What do the RAIDERS need

[idahoraiderfan33]

cd, i don't have a lot of free time this morning, but i do have time for a pass through debate..

I notice cd that your a stat guy, and they mean everything for you, but stats don't always tell the whole truth..
I will tell ya matters, points and wins.. See i would rather Carr have those Weak stats, but burning Phillips D at the right time to get those points and more importantly the WIN!! What good is 300Y 2TDs if you lose??
Second year QB went into D

My bad.. Second year QB Carr went into Denver's MileHigh and got the WIN, that is what matters not the stats..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Just a quick dig

Bruce Irvin 2015 stats

36 Tackles, 5.5 sacks, 2 PD, 1 FF on 712 snaps

Shaq Barrett for the Broncos 2015 stats

50 Tackles, 5.5 sacks, 4 PD, 4 FF on 497 snaps

Bruce Irvin making $12.5 million this upcoming season (Cap Hit wise)

Shaq Barrett making $525,000 this upcoming season. So better stats at 1/24th of the cost. And that is our back up not even a starter.

Again a classic case of stats not telling the whole truth.. Cmon cd you are better than that..
Irvin > Barrett

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Idaho you asked why I think the Broncos defense could stay the same or even be better. It is because we have back ups on our team just like that that would be a starter on almost every other team in the league. That kid and Shane Ray are entering year 2 as pass rushers for the Broncos. More prepared, in better shape, and have had a year to learn from 2 potential HOF pass rushers in Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware. The fact that our pass rush could be even better this year is why I think our defense could show up just as much as last year.

You already said it won't play at the same level as last year, and i agree with you on that.. They won't!!
Again they will be good just not as good.. Im afraid this all comes back to how good Sanchez plays for you guys, or even the rookie Lynch.. Why don't you want to talk about QB play for you guys?? As you know QB is the most important play on a team.. Just ask any GM..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

You already said it won't play at the same level as last year, and i agree with you on that.. They won't!!
Again they will be good just not as good.. Im afraid this all comes back to how good Sanchez plays for you guys, or even the rookie Lynch.. Why don't you want to talk about QB play for you guys?? As you know QB is the most important play on a team.. Just ask any GM..

Or do you think the QB is now overrated cd??

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Again a classic case of stats not telling the whole truth.. Cmon cd you are better than that..
Irvin > Barrett

What was that crazy stat you tried to push there for a bit, about Hoyer?? He had a better passer rating or some sheet like?? Well, Hoyer is looking for work i think, while Carr and the other young QBs are considered franchise cornerstone players for the teams they play for.. Stat tell part of a story, but NEVER the whole story..
PFFs numbers love the RAIDERS, but you say take them with a grain of salt.. So why do your numbers mean something buy mine we take with a grain of salt??

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

cd do you think im saying you guys are going to stink as a whole, is that what you think??
Im not saying that about you guys or KC!! Heck i even give the Bolts some respect, cuz they have Rivers and loaded up in FA and had a solid draft..
I have said many times, all 4 teams have a chance this year.. My argument is we will WIN the AFCW not that you guys will stink.. Now i do think you guys took a step back while the RAIDERS and the Bolts took a step forward..

Last year my main argument was no sweep and i was right.. This year im going ALL IN!! We win the West!!
Can i be wrong?? Of course i can, look at who we play.. Denver, KC and the Bolts!! But im still going all in cuz i believe we will win the AFCW!!
Do you believe you will WIN the AFCW?? If so than say it!! Same goes for KC and Bolt fan!! Go on record and say it.. Fear nothing!!

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

cd do you think im saying you guys are going to stink as a whole, is that what you think??
Im not saying that about you guys or KC!! Heck i even give the Bolts some respect, cuz they have Rivers and loaded up in FA and had a solid draft..
I have said many times, all 4 teams have a chance this year.. My argument is we will WIN the AFCW not that you guys will stink.. Now i do think you guys took a step back while the RAIDERS and the Bolts took a step forward..

