Wentz?

[Stymietee]

Wentz will get you nine wins max

If they are extremely, extremely, extremely lucky. Like N.Y. Giants being offsides lucky, or Philly pulling Hurts in order to preserve their draft status lucky will they get to nine with Wentz. 7-10 or 8-9 is the comfort zone with this guy!

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Why??

What exempts Rivera from getting dismissed?

The State of the franchises right now or the perception of the franchise

 

[chillerdab]

Washington had a better oline than than the colts did with a worse running game.

Scary Terry is a significantly better wr than Michael Pittman is in Indy, so that would help wentz.

The te and secondary weapons are about the same.

Plus the Commanders are playing a third place schedule with six games against the nfc least.

Not sure how nine wins would happen if the Commanders were “extremely x3 lucky.”

I dont like Wentz though, personally. Too slow to throw the ball, and gigantic red flag if his qb coach who traded for him is quick to get rid of him after one year. Especially with Johnathan Taylor toting the rock.

 

[skinz2winz]

If they are extremely, extremely, extremely lucky. Like N.Y. Giants being offsides lucky, or Philly pulling Hurts in order to preserve their draft status lucky will they get to nine with Wentz. 7-10 or 8-9 is the comfort zone with this guy!

Wentz is not an improvement but a reach. Let's focus on improving the starting QB position as RR has mentioned on multiple occasions this off season. What is an improvement over what RR has had to date here in Washington and, is Wentz a likely improvement to that? The simple and correct answer is no so why entertain it?

There are a few QB's out there who I feel would give us an upgrade from what we recently had with Watson being one of them. Unfortunately he won't be in DC due to his current situation. Absolutely the wrong PR move by Rivera and he knows it. He just went all COMMANDO in all of us so no way does he "halt" the culture move to bring in Watson. We are not attractive enough for the Rodgers, Wilson types at this point in their respective careers. The next reasonable would be Jimmy G as he fits a Turner style (short to intermediate) offense but after watching this years playoff performances, why would you want a guy who is being cast off for a 2nd year player who has limited NFL snaps? Red flag, Pass! As much as RR talks about finding the much needed QB leader, he knows that he and the Organization are in a tough predicament due to current climates in DC surrounding Snyder and quite frankly, who would want to come here right now? It's not a desired destination as we all know.

That takes us to this point where we must make up our minds about what RR would consider an upgrade at the position given the restrictive numbers game of which to choose from. Jameis Winston pops up frequently however he may be tied to NO and does his limited mobility limit his attractiveness in FA? I for one don't believe Jameis is what RR is looking for as an upgrade. Trubisky has been mentioned often. A strong arm guy who just never really put it together in Chicago and likely drafted ahead of where he went in a lack luster 2017 draft class behind Watson & Mahomes. What I think RR will be after is a Mariota type, with a vet presence, NFL arm and legs to create off script or design runs for. He will likely come at a favorable price and he makes this move prior to the draft due to having that QB in place to lead the franchise who "wants to move forward" in its culture phase, and there is no guarantee the next QB is there at pick #11 and there is no gurantee any QB in this draft warrants the 11th pick according to Ron. If Pickett is there then maybe he brings him in behind his vet starter really liking his QB room with TH as his #3. I believe he ultimately brings in this guy thus making our QB room Mariota, Pickett (#11) and TH. If Pickett unavailable, maybe LB Dean from GA.

Marcus Mariota​

PFF Free Agency Rank: 60
2021 Snaps: 24
2021 PFF grade: 58.2 (N/A)

For years, the primary goal of quarterbacks in Mariota’s position was to find a team desperate enough for a starter to sign them to an inflated deal in free agency that they’d inevitably regret a year later. While that’s still a goal, there are more potential avenues for players with Mariota’s skill set. With two-quarterback systems cropping up around the NFL, Mariota could attempt to leverage New Orleans Saints weapon Taysom Hill’s recent four-year, $40 million extension with massive upside. Mariota is an infinitely superior passer of the football, and while he’s had a handful of injuries the past few years, he’s still just 28 years old.

Projected contract: 1 yrs — $8m avg/yr

 

[Stymietee]

The State of the franchises right now or the perception of the franchise

Considering the state of the franchise AND perception of it nationwide, you have to ask how it got that way and who was uncaring as it plummeted towards its current state and negative perception. Answer that and I'll bet that the conclusion you come to is, that it doesn't bother or matter to the current owner.

