When Michael Sam the gay player from Missouri is not drafted what will the excuses be?

[Tharvot]

and if we were talking Heisman's and college running qb's I'd say you had a pretty good point. But again, we're not.

I guess in the past 10 years have they or have they not given defensive player of the year awards in the SEC to players that have been productive, unless cut short by injury, in the NFL? it's just a yes or no. I'd say it' a pretty easy yes for me at least. What's your answer?

2nd, do YOU believe this is the year they got it so wrong, they gave it to a guy that has no business in the NFL?

The Big 12 Defensive player of the year didn't even get drafted. You don't really have a leg to stand on in this argument. Sam had a great year but he was a niche player in a niche system. Overall skill set doesn't translate well to the NFL.

The NFL is a business and good players = winning = more money. If there is one moronic team that won't draft a potentially great player because he is gay, there are 31 other teams that will gladly step up to get him. The fact that no teams were very interested should tell you something about his value.

 

[RoboticDreams]

aww, look another one trying to be cute and completely unable to comprehend what's been written.

Lol, a badass and a smartass. You don't want to admit what's really at play here so I'll venture a guess. You're gay, aren't you?

 

[Mondio]

Their goal isn't to project someone to the NFL, so they didn't get anything wrong. It is no different between offense and defense. Some guys are great in college and simply don't have the skill set to make the big leagues. Distinguishing between offense and defense is stupid.

Yes, this is the year the award went to someone without the skill set for the next level. He has never been considered an elite talent, so pretending the reason he's a late pick is because of his sexuality is absurd.

I didn't say he was picked late because of his sexuality. I asked why those who say he's going to suck are so sure, when he seems to be lumped into a group of those that consistently make it. I asked how many MO games they watched that made them an expert. I'm guess most have watched zilch. They're basing THEIR predictions on the fact that he's gay.

 

[jeffro151]

The Big 12 Defensive player of the year didn't even get drafted. You don't really have a leg to stand on in this argument. Sam had a great year but he was a niche player in a niche system. Overall skill set doesn't translate well to the NFL.

The NFL is a business and good players = winning = more money. If there is one moronic team that won't draft a potentially great player because he is gay, there are 31 other teams that will gladly step up to get him. The fact that no teams were very interested should tell you something about his value.

This. Sam had a good season for Mizzou, but when you dive into his stats game-by-game, you can clearly see that he had some really great games, and then some really bad games. For instance:

Good games-
vs Murray State- 7 tackles.
vs Arkansas State- 5 tackles, 3 sacks
vs Vandy- 5 tackles, 3 sacks
vs Florida- 4 tackles, 3 sacks

Bad games-
vs Georgia- 1 tackle
vs Tennessee- 1 tackle
vs Kentucky- 1 tackle

As you can see, over 75% of his sacks came in 3 games. He can't get stop the run. Watch his game film. He is always out of position.

 

[Broncos6482]

I didn't say he was picked late because of his sexuality. I asked why those who say he's going to suck are so sure, when he seems to be lumped into a group of those that consistently make it. I asked how many MO games they watched that made them an expert. I'm guess most have watched zilch. They're basing THEIR predictions on the fact that he's gay.

Because from everything I've read about him (only game I actually watched was the SEC championship game, and I don't remember anyone on Missouri's defense playing well that day) he's basically a one trick pony. He's got one move to get the qb. Now that worked great in college, but if you think one move to get after the qb in the NFL is going to work, you're wrong.

Now you add in that he's not expected to be able to contribute much to special teams, and the fact that he had a terrible combine, and you've got a guy who nearly went undrafted.

 

[NinerSickness]

wow, you're so close

I think I stated at the start I knew nothing of Missouri football. I"m guessing it's exactly the same for you, which again was part of my point that you just can't seem to grasp. Those cells are burning up, and on such meaningless garbage. Be careful

It wouldn't be the same without a 2-brain-cell reference from you Mongo. By the way, that was hilarious when you punched out that horse.