Last year my main argument was no sweep and i was right.. This year im going ALL IN!! We win the West!!
Can i be wrong?? Of course i can, look at who we play.. Denver, KC and the Bolts!! But im still going all in cuz i believe we will win the AFCW!!
Do you believe you will WIN the AFCW?? If so than say it!! Same goes for KC and Bolt fan!! Go on record and say it.. Fear nothing!!

Gotta roll..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Oh one more thing?? This is what i love about Hammers site.. If you talk the talk, walk the walk baby.. If you want to run with the BigDawgs that is..

 

[cdumler7]

Hey Idaho don't have much time either. Yes I do think the Broncos will win the AFC West again. They have shown they have incredible staying power even when the AFC West has actually been one of the toughest since they have gone on their run. Yes we have dominated the West but we have also had 2 different seasons where 3 teams had winning records. Heck we had 3 teams in the division make the playoffs one year so just shows the power the AFC West has had and yet the Broncos still continue to come out on top year after year. I put that on incredible drafting and incredible FO work (top-3 in the NFL).

As for the stats I use yes I use them but they are to add to what I see with my eyes. I have watched Bruce Irvin play and as I have told you in the past I do think he was the worst off season move you guys made. Obviously you disagree but I look not only at his stats but what I see in the games and just don't see a game changing player but that is what you are paying him as. If he was on the Broncos he would be our 5th best pass rusher on day 1. Our back ups in limited snaps put up just as many stats and actually put up greater game changing stats by showing the Forced Fumbles. I mean our back up forced as many fumbles in one season off the bench as that of Irvin in 4 years in the league.

 

[cdumler7]

I'll have to talk about the QB position later. I will just say yes I do think the QB position is important. I don't think it is quite as important as some make it out to be at times though. I would rather have an all around good team at all 3 phases than that of an elite QB but subpar team around them. To me I hate when somebody says "such and such QB beat this team." No the team beat another team. Such as the Raiders win against the Broncos. To me the offense contributed 7 points. The defense contributed another 2 points with the safety. And then Special teams added another touchdown with recovering a fumble near the goal line. So that is all 3 units contributing to the win not just Carr beating the Broncos. In fact Carr by all standards of QB play had a very below average game. I mean below 50% completion percentage. Not great yards or yards per attempt. It would be a game I bet if you asked him he would say he really struggled but the team still found a way to win.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Thanks for going on record CD.. That's how BigDawgs roll, woof woof!! And this is a post I will reply too, when I get time.. Hey KC and Bolt fan?? You want to be on the record with CD and I?? If not cool..

 

[cdumler7]

Alright a little more time this morning to answer some of your questions...

So QB. Like I said I think they get too much credit and also too much blame. Manning is the perfect example. There have been playoff games where he did fine but the rest of the team around him did terrible and the team lost. So people say "Well Manning is a choker in the playoffs." No to me I would say the Colts are a choker in the playoffs.

At the same time we won the Super Bowl this year with Manning going 13 of 23 for only 141 yards. He had 0 touchdowns, 1 interception, and 1 fumble. Throw in the team went a Super Bowl worst 1 of 14 on 3rd down. Yet we still won the game and I keep hearing people say Manning won the Super Bowl. While yes that is technically true it really should be the Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl.

So that is why I say they get too much credit when things are good and too much blame when things go bad. Yes a QB has the ability to impact the game the most of any position on the field but that doesn't mean they deserve all the blame or credit if the team wins. Now I will say yes Manning has went out and had a ridiculous impact on games for the Broncos. such as his 7 touchdown game back in 2013. He was a huge reason we won that game. I can also look at our game against the Chiefs where he had 4 1st half interceptions all in Bronco territory and say he was a big time reason we lost that game. I wouldn't give him all the credit in either situation though. That is why I hate when you say Carr beat the Broncos. No the Raiders with plays by the offense, defense, and special teams beat the Broncos.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Hey Idaho don't have much time either. Yes I do think the Broncos will win the AFC West again. They have shown they have incredible staying power even when the AFC West has actually been one of the toughest since they have gone on their run. Yes we have dominated the West but we have also had 2 different seasons where 3 teams had winning records. Heck we had 3 teams in the division make the playoffs one year so just shows the power the AFC West has had and yet the Broncos still continue to come out on top year after year. I put that on incredible drafting and incredible FO work (top-3 in the NFL).

