to beat Prime Jordan.

After the breakthrough, Lebron dominates the East. He ocaisonally gets pushed to 6 or 7 games versus the good but not great teams like the Raptors and Pacers and even a fluke 60 win Hawks team. But, the East is just not good enough to beat Prime Lebron.



But, somehow Jordan played in a tough East, while Lebron played in weak East??!??

Are you seriously trying to compare the 80's Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons to the Raptors, Pacers, and that fluke Hawk team? The Celtics are Pistons are all time great teams and did it for multiple years, come on now. The Celtics team he beat was old KG, Pierce, and Ray were all over 35 years old IIRC, then he needed Ray on his team to beat San Antonio. That Pistons team wasnt the same as the 04 title team either, so lets not act like they were some juggarnaut. Those 90's Pat Riley Knick teams and Larry Brown's Pacers were much better than you wanna give them credit for. That's not even mentioning the Orlando Magic with Shaq and Penny or the Heat with Zo and Tim Hardaway. The east was much tougher back then.

And are you going to deny that the eastern conference was weak this year?

 

[ericd7633]

Are you seriously trying to compare the 80's Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons to the Raptors, Pacers, and that fluke Hawk team? The Celtics are Pistons are all time great teams and did it for multiple years, come on now. The Celtics team he beat was old KG, Pierce, and Ray were all over 35 years old IIRC, then he needed Ray on his team to beat San Antonio. That Pistons team wasnt the same as the 04 title team either, so lets not act like they were some juggarnaut. Those 90's Pat Riley Knick teams and Larry Brown's Pacers were much better than you wanna give them credit for. That's not even mentioning the Orlando Magic with Shaq and Penny or the Heat with Zo and Tim Hardaway. The east was much tougher back then.

And are you going to deny that the eastern conference was weak this year?

I think his point was that by the time Jordan beat those teams, those teams were a shell of what they were. Both the Celtics and Pistons teams were old by the time Jordan beat them and started winning titles. The Pistons team Jordan beat in 91 only won 50 games during the regular season.

Those knick teams have to be some of the most overrated teams in history, at least IMO. I mean look at that roster and tell me how great they were. Also MJ only had to deal with Penny and Shaq for one season(1996). I didn't include 1995 since that was a shortened season for MJ. I do think MJ would have made the finals for 8 straight years, much like LeBron will probably do this season.

Anyway, this all comes down to who you want to be better than the other. I don't know why we can't get to a point where they are 1 and 2 all-time in some order and be done with it. You can make a case for both IMO.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

I think his point was that by the time Jordan beat those teams, those teams were a shell of what they were. Both the Celtics and Pistons teams were old by the time Jordan beat them and started winning titles. The Pistons team Jordan beat in 91 only won 50 games during the regular season.

Those knick teams have to be some of the most overrated teams in history, at least IMO. I mean look at that roster and tell me how great they were. Also MJ only had to deal with Penny and Shaq for one season(1996). I didn't include 1995 since that was a shortened season for MJ. I do think MJ would have made the finals for 8 straight years, much like LeBron will probably do this season.

Anyway, this all comes down to who you want to be better than the other. I don't know why we can't get to a point where they are 1 and 2 all-time in some order and be done with it. You can make a case for both IMO.

LOL@ the Pistons were old. Isiah was 30, Dumars was 28, Laimbeer was 34, Rodman was 30, and Salley was 27. That's old? And BTW they were back to back defending champs in '91.

The Celtics were old by the time the Pistons beat them, they were out of the way and no longer title contenders by the time Chicago started getting to the conference finals.

Those Knicks teams were not overrated when Riley was coaching them (92-95) They were the number 1 seed in the east in 1993, were the #1 defense in the league, and Riley was coach of the year. They had a 2-0 lead on the Bulls in the conference finals before losing 4 straight (poor Knicks, lol). Lost a tough Finals to Houston in 7 the next year, they were a legit team.

Orlando was 95 and 96, And there were the Heat, Pacers, and Hawks during those year as well. It was also a more physical game back then.