I did, in fact, watch a ton of Mizzu football this year, and I was a huge fan of EJ Gaines & I thought Sam was 6th - 7th round talent who would probably be drafted by a 4-3 team because he's not quick enough to play LB. Pretty good for 2 brain cells if you ask me!

 

[sonnyblack65]

It wouldn't be the same without a 2-brain-cell reference from you Mongo. By the way, that was hilarious when you punched out that horse.

I did, in fact, watch a ton of Mizzu football this year, and I was a huge fan of EJ Gaines & I thought Sam was 6th - 7th round talent who would probably be drafted by a 4-3 team because he's not quick enough to play LB. Pretty good for 2 brain cells if you ask me!

Mongo Mondio same difference

 

[NinerSickness]

Mongo Mondio same difference

I just wanted an excuse to make reference to Mongo punching out a horse. I'm laughing just thinking about that one.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You obviously know nothing of God's word. Study up on Leviticus, chapters 18-20, Romans chapter 1 and then 1st Corinthians chapter 6, verse 9.

Well gosh, if we're going to start condemning outright men who are sexually immoral, idolators (college football anyone?), and adulterers, the list of NFL players who meet your standards is going to shrink dramatically. Have any Alabama football players in the past 20 years been virgins on their wedding night?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

That is the most ignorant statement. Comparing any gay person to Jackie Robinson or the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement is an insult to humanity and shows you have an idiotic view of the world.

The reaction of a number of people in this thread suggests otherwise.

 

[JDM]

The reaction of a number of people in this thread suggests otherwise.

The simple fact that it is not a visible characteristic makes it incomparably different.


Sam is not the first gay player in the NFL.

 

[WizardHawk]

The simple fact that it is not a visible characteristic makes it incomparably different.


Sam is not the first gay player in the NFL.

What? You mean there weren't any closet blacks in Robinson's day?

 

[sonnyblack65]

I just wanted an excuse to make reference to Mongo punching out a horse. I'm laughing just thinking about that one.

Blazing saddles is a classic. Thats NFL acting at its finest with Alex Karas tuning up that horse

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The simple fact that it is not a visible characteristic makes it incomparably different.


Sam is not the first gay player in the NFL.

It's not a direct parallel, but there are strong similarities. And there were plenty of people during and before the civil rights movement who could pass as white but would have been ostracized had their heritage been known. Generally speaking, a person can hide his sexual preference much more easily than his race. But at the end of the day, it's an issue of judging someone based on an innate quality.

 

[JDM]

That's not the only huge distinction, either. While there is some possible level of discomfort among teammates, and some small level of public backlash, these are both mostly extremist viewpoints. The majority of this country isn't anti-gay, and practically the entire media is slobbing his knob (I almost took that out, but I'd say it about a straight guy so fuck it). At the point of Jackie Robinson, there was much less public support to cancel out the backlash. Statements like that dolphins player made wouldn't get a guy suspended; they were the norm.

 

[Naughtymax]

Redskin fans are racist drag queens, let's not use them as an example for anything.

That's horribly unfair to all the perfectly nice drag queens out there.

 

[Naughtymax]

Originally Posted by Bamabino
You obviously know nothing of God's word. Study up on Leviticus, chapters 18-20, Romans chapter 1 and then 1st Corinthians chapter 6, verse 9.

Oh, no. The semi-literate selective Bible literalists rise from the pigsty again. Go tell me about Leviticus 19:27(no cutting the hair on your temples or shaving), 20:9(no cursing your mother or father), 19:19 (no cotton-poly blend clothing), 20:18 (no banging a woman who is menstruating - may not be a problem for Bamabino unless his left hand menstruates). $20 says you violate or have violated these clear and rigid laws, all of which carry the death penalty in the Bible, on a regular basis.

I never cease to be amazed at the massive number of third-grade-dropout Bible thumpers who are ready to come tell us all about the iron-clad Word of God. Well, except the parts where God was Just Kidding, which anyone whose daddy married his sister going back 6 generations or more can easily distinguish.

