What do the RAIDERS need

[Fountain City Blues]

So did you guys read that?? And if so, what do you think about it??

I would generally say I agree with it. The Wolf tree is really looking like the next big thing as of right now when it comes to FO's. I suspect these guys will be around for a long time if their early success is of any indication. We'll see if McCloughan's alcohol problem resurfaces, but his GM prowess looks pretty good in general. The funny thing about all of this regarding McKenzie is Ron Wolf got his tutelage under Al Davis, so it has come full circle in some ways, hasn't it?

As for FA, I don't think there's any reason to not believe the Packers, Seahawks, Raiders, 'Skins, and Chiefs will generally be bidding over the same players be it in the draft or FA. Same core philosophy will ensure that much.

 

[cdumler7]

What is not true?? That info i got is at Silver and Black Pride, its on his front page..

Well I have been on PFF and it is not true. Sean Smith ranked 22nd and Amerson 24th. From what I can tell by your premises of being in the top-16 you have Arizona with Mathieu being 2nd and Peterson being 15th, Cincinnati with Adam Jones being 5th and Leon Hall being 14th, and that is it. Buffalo missed by one place with Ronald Darby being tied for 5th and Gilmore being 17th.

Then again PFF has articles that counter each other on the rankings (seems weird for them to counter themselves). So maybe it depends which part of PFF you are looking at.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I would generally say I agree with it. The Wolf tree is really looking like the next big thing as of right now when it comes to FO's. I suspect these guys will be around for a long time if their early success is of any indication. We'll see if McCloughan's alcohol problem resurfaces, but his GM prowess looks pretty good in general. The funny thing about all of this regarding McKenzie is Ron Wolf got his tutelage under Al Davis, so it has come full circle in some ways, hasn't it?

As for FA, I don't think there's any reason to not believe the Packers, Seahawks, Raiders, 'Skins, and Chiefs will generally be bidding over the same players be it in the draft or FA. Same core philosophy will ensure that much.

Moose, i was going to say that tree comes from Al Davis, but i didn't want to get into an argument over a great man that no longer is with us.. And i agree with the rest of your post.. That tree is the next great FO's..
Heck, every team you just mentioned will make noise this year, with pretty much the same type of players!!

This player right here will go to one of these same teams.. Eli Apple.. 6-2 200 4.4 Rangy, and has shutdown top WRs and a beast in the run game.. If we pass, i look for one of these teams or the Steelers to pick him up..
I would hate to see Apple and Peters coached up by Sutton.. That was my pick at 14, but now we have Smith, so im not to sure now..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Well I have been on PFF and it is not true. Sean Smith ranked 22nd and Amerson 24th. From what I can tell by your premises of being in the top-16 you have Arizona with Mathieu being 2nd and Peterson being 15th, Cincinnati with Adam Jones being 5th and Leon Hall being 14th, and that is it. Buffalo missed by one place with Ronald Darby being tied for 5th and Gilmore being 17th.

Then again PFF has articles that counter each other on the rankings (seems weird for them to counter themselves). So maybe it depends which part of PFF you are looking at.

cd, i was just posting what they said.. Im not sure how they grade players on that site.. But as you read, theuuy have the Bolts, Cards, Bills and us as the only teams.. So are they wrong?? And why are they wrong?? And is that site a good site for info??

 

[cdumler7]

cd, i was just posting what they said.. Im not sure how they grade players on that site.. But as you read, theuuy have the Bolts, Cards, Bills and us as the only teams.. So are they wrong?? And why are they wrong?? And is that site a good site for info??

Essentially they grade from 1 person watching a game and focusing on one player and grading them on every individual play giving them a 1 0 or -1 or sometimes just a .5 point either way on any given play. They then add or subtract all the points for every play and come up with a grade for that player. It is a decent grading system but it is still up to one person to have made a decision. They also have no clue what type of play was being run or what was the responsibility of the player they are grading every time so while it is a decent system it is very flawed as well. I remember just this last week listening to Mark Schlereth talk about it on Bronco radio and he called it a complete joke and that fans need to stop using it as any kind of source on the game because it was started by some fans of the game who have no clue what they are looking at. So take anything they put out with a grain of salt.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Essentially they grade from 1 person watching a game and focusing on one player and grading them on every individual play giving them a 1 0 or -1 or sometimes just a .5 point either way on any given play. They then add or subtract all the points for every play and come up with a grade for that player. It is a decent grading system but it is still up to one person to have made a decision. They also have no clue what type of play was being run or what was the responsibility of the player they are grading every time so while it is a decent system it is very flawed as well. I remember just this last week listening to Mark Schlereth talk about it on Bronco radio and he called it a complete joke and that fans need to stop using it as any kind of source on the game because it was started by some fans of the game who have no clue what they are looking at. So take anything they put out with a grain of salt.

Hmmmmm.. So PFF no longer matters then right CD?? So I assume you will never use them anymore when discussing players.. Gotcha..

 

[cdumler7]

Hmmmmm.. So PFF no longer matters then right CD?? So I assume you will never use them anymore when discussing players.. Gotcha..