It's ok to say the east has been mostly weak during Lebron's tenure, it doesn't take away from his greatness at all, there's no need to disrespect other teams and other eras just to try to prop up Lebron's competition.

 

[ericd7633]

LOL@ the Pistons were old. Isiah was 30, Dumars was 28, Laimbeer was 34, Rodman was 30, and Salley was 27. That's old? And BTW they were back to back defending champs in '91.

The Celtics were old by the time the Pistons beat them, they were out of the way and no longer title contenders by the time Chicago started getting to the conference finals.

Those Knicks teams were not overrated when Riley was coaching them (92-95) They were the number 1 seed in the east in 1993, were the #1 defense in the league, and Riley was coach of the year. They had a 2-0 lead on the Bulls in the conference finals before losing 4 straight (poor Knicks, lol). Lost a tough Finals to Houston in 7 the next year, they were a legit team.

Orlando was 95 and 96, And there were the Heat, Pacers, and Hawks during those year as well. It was also a more physical game back then.

It's ok to say the east has been mostly weak during Lebron's tenure, it doesn't take away from his greatness at all, there's no need to disrespect other teams and other eras just to try to prop up Lebron's competition.

Yes, the core of that Pistons team was old. Laimbeer was 33, Vinnie Johnson was 34, James Edwards was 35, Aguirre was 31, Thomas was 30, but only played a couple more seasons, so he was clearly starting to break down. That's older than the Celtics you proclaimed old with Ray, KG and Paul Pierce.

I never thought of those Knicks teams as great or anything. Are they any different than the Magic in 2009? No.

I'm not disrespecting other teams or eras. But there seems to be this sort of mythical approach to Jordans era. I also don't think Jordan beat a team as good as the 2016 Warriors or 2013 Spurs in the finals.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Yes, the core of that Pistons team was old. Laimbeer was 33, Vinnie Johnson was 34, James Edwards was 35, Aguirre was 31, Thomas was 30, but only played a couple more seasons, so he was clearly starting to break down. That's older than the Celtics you proclaimed old with Ray, KG and Paul Pierce.

I never thought of those Knicks teams as great or anything. Are they any different than the Magic in 2009? No.

I'm not disrespecting other teams or eras. But there seems to be this sort of mythical approach to Jordans era. I also don't think Jordan beat a team as good as the 2016 Warriors or 2013 Spurs in the finals.

Early 30's is old now? Vinny was coming off the bench and producing, James Edwards wasn't asked to produce, Isiah, Dumars, and Rodman, were all 30 and under and John Salley was 27. That's not an old team no matter how much you want it to be. Isiah retired because he ruptured his achilles.

The Celtics team that Lebron beat in 2011: Ray Allen was 36, KG was 35, and Pierce 34. Older than that Pistons team you wanna put in a rocking chair.

 

[ericd7633]

Early 30's is old now? Vinny was coming off the bench and producing, James Edwards wasn't asked to produce, Isiah, Dumars, and Rodman, were all 30 and under and John Salley was 27. That's not an old team no matter how much you want it to be. Isiah retired because he ruptured his achilles.

The Celtics team that Lebron beat in 2011: Ray Allen was 36, KG was 35, and Pierce 34. Older than that Pistons team you wanna put in a rocking chair.

Sally was their 8th best player, not sure why you're mentioning him? Edwards averaged 13.5 ppg. He was a significant contributor. Early 30's isn't old, unless you're starting to break down like Thomas, Laimbeer and Aguirre were.

And yeah that core was slightly older. But it's evident they were better than that Pistons team based on performance and record.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

If you watched that Pistons team you would know Salley was an important player for them which is why I included him, I did forget Mark Aguirre though. Edwards was like their 4th or 5th option. (not a significant contributor stop judging everything off stats, it wasn''t like they were relying on his scoring to win games) Laimbeer is really the only one that was showing signs of slowing down during those playoffs.

Again they weren't and old team, some guys were a little banged up but that's life in the playoffs. That Celtics core was older.

