What's the 2nd most important position in football after QB?

[ducky]

I think the old adage still holds true...1...QB, 2...blindside protector, 3...pass rusher

It still floors me that so many people are still saying LT. You can fake blindside protection these days. The team that won the SB had Ryan Harris there. Your Steelers hardly missed a beat when Beechum went down. Carolina had Oher on a paltry contract.

With it being so much easier to run in this league (and teams still deciding they don't want to even if it is easy) and with passing offenses being so much more dink and dunk than the vertical offenses we saw 20 years ago, LT just isn't the impact position it used to be.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

It still floors me that so many people are still saying LT. You can fake blindside protection these days. The team that won the SB had Ryan Harris there. Your Steelers hardly missed a beat when Beechum went down. Carolina had Oher on a paltry contract.

With it being so much easier to run in this league (and teams still deciding they don't want to even if it is easy) and with passing offenses being so much more dink and dunk than the vertical offenses we saw 20 years ago, LT just isn't the impact position it used to be.

IMO, the OL will always be a 5 man job...I agree that you don't need Joe Thomas to be successful in the NFL...but if you have that guy that can handle his side alone, you can slide protection around to help out other guys...not a whole lot different from having a shutdown CB.

On the flip...and this runs counter to your point...imo CAR got killed in the SB b/c they decided to leave the OTs 1 on 1 with the edge rushers and without a NE style short passing game...they were not up to the task. DEN you might remember had the rookie Ty Sambrialo take over for Clady initially...they had to move him in favor Harris...it wasn't working.

PIT...Alejandro did a decent job subbing for Beachum and it's starting to look like he's the new LT in '16, but not many teams have a HOF position coach. Munchak saw this guy in camp (never really played OL before as a pro) and said that he liked what he saw and thought he could work with him...he was right.

LT or blindside protector is still very important, but you're right, not like it was when everything was 5 and 7 step drops.

 

[SonnyCID]

If you go by average salaries WR is 2nd behind QB, then pass rusher, then LT.

 

[HammerDown]

Was just having an interesting debate about the #1 pick, and thought I'd start this and see how the board feels about it. I went with LT. Protecting your QB is the most important thing IMO.

Zero doubt.

In order of importance

1.) Get a QB
2.) Protect that QB
3.) Go after the QB

Therefore...

1.) QB
2.) LT
3.) DE

 

[Jim Rome is Flaming]

Running back is the least important position of the entire starting 22. Not even debatable anymore.

I'd argue WR is close. Look at the WR corps for the last 5 SB winners. Who is really elite in that list? Cruz was very good in 2011, but nobody would argue he was the reason they won the SB. 2-3 years ago you could argue Demaryius, and Edelman/Sanders/Tate are solid, but other than that this list is pretty meh.

2011 Giants

• 13 Ramses Barden
• 80 Victor Cruz
• 12 Jerrel Jernigan KR
• 82 Mario Manningham
• 88 Hakeem Nicks
• 15 Devin Thomas

2012 Ravens

• 81 Anquan Boldin
• 17 Tandon Doss
• 12 Jacoby Jones RS
• 16 David Reed
• 82 Torrey Smith
• 83 Deonte Thompson

2013 Seahawks

• 89 Doug Baldwin
• 11 Percy Harvin
• 15 Jermaine Kearse
• 83 Ricardo Lockette
• 19 Bryan Walters
• 81 Golden Tate

2014 Patriots

• 80 Danny Amendola KR
• 82 Josh Boyce
• 11 Julian Edelman PR
• 19 Brandon LaFell
• 18 Matthew Slater
• 84 Brian Tyms

2015 Broncos

• 12 Andre Caldwell
• 16 Bennie Fowler
• 14 Cody Latimer
• 11 Jordan Norwood
• 10 Emmanuel Sanders
• 88 Demaryius Thomas

Meanwhile, among who I'd argue are the truly elite WRs of the past 5 seasons

• Calvin Johnson
• Brandon Marshall
• AJ Green
• Dez Bryant
• Julio Jones
• Antonio Brown

1 has played in a super bowl (Brown, in his rookie season, where he tallied 16 catches for 167 yards)
1 more played in a conference championship (Julio, in 2012, who did have a very good season 79/1198/10)

 

[Jakology]

I'd argue WR is close. Look at the WR corps for the last 5 SB winners. Who is really elite in that list? Cruz was very good in 2011, but nobody would argue he was the reason they won the SB. 2-3 years ago you could argue Demaryius, and Edelman/Sanders/Tate are solid, but other than that this list is pretty meh.

