What's the 2nd most important position in football after QB?

[Breed]

The multitude of MLB answers is this thread surprised me a bit. 43 MLBs need at least one DT capable of forcing a double team just as 34 ILBs need a NG capable of the same. But I think the answer varies depending on team.

 

[Clayton]

But RB turnovers in that situation are pretty minor from what I am seeing here.

Just breaking down 2015 here.

Breaking down the NFL's turnovers in 2015 for long plays into the open field (rushes over 10 yards) with a fumble/turnover by a running back.

10 yards..okay maybe I shouldnt have said open field. I was thinking around 3-5 yards past the LOS. Lots of examples where someone loses the ball. Chiefs lost if with Davis in the playoffs. Pead lost it with the Rams in week 1. Cunningham lost a couple with the Rams. Not many runs go 10 yards.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

10 yards..okay maybe I shouldnt have said open field. I was thinking around 3-5 yards past the LOS. Lots of examples where someone loses the ball. Chiefs lost if with Davis in the playoffs. Pead lost it with the Rams in week 1. Cunningham lost a couple with the Rams. Not many runs go 10 yards.

Ok and 1500 runs did go beyond 10 yards, so that was a pretty good sample size for the open field.

I agree ball security is an issue, but what backs fumble a lot more than others? Mostly high volume backs fumble more but rate is similar. They do change a game, but strip sacks cause more turnovers, QB's by far cause a LOT more turnovers.

To me that isn't a big problem. Sure occasionally you have a guy like Peterson or Tiki Barber who's rates are higher, but take Mike Tolbert. His fumble lost in the SB was huge. But he is the king of ball security by a back. That SB was his first fumble in 4 years. So while the play is a major one in that moment, it can happen by anyone.

To me, ball security by a QB is something that you can see pretty easily. Rodgers/Brady on the opposite spectrum of Eli/Cutler. But who would you consider a negative because of fumbling that would need replaced? Charles? AD? Lynch? Pead lost one and has a history of it, but if that's a problem for him, he doesn't get the ball anymore and gets cut and Gurley gets the ball.

I can see the importance, especially if you have a good defense to pair with the RB. But with the ability of teams to split carries and such and play RB's situationally (which you can't do with a lot of other positions), I think you can mitigate their importance.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And don't worry about the numbers part, I was just with you (it seems those guys do get the ball popped out when they aren't looking, I cringe every time I see a guy getting caught from behind), just wanted to see what I found out on it.

 

[Clayton]

And don't worry about the numbers part, I was just with you (it seems those guys do get the ball popped out when they aren't looking, I cringe every time I see a guy getting caught from behind), just wanted to see what I found out on it.

Its more about risk/reward when it comes to passing and running. When you pass, you average 7 yards a play with a decent QB and when you run you average 4 yards a play with a decent RB. RBs that fumble at all just seem like the worst...like a K missing an extra point. Its the safe option and when the safe option fails then why bother?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Its more about risk/reward when it comes to passing and running. When you pass, you average 7 yards a play with a decent QB and when you run you average 4 yards a play with a decent RB. RBs that fumble at all just seem like the worst...like a K missing an extra point. Its the safe option and when the safe option fails then why bother?

True, that play really hurts, but it is pretty random, not so much skill based. Like the extra point.. Where's Gostowski's value there? Really good (for a kicker) even if he misses one that is huge and changes a season. But the value from above average to average when fumbling for a RB to me isn't a big consideration I guess.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Like Jamaal Charles. Most fumbles in the NFL the past 4 years. How badly does that hurt his value to you as a RB? Does that put him below a Yeldon, Moreno, or Tolbert with great ball security?

It's great to have a Leveon Bell or Stephen Jackson who never turns it over AND is a great back... but I'd call having a stud bell cow back like Peterson, Charles, or Lynch more valuable than Andre Williams or Zac Stacy with sure hands.

 

[NinerSickness]

Gotta be DT.
Then 4-3 DE / 3-4 OLB.
Then LT.
Then CB IMO.