 

[flyerhawk]

If you watched that Pistons team you would know Salley was an important player for them which is why I included him, I did forget Mark Aguirre though. Edwards was like their 4th or 5th option. (not a significant contributor stop judging everything off stats, it wasn''t like they were relying on his scoring to win games) Laimbeer is really the only one that was showing signs of slowing down during those playoffs.

Again they weren't and old team, some guys were a little banged up but that's life in the playoffs. That Celtics core was older.

And yet that Pistons team had one 50+ win team after 1991. After the 91 season they would not get out of the 1st round of the playoffs again in the 90s.

 

[ericd7633]

If you watched that Pistons team you would know Salley was an important player for them which is why I included him, I did forget Mark Aguirre though. Edwards was like their 4th or 5th option. (not a significant contributor stop judging everything off stats, it wasn''t like they were relying on his scoring to win games) Laimbeer is really the only one that was showing signs of slowing down during those playoffs.

Again they weren't and old team, some guys were a little banged up but that's life in the playoffs. That Celtics core was older.

Salley was 8th on the team in ppg and mpg with one start on the year. He had his role, but he wasn't a key contributor. Edwards was much more of a contributor than Salley was. 4 of their top 7 players weren't even in the league 3 years later. And Edwards was starting his drastic decline. If that's not an old team more than half of their key players wouldn't have been retired. Celtics core of PP, KG and RA was slightly older, but like I said performed better individually and from a team standpoint.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

And yet that Pistons team had one 50+ win team after 1991. After the 91 season they would not get out of the 1st round of the playoffs again in the 90s.

Because the team started to break up. Vinny Johnson left after the '91 season. Salley and Edwards were traded before the '92 season, Laimbeer retired in '93, Rodman was traded in '93, and Isiah ruptured his achilles in '94. Dumars was basically the last man standing. The '92 team was still good but they lost a first round series to Pat Riley's Knicks which were basically a newer version of the Bad Boys (they lost 3-2 the first round was best of 5 back then) That series was a war.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Are you seriously trying to compare the 80's Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons to the Raptors, Pacers, and that fluke Hawk team? The Celtics are Pistons are all time great teams and did it for multiple years, come on now. The Celtics team he beat was old KG, Pierce, and Ray were all over 35 years old IIRC, then he needed Ray on his team to beat San Antonio. That Pistons team wasnt the same as the 04 title team either, so lets not act like they were some juggarnaut. Those 90's Pat Riley Knick teams and Larry Brown's Pacers were much better than you wanna give them credit for. That's not even mentioning the Orlando Magic with Shaq and Penny or the Heat with Zo and Tim Hardaway. The east was much tougher back then.

And are you going to deny that the eastern conference was weak this year?

He still never beat those teams and never came close. He started dominating the East when those teams were toast. Lebron beat the champion Pistons by himself and he took the Big 3 Boston to 7 in their prime by himself. Then he beat them in Miami. That really wasn’t the point of his original post regardless.

And guess what the West wasn’t as good back then as it has been the last 15-20 years. MJ never saw a team close to the Warriors and Lebron has played them 3 straight years and beat them with the greatest comeback in NBA history

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Salley was 8th on the team in ppg and mpg with one start on the year. He had his role, but he wasn't a key contributor. Edwards was much more of a contributor than Salley was. 4 of their top 7 players weren't even in the league 3 years later. And Edwards was starting his drastic decline. If that's not an old team more than half of their key players wouldn't have been retired. Celtics core of PP, KG and RA was slightly older, but like I said performed better individually and from a team standpoint.

In the playoffs Salley was averaging 20mpg 7.5ppg and 4.1 rebs. Edwards was averaging 23mpg 10.7ppg and 2.5rpg. Not much difference there like I said Edwards wasn't asked to do a lot, he had one move on offense ( a little turn around jumper) the rest would come from put-backs or being set up by Isiah for a lay-up.