As for the stats I use yes I use them but they are to add to what I see with my eyes. I have watched Bruce Irvin play and as I have told you in the past I do think he was the worst off season move you guys made. Obviously you disagree but I look not only at his stats but what I see in the games and just don't see a game changing player but that is what you are paying him as. If he was on the Broncos he would be our 5th best pass rusher on day 1. Our back ups in limited snaps put up just as many stats and actually put up greater game changing stats by showing the Forced Fumbles. I mean our back up forced as many fumbles in one season off the bench as that of Irvin in 4 years in the league.

I would not say the AFCW was at it's strongest cd, far from it.. In fact it was at it's weakest..
We were rebuilding for most of those years for crying out loud.. The Bolts suddenly got old as well as took a hit in FA with some poor drafts mixed in there as well.. Those were not the same peak Bolts of Rivers, LT and a prime Gates.. And KC had the number 1 pick in there as well.. It was a weak division.. All the while, you guys added a still in his prime PM who brought with him GREAT FAs and mixing it with a pretty solid team..

Now we have the rebuilt RAIDERS the playoff Chiefs who both split with you guys last year, and then the suddenly do it right Bolts who still have Rivers.. It will NOT be easy winning it this time around cd..
We will test that staying power as you say.. Cuz the RAIDERS are built for just that, staying power!!

 

[cdumler7]

I would not say the AFCW was at it's strongest cd, far from it.. In fact it was at it's weakest..
We were rebuilding for most of those years for crying out loud.. The Bolts suddenly got old as well as took a hit in FA with some poor drafts mixed in there as well.. Those were not the same peak Bolts of Rivers, LT and a prime Gates.. And KC had the number 1 pick in there as well.. It was a weak division.. All the while, you guys added a still in his prime PM who brought with him GREAT FAs and mixing it with a pretty solid team..

Now we have the rebuilt RAIDERS the playoff Chiefs who both split with you guys last year, and then the suddenly do it right Bolts who still have Rivers.. It will NOT be easy winning it this time around cd..
We will test that staying power as you say.. Cuz the RAIDERS are built for just that, staying power!!

So I guess we should ignore the fact that 3 of the 5 years since Elway came to town the AFC West has had at least 2 playoff teams with one of those years having 3 playoff teams? Just because your team has stunk it up during that time doesn't mean the rest of the AFC West has been down. Yes the Chiefs had the one terrible year but rebounded when they signed Alex Smith to become a team that has not had a losing season since. The Chargers until this last year were in playoff contention clear up to the final week of the season. So really the Raiders are the only team that hasn't been competitive.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Alright a little more time this morning to answer some of your questions...

So QB. Like I said I think they get too much credit and also too much blame. Manning is the perfect example. There have been playoff games where he did fine but the rest of the team around him did terrible and the team lost. So people say "Well Manning is a choker in the playoffs." No to me I would say the Colts are a choker in the playoffs.

At the same time we won the Super Bowl this year with Manning going 13 of 23 for only 141 yards. He had 0 touchdowns, 1 interception, and 1 fumble. Throw in the team went a Super Bowl worst 1 of 14 on 3rd down. Yet we still won the game and I keep hearing people say Manning won the Super Bowl. While yes that is technically true it really should be the Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl.