2011 Giants

• 13 Ramses Barden
• 80 Victor Cruz
• 12 Jerrel Jernigan KR
• 82 Mario Manningham
• 88 Hakeem Nicks
• 15 Devin Thomas

2012 Ravens

• 81 Anquan Boldin
• 17 Tandon Doss
• 12 Jacoby Jones RS
• 16 David Reed
• 82 Torrey Smith
• 83 Deonte Thompson

2013 Seahawks

• 89 Doug Baldwin
• 11 Percy Harvin
• 15 Jermaine Kearse
• 83 Ricardo Lockette
• 19 Bryan Walters
• 81 Golden Tate

2014 Patriots

• 80 Danny Amendola KR
• 82 Josh Boyce
• 11 Julian Edelman PR
• 19 Brandon LaFell
• 18 Matthew Slater
• 84 Brian Tyms

2015 Broncos

• 12 Andre Caldwell
• 16 Bennie Fowler
• 14 Cody Latimer
• 11 Jordan Norwood
• 10 Emmanuel Sanders
• 88 Demaryius Thomas

Meanwhile, among who I'd argue are the truly elite WRs of the past 5 seasons

• Calvin Johnson
• Brandon Marshall
• AJ Green
• Dez Bryant
• Julio Jones
• Antonio Brown

1 has played in a super bowl (Brown, in his rookie season, where he tallied 16 catches for 167 yards)
1 more played in a conference championship (Julio, in 2012, who did have a very good season 79/1198/10)

I agree that WR is pretty low on the list as well, but I believe in today's NFL, WR's are more important than RB's. Just my opinion.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I agree that WR is pretty low on the list as well, but I believe in today's NFL, WR's are more important than RB's. Just my opinion.

It's definitely close, but RB loses out since you don't have the energy expenditure in either cap or draft picks to get a competent RB(s) so long as your FO is competent. I mean christ, KC has 3 RB's that average over 4 yards a carry; two of them over 5. One of them is undrafted, one was a 6th round pick, and Jamaal is a 3rd round pick.

 

[Jakology]

It's definitely close, but RB loses out since you don't have the energy expenditure in either cap or draft picks to get a competent RB(s) so long as your FO is competent. I mean christ, KC has 3 RB's that average over 4 yards a carry; two of them over 5. One of them is undrafted, one was a 6th round pick, and Jamaal is a 3rd round pick.

And yet @ElTexan still thinks they are the 2nd most important.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

And yet @ElTexan still thinks they are the 2nd most important.

RB's in terms of on field production have gotten so overrated, they're underrated if that makes sense. Drawing that proverbial (and actual) 7 man from makes it a lot easier for the QB to pick apart the defense. Still well worth finding a RB- it's just that the energy expenditure is much lower than it used to be.

 

[PDay8810]

And yet @ElTexan still thinks they are the 2nd most important.

"Why do you say that? (Just expounding. Not flaming anyone's opinion here. Just wanting legit discussion.)"

lol

 

[Jakology]

"Why do you say that? (Just expounding. Not flaming anyone's opinion here. Just wanting legit discussion.)"

lol

This is a legit discussion. Saying that RB is the 2nd most important position in football is not legit. And I'm not flaming the position. I'm just saying that it's wrong.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Serious question to the LT people: What's the difference between a good LT and a good RT? Why can't a good OT just be a good OT?

 

[Clayton]

This is a legit discussion. Saying that RB is the 2nd most important position in football is not legit. And I'm not flaming the position. I'm just saying that it's wrong.