If God hates gays so much, Thumpers, why does Jesus, speaking directly from heaven as it were, have nothing to say on the matter?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It took me the better part of two days, but having finally gotten through this thread, I figured I might as well share my thoughts.

So, the kiss. I heard a lot about it before I saw it. I approached it to some extent based on my perception of Michael Sam. Specifically:

I have a lot of respect for what Michael Sam is doing; there's no doubt that it takes a lot of courage to be the first openly gay NFL player, no matter how one goes about "coming out." He went into that not knowing who his teammates were, whether they would accept him, whether fans would accept him, or whether he would even be drafted at all, and that's pretty gutsy in my book. Especially for a young an unestablished player. After all, it wasn't long ago that Kerry Rhodes vanished from the league amid rumors that he was gay, and he was a good, established, 30-year-old veteran. Closer to Sam's announcement, Kwame Harris explained in national news how trying to hide his sexuality for so long caused him to lose focus and basically fall out of the league.

Do I think Sam's decision was entirely altruistic, intended solely to send a message to other gay people/athletes that it's okay to be open and be yourself? No. I think that's part of his motivation, but I also believe he's interested in benefiting from this. I don't love that and I don't love the way Sam has clearly and fairly aggressively sought the spotlight throughout this (preferred the way Jason Collins handled it), though I don't have a huge problem with it. Plenty of athletes, and people in general, are out to do as much for themselves as they can.

I can also see very practical reasons for coming out in the way that he did - beyond potential financial gain. When Sam came out in college, he was entering his senior year. He had formed bonds with a lot of the leaders of the team (wasn't necessarily one himself at that point as I understand it, but I haven't followed that particular aspect of this story closely), and probably had a pretty good idea that at least some prominent people on the team would support him. He wouldn't have that as a likely later-round rookie on an NFL team. This way, he fronts it. He also controls the "outing" if he had decided he's not willing to live in the closet.

So back to that kiss. Given the fact that Sam pretty clearly is ready and willing to capitalize on this story, I thought the kiss would be very contrived. After watching it, I didn't feel that way about the initial kiss. I actually thought it was a very human moment, in which he was overcome by emotion, and then kissed his partner in a pretty spontaneous way, and in a way that is very similar to what a lot of these guys do when there are cameras in their homes for the draft - with the obvious difference that his partner is male. I never want to like those super-sappy draft moments, but I've got to admit that I do. I thought it was a bit strange that he didn't appear to have family with him, but when I looked into it a bit, I recalled that his father condemned him when he first came out (and I believe lives in a home in TX), and his brothers are all dead, missing, or in prison.

To me, the cake thing was contrived and over the top. It seemed to be done primarily (solely?) because there were cameras in the room. I didn't think it was necessary, it didn't add anything to the moment in my opinion, and it went back to that "trying to capitalize on the moment" thing that I do find at least somewhat distasteful about the way Sam has handled this. That said, it certainly didn't outrage me. I view it in a similar light to Gronk completely taking over the stage at the draft after he was picked a few years ago - self-aggrandizement for its own sake. And plenty of NFL players shamelessly engage in that sort of behavior. I can't recall the outcry on those prior occasions that has followed this. The fact that it took the form of physical displays of affection don't really affect my opinion of it one way or the other.

 

[BOB11]

Can anyone name the last time a 7th rounder had a news conference?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

People are acting like Sam is somehow at fault for making this a story. Sure, he came out, and he's capitalizing on the press. But if it wasn't a story independent of that, the media wouldn't be following it. Can anyone name the last 7th rounder who was openly gay?

The fact that there is a nearly 400-post thread primarily focused on Sam celebrating the fact that he was drafted in the manner that, oh, 80% of other draft picks do clearly demonstrates that he is not a run-of-the-mill prospect.

I must say, I find it kind of amusing that so many people in this thread are in an uproar that the media is giving this so much attention. Newsflash, fellas: they're catering to you just as much as they are to the progressives.