All ownership is not equal, just as long as they continue to make money, somebody's franchise has to be the best, someone else' the worse, and none of that matters. I honestly believe that Dan Snyder wants to be a winner, but for the entirety of his life, he has no experience in being such a thing.

 

[kbso83432]

Wentz is not an improvement but a reach. Let's focus on improving the starting QB position as RR has mentioned on multiple occasions this off season. What is an improvement over what RR has had to date here in Washington and, is Wentz a likely improvement to that? The simple and correct answer is no so why entertain it?

There are a few QB's out there who I feel would give us an upgrade from what we recently had with Watson being one of them. Unfortunately he won't be in DC due to his current situation. Absolutely the wrong PR move by Rivera and he knows it. He just went all COMMANDO in all of us so no way does he "halt" the culture move to bring in Watson. We are not attractive enough for the Rodgers, Wilson types at this point in their respective careers. The next reasonable would be Jimmy G as he fits a Turner style (short to intermediate) offense but after watching this years playoff performances, why would you want a guy who is being cast off for a 2nd year player who has limited NFL snaps? Red flag, Pass! As much as RR talks about finding the much needed QB leader, he knows that he and the Organization are in a tough predicament due to current climates in DC surrounding Snyder and quite frankly, who would want to come here right now? It's not a desired destination as we all know.

That takes us to this point where we must make up our minds about what RR would consider an upgrade at the position given the restrictive numbers game of which to choose from. Jameis Winston pops up frequently however he may be tied to NO and does his limited mobility limit his attractiveness in FA? I for one don't believe Jameis is what RR is looking for as an upgrade. Trubisky has been mentioned often. A strong arm guy who just never really put it together in Chicago and likely drafted ahead of where he went in a lack luster 2017 draft class behind Watson & Mahomes. What I think RR will be after is a Mariota type, with a vet presence, NFL arm and legs to create off script or design runs for. He will likely come at a favorable price and he makes this move prior to the draft due to having that QB in place to lead the franchise who "wants to move forward" in its culture phase, and there is no guarantee the next QB is there at pick #11 and there is no gurantee any QB in this draft warrants the 11th pick according to Ron. If Pickett is there then maybe he brings him in behind his vet starter really liking his QB room with TH as his #3. I believe he ultimately brings in this guy thus making our QB room Mariota, Pickett (#11) and TH. If Pickett unavailable, maybe LB Dean from GA.

Marcus Mariota​

PFF Free Agency Rank: 60
2021 Snaps: 24
2021 PFF grade: 58.2 (N/A)

For years, the primary goal of quarterbacks in Mariota’s position was to find a team desperate enough for a starter to sign them to an inflated deal in free agency that they’d inevitably regret a year later. While that’s still a goal, there are more potential avenues for players with Mariota’s skill set. With two-quarterback systems cropping up around the NFL, Mariota could attempt to leverage New Orleans Saints weapon Taysom Hill’s recent four-year, $40 million extension with massive upside. Mariota is an infinitely superior passer of the football, and while he’s had a handful of injuries the past few years, he’s still just 28 years old.

Projected contract: 1 yrs — $8m avg/yr

MM, Pickett, and Heinicke works for me.

 

[skinz2winz]

MM, Pickett, and Heinicke works for me.

I could live with it.

 

[Stymietee]

Washington had a better oline than than the colts did with a worse running game.

Scary Terry is a significantly better wr than Michael Pittman is in Indy, so that would help wentz.

The te and secondary weapons are about the same.

Plus the Commanders are playing a third place schedule with six games against the nfc least.

Not sure how nine wins would happen if the Commanders were “extremely x3 lucky.”

I dont like Wentz though, personally. Too slow to throw the ball, and gigantic red flag if his qb coach who traded for him is quick to get rid of him after one year. Especially with Johnathan Taylor toting the rock.

Two quick things;

Those third place scheduled teams would be playing against a team QB'ed by a shot player. We gain no advantage signing a player who is potentially worse in this offense than Taylor Heinicke.

The position of @dad was that Wentz puts them in a position to get 9 wins, my counter to that is that they would have to be 3-X lucky to reach that number of wins. Without such luck, I see them (with Wentz) as no better than Heinicke...remember?

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Wentz hasn't shown enough over the past few years to warrant punting on QB in this draft. Jmo Not the best QB class, but I've seen worse. The EJ Manual class comes to mind.