I agree but only because its impossible to find an elite running back that could actually stay elite for a decade in the NFL anymore. Back in the day, you might only have a couple of athletic freaks on defense. Nowadays, every starter is an athletic freak of a savvy veteran. RBs aren't going to make multiple guys miss. RBs are too risky. Steven Jackson, Eli Manning, Big Ben and Larry Fitz were drafted the same year. Jackson's prime ended like 5 years ago and he is built like a tank for a RB. Eli and Big Ben probably have 3 more years in them. Larry Fitz maybe 2-3 years.

 

[PDay8810]

I agree but only because its impossible to find an elite running back that could actually stay elite for a decade in the NFL anymore. Back in the day, you might only have a couple of athletic freaks on defense. Nowadays, every starter is an athletic freak of a savvy veteran. RBs aren't going to make multiple guys miss. RBs are too risky. Steven Jackson, Eli Manning, Big Ben and Larry Fitz were drafted the same year. Jackson's prime ended like 5 years ago and he is built like a tank for a RB. Eli and Big Ben probably have 3 more years in them. Larry Fitz maybe 2-3 years.

Great points....Parcells said NFL RB's have a bulls eye on their jersey.

I can't say impossible, but the biggest attribute might become knowing when to dive into the turf on certain plays. You're 100% right in it won't come from a back running upright and lowering his shoulder everytime he see's the opposite colored jersey coming at him. Dallas has been blessed with two somewhat smallish backs who both understood when to bail on a play. That's a large part of it along with pure luck. That luck part applies more and more to all NFL players lasting 10 plus years going forward.

 

[PDay8810]

to the topic....it's subjective (No wrong answer), it's the truest team game there is with a field general (QB).
Pro's reside on both sides of the ball and weaknesses will be exploited.

 

[Clayton]

Great points....Parcells said NFL RB's have a bulls eye on their jersey.

I can't say impossible, but the biggest attribute might become knowing when to dive into the turf on certain plays. You're 100% right in it won't come from a back running upright and lowering his shoulder everytime he see's the opposite colored jersey coming at him. Dallas has been blessed with two somewhat smallish backs who both understood when to bail on a play. That's a large part of it along with pure luck. That luck part applies more and more to all NFL players lasting 10 plus years going forward.

The running back certainly matters. You could argue that the running back in theory is the 2nd most important position. Its just the least valuable because the most important attribute of a running back is the ability to hang on to the football and have a quick first step and any old RB can do that. The problem with running backs in the open field is that once they change direction, they leave themselves open to fumbling the ball and the great defenses always seem to get the ball poked out and more often than not those types of balls are recovered by the defense which is swarming to the area anyways. A routine running play is simple. RB covers the football from the point of impact and gains a couple of yards. A RB in the open field is a roll of the dice and the RB has no idea which direction a d player who runs a 4.4 is coming from to knock that football out.

 

[Breed]

The running back certainly matters. You could argue that the running back in theory is the 2nd most important position. Its just the least valuable because the most important attribute of a running back is the ability to hang on to the football and have a quick first step and any old RB can do that. The problem with running backs in the open field is that once they change direction, they leave themselves open to fumbling the ball and the great defenses always seem to get the ball poked out and more often than not those types of balls are recovered by the defense which is swarming to the area anyways. A routine running play is simple. RB covers the football from the point of impact and gains a couple of yards. A RB in the open field is a roll of the dice and the RB has no idea which direction a d player who runs a 4.4 is coming from to knock that football out.

I'm not feelin this post, at least not all of it. Granted I'll give you the main job of a RB is not to fumble and I'm OK with the first step thing as well. But all that RBs fumbling in the open field stuff.....hmmm. What RB or RBs are doing that on a regular? What defenses are causing that on a regular?