Wow you really read what I said wrong. I meant it has value but isn't the end all be all. To me if actual players of the position that know what is going on for a play would be a better judge. Like for me I love listening every day to Mark Schlereth talk about the OL and trust his judgment much more than PFF.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Wow you really read what I said wrong. I meant it has value but isn't the end all be all. To me if actual players of the position that know what is going on for a play would be a better judge. Like for me I love listening every day to Mark Schlereth talk about the OL and trust his judgment much more than PFF.

Does PFF have cred?? A simple yes or no will do.. Thank you..

 

[cdumler7]

Does PFF have cred?? A simple yes or no will do.. Thank you..

It isn't that simple though. They have some but I do think there are better things out there but it is useful

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Does PFF have cred?? A simple yes or no will do.. Thank you..

They watch each and every play, so they have a lot of respect for that reason alone. It doesn't take very long to find disagreement with their grading scales.

I myself tend to prefer football outsiders for my info, or if nothing else, my eyes.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

It isn't that simple though. They have some but I do think there are better things out there but it is useful

But it is that simple CD.. Check it out, since most people use PFF, as I do here and there I would say yes they do have Cred..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

They watch each and every play, so they have a lot of respect for that reason alone. It doesn't take very long to find disagreement with their grading scales.

I myself tend to prefer football outsiders for my info, or if nothing else, my eyes.

Thank you Moose.. And like you said, trust the eyes. I do.. For exapmle.. Smith is a good player, and I don't need PFF or whoever to tell me otherwise..

 

[cdumler7]

But it is that simple CD.. Check it out, since most people use PFF, as I do here and there I would say yes they do have Cred..

So I say the same thing as there is a moose and you don't like what I say but support what he says? Sometimes I think you just like to push my buttons.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So I say the same thing as there is a moose and you don't like what I say but support what he says? Sometimes I think you just like to push my buttons.

CD, you guys didn't really say the same thing.. You went on to say, that dude on the radio said not to listen to them, and take it with a grain of salt.. And you have used PFF in some our bebates as well.. So now suddenly it really has no cred.. So it just made me wonder.. And I think we both push buttons, that's what these boards are for.. It makes it just that much better..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So Penn is coming back to Oak eh?? Man, if that goes down the RAIDERS are going to have a Beastly OL!!
Dang!!

 

[stillmatic32]

So Penn is coming back to Oak eh?? Man, if that goes down the RAIDERS are going to have a Beastly OL!!
Dang!!

I like it. Can't find the terms of the deal. Hopefully can still add a secondary piece or two and then draft best player available, hopefully on D.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I like it. Can't find the terms of the deal. Hopefully can still add a secondary piece or two and then draft best player available, hopefully on D.

I think that deal is like 2/14 or something like that.. Man, talk about a boost for our OL!! Imagine if we add either Elliot or Henry to share the rock with Murray, behind that OL?? Smh!! Tice be like, we going to pound the rock stop us if you can..

We still in the market for secondary players, still a few left that would make an impact, look for one of them to sign soon enough.. Then the draft baby.. And it's loaded on the D side of the ball.. Any kind of player we want..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So i read a tweet from the no Cred PFF.. RAIDERS only team with ALL 5 OL players with a 79 grade or higher..
No other team has 3.. So PFF says..

 

[cdumler7]

CD, you guys didn't really say the same thing.. You went on to say, that dude on the radio said not to listen to them, and take it with a grain of salt.. And you have used PFF in some our bebates as well.. So now suddenly it really has no cred.. So it just made me wonder.. And I think we both push buttons, that's what these boards are for.. It makes it just that much better..

I have used them in the past. The more I get to know about them though the less I actually listen to what they have to say. Actual players think it is a good try but it misses so much of the little things of the game. They just don't show they understand what is actually happening on any given play and the responsibility of that player. A great example would be on the OL of a guy looking like he completely whiffed on a block when in reality the OL was told to block to the right and leave that one guy free and the QB has to realize his responsibility of moving the pocket to the right. The QB is sacked and the OL is blamed when in reality the QB is the one that messed up what was happening. They would give a negative grade to the LT in that situation when they did nothing wrong. So again it has value just not the end all be all of stats.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

I have used them in the past. The more I get to know about them though the less I actually listen to what they have to say. Actual players think it is a good try but it misses so much of the little things of the game. They just don't show they understand what is actually happening on any given play and the responsibility of that player. A great example would be on the OL of a guy looking like he completely whiffed on a block when in reality the OL was told to block to the right and leave that one guy free and the QB has to realize his responsibility of moving the pocket to the right. The QB is sacked and the OL is blamed when in reality the QB is the one that messed up what was happening. They would give a negative grade to the LT in that situation when they did nothing wrong. So again it has value just not the end all be all of stats.

I just find it funny how you suddenly have changed your tune on PFF.. Hmmm, No biggie though.. They do have Cred though.. So i take it now, that you will never bring them up in a debate again, whether that debate be with me or others.. That's a big lot you casting for a football junkie like myself..