...After that, it's a bunch of positions with about equal value.

 

[Jim Rome is Flaming]

I agree that WR is pretty low on the list as well, but I believe in today's NFL, WR's are more important than RB's. Just my opinion.

I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but I think most people have accepted that RB isn't one of the most important positions. WRs are still massively overvalued IMO.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but I think most people have accepted that RB isn't one of the most important positions. WRs are still massively overvalued IMO.

I'd have to agree there overall... Not saying they are worthless, and I am sure they are worth it in jersey sales, highlights, fandom, etc... but cost vs. impact that is a statement I would tend to agree with.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

3 rules in the NFL.

Get a QB
Get to the other QB.
Protect your QB.

Protecting your QB can be partially done through some crafty play design or a good run game, or a QB who isn't a complete pansy and dives for a football.

Getting to the other QB though. That's rarely a team effort unless you blitz 24/7 in which case you'll eventually get burned. Generally you run a 4-3 (in which case get good DEs and a couple decent DTs that can push pocket a bit) or a 3-4 in which case get a good NT and good OLBs.

Good OTs can stop a good pass rusher but seems like a lot of good pass rushers are not even facing the blind side of the QB. They go against the RT and bull rush straight on.

 

[ducky]

Is RB the 2nd most important position in the league? Nope. But Adrian Peterson is still more important than most offensive players outside of the QB position.

Is MLB the 2nd most important position in the league? Nope. But Keuchly is still one of the top 10 most important defensive players in the league.

Is safety the 2nd most important position in the league? Nope. But Earl Thomas is still one of the most important defensive players in the league.

It's the one thing that is important to remember. Some positions might not be as important as others....but great players at less important positions are still as impactful as great players at impact positions.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

3 rules in the NFL.

Get a QB
Get to the other QB.
Protect your QB.

Protecting your QB can be partially done through some crafty play design or a good run game, or a QB who isn't a complete pansy and dives for a football.

Getting to the other QB though. That's rarely a team effort unless you blitz 24/7 in which case you'll eventually get burned. Generally you run a 4-3 (in which case get good DEs and a couple decent DTs that can push pocket a bit) or a 3-4 in which case get a good NT and good OLBs.

Good OTs can stop a good pass rusher but seems like a lot of good pass rushers are not even facing the blind side of the QB. They go against the RT and bull rush straight on.

Agree, but the one thing is rushing at the QB, he has more of a chance to see the pass rush heading his way. Also with a right handed QB, usually your tight end lines up on the right side of the line (right handed QB plant foot is right foot, facing the right side of the field, especially short routes, right tends to be the predominant location). Take Tony Gonzalez. For his career, 408 targets to the right, 279 to the left. Not an always thing, but a trend....

So more of the time, you can call your TE to help out in pass protection when he's lined up to the right side where the left tackle is more on an island, and more of a chance your QB can see the pressure coming from that side. That's why teams tend to be smaller on the left side of the line, left guard a bit quicker than your right guard, left tackle a bit quicker than your right tackle. And the defense tends to play the same way.

Also what some teams take advantage of is audibling to runs when they see a smaller pass rusher (right end) lined up there instead of the strong side end. Of course when you have a guy like Watt or Ansah or Dunlap, he's 280+ lbs either way. But that's what makes a guy like Strahan so amazing is he did most of his work while still standing up to the stronger right tackles/TE's against the run, and rushing the QB in his line of sight.

Of course we are seeing more teams lining up TE's all over, more rushers moving around (3-4 helps here too), more pistol, more pre-snap shifts, that I think do help mitigate the talent level of a left tackle as you point out.

And you see that change coming with defenses too. Sam linebackers were the guys lined up over that strong side. They did all the hard work with none of the flash. Fought the TE in the run game head on blocked, dropped to cover the TE. The weakside LB got the edge rush, or chased the play down from behind unblocked. That weak side you put the better athlete... LT, Brooks, Briggs, vs. Banks, Quarles, or Roach on the other side. So your pro bowl usually ends up with a bunch of left tackles, right ends, and right outside linebackers.