So that is why I say they get too much credit when things are good and too much blame when things go bad. Yes a QB has the ability to impact the game the most of any position on the field but that doesn't mean they deserve all the blame or credit if the team wins. Now I will say yes Manning has went out and had a ridiculous impact on games for the Broncos. such as his 7 touchdown game back in 2013. He was a huge reason we won that game. I can also look at our game against the Chiefs where he had 4 1st half interceptions all in Bronco territory and say he was a big time reason we lost that game. I wouldn't give him all the credit in either situation though. That is why I hate when you say Carr beat the Broncos. No the Raiders with plays by the offense, defense, and special teams beat the Broncos.

cd, i will not get drawn into a debate over how important a QB is to a team.. NOBODY in the football world agrees with that.. You have Sanchez now, so i understand why you are pushing the QB to the back burner.. Funny you never did that when PM was breaking records for you guys..

 

[cdumler7]

cd, i will not get drawn into a debate over how important a QB is to a team.. NOBODY in the football world agrees with that.. You have Sanchez now, so i understand why you are pushing the QB to the back burner.. Funny you never did that when PM was breaking records for you guys..

See this is where you are misreading what I am saying. I said the QB is still the most important player on the team as they have the ability to impact the game the most of any player. At the same time because this is such a team sport they are still just a part of the equation not the entire equation. So saying Carr beat the Broncos when your defense and Special Teams were huge players in why you guys won the game to me is discrediting to the team. Heck heard this during the Tebow years that he was why the Broncos were winning. No how about the defense held teams to low points week in and week out and while Tebow would maybe contribute a couple of great plays here and there he was a part of the equation not the entire equation.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

So I guess we should ignore the fact that 3 of the 5 years since Elway came to town the AFC West has had at least 2 playoff teams with one of those years having 3 playoff teams? Just because your team has stunk it up during that time doesn't mean the rest of the AFC West has been down. Yes the Chiefs had the one terrible year but rebounded when they signed Alex Smith to become a team that has not had a losing season since. The Chargers until this last year were in playoff contention clear up to the final week of the season. So really the Raiders are the only team that hasn't been competitive.

We were rebuilding cd, and i mean going back to formula rebuild, so yeah it stunk!! But it don't no more!!
In fact it has one of the better collection of young talent in the league..
Again cd, you got all that when the division was at it's weakest.. No biggie though, you still won it and that's all that matter THEN.. But this is now, and we all are on even ground..

 

[cdumler7]

We were rebuilding cd, and i mean going back to formula rebuild, so yeah it stunk!! But it don't no more!!
In fact it has one of the better collection of young talent in the league..
Again cd, you got all that when the division was at it's weakest.. No biggie though, you still won it and that's all that matter THEN.. But this is now, and we all are on even ground..

Again you are looking at this from a Raiders perspective where your team was one of the worst in the entire league with Cleveland. The rest of the division wasn't down like you keep saying. Each team had a down year like the Broncos 6 years ago, the Chargers this past year, and the Chiefs for one year. Otherwise every team in the division has pretty much been 8-8 or higher every single season. Not many divisions can boast that happening.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

See this is where you are misreading what I am saying. I said the QB is still the most important player on the team as they have the ability to impact the game the most of any player. At the same time because this is such a team sport they are still just a part of the equation not the entire equation. So saying Carr beat the Broncos when your defense and Special Teams were huge players in why you guys won the game to me is discrediting to the team. Heck heard this during the Tebow years that he was why the Broncos were winning. No how about the defense held teams to low points week in and week out and while Tebow would maybe contribute a couple of great plays here and there he was a part of the equation not the entire equation.

I do understand what you are saying cd i do.. The QB is the most important and highest paid player on the team, assuming you have a good one..

This why i keep saying cd that it all comes down to Sanchez or the rookie as to how good your team will be, cuz they are the MOST important players on your team cd.. And yet you don't want to face that..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Again you are looking at this from a Raiders perspective where your team was one of the worst in the entire league with Cleveland. The rest of the division wasn't down like you keep saying. Each team had a down year like the Broncos 6 years ago, the Chargers this past year, and the Chiefs for one year. Otherwise every team in the division has pretty much been 8-8 or higher every single season. Not many divisions can boast that happening.

You are losing cred real fast cd, and just starting to troll by saying that.. Well i will not scoop to that level, cuz that's not how i roll..