They still had plenty left in the tank to beat the Bulls in '91 if they were truly the better team, they basically quit at the end of game 4 and walked off shamefully before it was over. If you wanna say that the Pistons were old then you have to say that the Celtics were old when Lebron beat them.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

He still never beat those teams and never came close. He started dominating the East when those teams were toast. Lebron beat the champion Pistons by himself and he took the Big 3 Boston to 7 in their prime by himself. Then he beat them in Miami. That really wasn’t the point of his original post regardless.

And guess what the West wasn’t as good back then as it has been the last 15-20 years. MJ never saw a team close to the Warriors and Lebron has played them 3 straight years and beat them with the greatest comeback in NBA history

LOL @ this fanboy garbage.

The Pistons won the title in '04 Lebron beat them in '07 and Ben Wallace wasn't even on the team anymore.

He lost to the Celtics big 3 their first year together and again in 2010, and when he finally did beat them he had Wade and Bosh and the Celtics core was old and well past their primes.

Yes the west is tougher now than in the 90's, back then the east was the toughest conference now its the west.

 

[handicappers]

He still never beat those teams and never came close. He started dominating the East when those teams were toast. Lebron beat the champion Pistons by himself and he took the Big 3 Boston to 7 in their prime by himself. Then he beat them in Miami. That really wasn’t the point of his original post regardless.

And guess what the West wasn’t as good back then as it has been the last 15-20 years. MJ never saw a team close to the Warriors and Lebron has played them 3 straight years and beat them with the greatest comeback in NBA history

More proof

BOOM

 

[ericd7633]

In the playoffs Salley was averaging 20mpg 7.5ppg and 4.1 rebs. Edwards was averaging 23mpg 10.7ppg and 2.5rpg. Not much difference there like I said Edwards wasn't asked to do a lot, he had one move on offense ( a little turn around jumper) the rest would come from put-backs or being set up by Isiah for a lay-up.

They still had plenty left in the tank to beat the Bulls in '91 if they were truly the better team, they basically quit at the end of game 4 and walked off shamefully before it was over. If you wanna say that the Pistons were old then you have to say that the Celtics were old when Lebron beat them.

Average age of the Celtics top 8 players in 2011: 29.5

Average age of the Pistons top 8 players in 1991: 30.5

Celtics also had a better winning percentage the following year compared to the Pistons the following year.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

LOL @ this fanboy garbage.

The Pistons won the title in '04 Lebron beat them in '07 and Ben Wallace wasn't even on the team anymore.

He lost to the Celtics big 3 their first year together and again in 2010, and when he finally did beat them he had Wade and Bosh and the Celtics core was old and well past their primes.

Yes the west is tougher now than in the 90's, back then the east was the toughest conference now its the west.

I know you're new here but this board is full of lebron nuthuggers that have probably never even seen MJ play.

Fucking millennials

 

[Raw_Bee808]

I know you're new here but this board is full of lebron nuthuggers that have probably never even seen MJ play.

Fucking millennials

I'm beginning to notice that, now they are trying to gang up on me. I just can't take the fanboy responses which are basically the posting equivalent of "Lebron is the bestest ever" . There's seems to be some good knowledgeable posters here, I just need to learn who to ignore.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I'm beginning to notice that, now they are trying to gang up on me.

Oh yeah, they'll try to come up with all sorts of bullshit statistics to make it seem in the favor of lebron.

Wait till you hear the "In March of 2013, Lebron had a slightly better PER than MJ did in November 1991" crap.

Or....

3-5 is better than 6-0 because lebron made it to the finals 8 times

 

[Raw_Bee808]

I'm beginning to notice that, now they are trying to gang up on me.

Oh yeah, they'll try to come up with all sorts of bullshit statistics to make it seem in the favor of lebron.

Wait till you hear the "In March of 2013, Lebron had a slightly better PER than MJ did in November 1991"

Oh god, the stat whoring is the worst , they tell some of the story, not all of it and some people like to use them as the end all be all and they have all these advance analytics and shit that I have no idea what it even means and most of them probably don't either but as long as those stats Lebron is the bestest ever that's all that matters.