But yes, I think both sides are evening that out a bit. And doesn't hurt when you have Ware and Von to pick from...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Agree, but the one thing is rushing at the QB, he has more of a chance to see the pass rush heading his way. Also with a right handed QB, usually your tight end lines up on the right side of the line (right handed QB plant foot is right foot, facing the right side of the field, especially short routes, right tends to be the predominant location). Take Tony Gonzalez. For his career, 408 targets to the right, 279 to the left. Not an always thing, but a trend....

So more of the time, you can call your TE to help out in pass protection when he's lined up to the right side where the left tackle is more on an island, and more of a chance your QB can see the pressure coming from that side. That's why teams tend to be smaller on the left side of the line, left guard a bit quicker than your right guard, left tackle a bit quicker than your right tackle. And the defense tends to play the same way.

Also what some teams take advantage of is audibling to runs when they see a smaller pass rusher (right end) lined up there instead of the strong side end. Of course when you have a guy like Watt or Ansah or Dunlap, he's 280+ lbs either way. But that's what makes a guy like Strahan so amazing is he did most of his work while still standing up to the stronger right tackles/TE's against the run, and rushing the QB in his line of sight.

Of course we are seeing more teams lining up TE's all over, more rushers moving around (3-4 helps here too), more pistol, more pre-snap shifts, that I think do help mitigate the talent level of a left tackle as you point out.

And you see that change coming with defenses too. Sam linebackers were the guys lined up over that strong side. They did all the hard work with none of the flash. Fought the TE in the run game head on blocked, dropped to cover the TE. The weakside LB got the edge rush, or chased the play down from behind unblocked. That weak side you put the better athlete... LT, Brooks, Briggs, vs. Banks, Quarles, or Roach on the other side. So your pro bowl usually ends up with a bunch of left tackles, right ends, and right outside linebackers.

But yes, I think both sides are evening that out a bit. And doesn't hurt when you have Ware and Von to pick from...

Yah absolutely. I just see some teams really getting punished on the right side with no TE help. Even though the QB will see the rusher coming... JJ Watt, Miller, Bennett, etc. just man handled some RTs this season. And no surprise all 3 of those players were on the 1-3 top defenses. And unless you just have a punishing run, you can't keep a TE/RB in to block EVERY time. You're likely still getting some pressure while losing an offensive weapon (potentially 2 with the QB) entirely.

A good LT is nothing to scoff at though.... agree with you that it's a pretty narrow margin. I still think having the better pass rusher is more valuable though. You can get a bit more TE/RB help if you have a good but not AMAZING OT... but an amazing DE can just take apart an offense so heavily.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

There really isn't any debate in this unless we all think we are smarter than the GM's in this league. Look at how teams draft. MLB's RARELY go in the top 10. Centers NEVER go in the top 10.

I'm stunned people are voting MLB when about 5 MLB have been drafted in the top 10 over the last few DECADES. If it was the 2nd most important position behind QB they'd be going #1 in the draft and 5 would be picked in the top 10 every year.

Look at the drafts EVER YEAR ITS

#1 QB
#2 LT
#3 4-3 DE/3-4 OLB
#4 CB

End of thread...

Not one MLB will go in the top 15 this year and not 1 Center will go in the first two rounds.
The top 10 picks will all be QB's, LT's, DE/OLB and CB's

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

And to follow this up with you MLB voters...

The first MLB in the 2015 draft went 43rd. Thats not indicative of the 2nd most important position to GMs.

The first MLB drafted in 2014 went in the 3rd round at pick 73

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

NFL.com article ranking the positions by importance... Ranking each position's importance, from quarterback to returner

1. QB
2. RDE/ROLB
3. LT
4. CB #1
5. WR #1
6. DT
7. RB
8. LDE/LOLB
9. MLB
10 TE