The person most likely to lead a team in fumbles is the QB. Most Fumbles and Fumbles Lost: 2015 NFL Season In 2015 3 RBs were in the top 20 in fumbling and 6 in the top 32. The rest were QBs. QBs are also most likely to recover their own fumbles and most likely to lose the most fumbles in a season. There have been exceptions and funky like penicillin things that happen, RG3 in 2012 had 12 fumbles and the Redskins recovered and scored TDs on as many of his fumbles, 2, as the opposition recovered and they didn't score TDs.

 

[cowboycolors]

MLB simply because he should know what everybodys responsibility is in any given defense and to make sure they at the proper position. like others said the QB of the defense. With the changing of the game the Nose in a 3-4 becomes the anchor but not the most important players those then become the OLB that get to the QB.

its a good discussion with many varied opinions

 

[Breed]

Great points....Parcells said NFL RB's have a bulls eye on their jersey.

I can't say impossible, but the biggest attribute might become knowing when to dive into the turf on certain plays. You're 100% right in it won't come from a back running upright and lowering his shoulder everytime he see's the opposite colored jersey coming at him. Dallas has been blessed with two somewhat smallish backs who both understood when to bail on a play. That's a large part of it along with pure luck. That luck part applies more and more to all NFL players lasting 10 plus years going forward.

I agree with knowing when to bail on a play being a big RB attribute. Another great RB attribute I think is being able to get lower than most defenders. Adrian Peterson is the exception to those rules and has to garner consideration for best running RB to play in the NFL imo. 9 years with 7 seasons of 1200+ yards or better and would be 8 if he didn't get laid up after 12 games in 2011 and already had 970 yards. He's never averaged under 4.4 ypc in a season except last year playing in only one game, knows how to get in the end zone with 97 rushing TDs and has never had less than 10 rush TDs in a season except last year. Plus he can still take it 80 yards to the house on any given play.

I think the Vikes fucked up big time by never working with AP far as blocking, blitz p/u, and pass catching. I'd want him on the field as much as possble.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

The running back certainly matters. You could argue that the running back in theory is the 2nd most important position. Its just the least valuable because the most important attribute of a running back is the ability to hang on to the football and have a quick first step and any old RB can do that. The problem with running backs in the open field is that once they change direction, they leave themselves open to fumbling the ball and the great defenses always seem to get the ball poked out and more often than not those types of balls are recovered by the defense which is swarming to the area anyways. A routine running play is simple. RB covers the football from the point of impact and gains a couple of yards. A RB in the open field is a roll of the dice and the RB has no idea which direction a d player who runs a 4.4 is coming from to knock that football out.

But RB turnovers in that situation are pretty minor from what I am seeing here.

Just breaking down 2015 here.

Breaking down the NFL's turnovers in 2015 for long plays into the open field (rushes over 10 yards) with a fumble/turnover by a running back.

I count 8 of them. Tevin Coleman with two (2 puts him as the 2nd most over the past 4 years in that situation of all RB's) , Lamar Miller, Lacy, C2J, Starks, Ellington, and Peterson.

The defenses were Chi, Cle, GNB, Min, Nor, NYJ, Oak, STL, and Balt. New Orleans had two for the most in the NFL.

2 more of those turnovers were by QB's.

So 1476 total carries in 2015 went over 10 yards, and 10 of them were turned over. A rate of one per 148 rushes of 10+ yards. Considering Tomlinson over the past 20 years leads the league with 340 carries of over 10 yards, 2 more fumbled turnovers over his career in that situation would put him near doubling the average turnover rate. 1 every 5 years or so for him. Vs. a QB doubling his turnover rate being something around 15 turnovers a year.



Based on that, and the league average 1 turnover every 4 years per team rate, I'd call that a minor issue.



I do agree holding onto the ball is something to be concerned about with the RB position, but if you don't have Peterson (who's good outweighs that part of it), the team will usually reduce that backs carry's in a hurry if he has 1-2 more than usual.

And the top defense overall at poking out the ball from a runner. New Orleans is... Indy and Tampa's D tie for 2nd with Carolina, so again, not really a trend of the best defenses doing that. 3 bottom 5-10 D's in the top 4.