Keim even stated that he heard from an NFL scout that had Pickett rated over Mac Jones. Most people do feel the best QB out of this class would have gone after Jones.

Still think once Willis runs around in shorts and throws deep outs on a rope he's gonna skyrocket up the board.

I agree on Willis, i'm actually going to be suprised if Coral, Pickett and Willis are even still there at 11. we still may get a shot to trade down, you never really know how or who is available at QB until its time

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Two quick things;

Those third place scheduled teams would be playing against a team QB'ed by a shot player. We gain no advantage signing a player who is potentially worse in this offense than Taylor Heinicke.

The position of @dad was that Wentz puts them in a position to get 9 wins, my counter to that is that they would have to be 3-X lucky to reach that number of wins. Without such luck, I see them (with Wentz) as no better than Heinicke...remember?


View attachment 289758

i know i got humbled when this prediction came true, TH is still a great back up IMO but it was humbling to realize he's a game manager and nothing more....at least with what we have on this roster

 

[Stymietee]

Wentz is not an improvement but a reach. Let's focus on improving the starting QB position as RR has mentioned on multiple occasions this off season. What is an improvement over what RR has had to date here in Washington and, is Wentz a likely improvement to that? The simple and correct answer is no so why entertain it?

There are a few QB's out there who I feel would give us an upgrade from what we recently had with Watson being one of them. Unfortunately he won't be in DC due to his current situation. Absolutely the wrong PR move by Rivera and he knows it. He just went all COMMANDO in all of us so no way does he "halt" the culture move to bring in Watson. We are not attractive enough for the Rodgers, Wilson types at this point in their respective careers. The next reasonable would be Jimmy G as he fits a Turner style (short to intermediate) offense but after watching this years playoff performances, why would you want a guy who is being cast off for a 2nd year player who has limited NFL snaps? Red flag, Pass! As much as RR talks about finding the much needed QB leader, he knows that he and the Organization are in a tough predicament due to current climates in DC surrounding Snyder and quite frankly, who would want to come here right now? It's not a desired destination as we all know.

That takes us to this point where we must make up our minds about what RR would consider an upgrade at the position given the restrictive numbers game of which to choose from. Jameis Winston pops up frequently however he may be tied to NO and does his limited mobility limit his attractiveness in FA? I for one don't believe Jameis is what RR is looking for as an upgrade. Trubisky has been mentioned often. A strong arm guy who just never really put it together in Chicago and likely drafted ahead of where he went in a lack luster 2017 draft class behind Watson & Mahomes. What I think RR will be after is a Mariota type, with a vet presence, NFL arm and legs to create off script or design runs for. He will likely come at a favorable price and he makes this move prior to the draft due to having that QB in place to lead the franchise who "wants to move forward" in its culture phase, and there is no guarantee the next QB is there at pick #11 and there is no gurantee any QB in this draft warrants the 11th pick according to Ron. If Pickett is there then maybe he brings him in behind his vet starter really liking his QB room with TH as his #3. I believe he ultimately brings in this guy thus making our QB room Mariota, Pickett (#11) and TH. If Pickett unavailable, maybe LB Dean from GA.

Marcus Mariota​

PFF Free Agency Rank: 60
2021 Snaps: 24
2021 PFF grade: 58.2 (N/A)

For years, the primary goal of quarterbacks in Mariota’s position was to find a team desperate enough for a starter to sign them to an inflated deal in free agency that they’d inevitably regret a year later. While that’s still a goal, there are more potential avenues for players with Mariota’s skill set. With two-quarterback systems cropping up around the NFL, Mariota could attempt to leverage New Orleans Saints weapon Taysom Hill’s recent four-year, $40 million extension with massive upside. Mariota is an infinitely superior passer of the football, and while he’s had a handful of injuries the past few years, he’s still just 28 years old.

Projected contract: 1 yrs — $8m avg/yr

I agree Wentz is not an improvement.

I think that it's past time to gain an understanding of what "culture change" means and how it applies to whether or not other players want to come here. (I've posted a new thread on this)

That said, Washington is a historical 7-8-9 win kind of team to present so improvement has by definition means moving up to a more consistent 9 win team minimum. This is qualifying for the playoffs territory, something Washington has never been consistent doing even in their SB years. While it's true that one can easily be consistently mediocre or bad, it is a more difficult proposition to be consistently good to great. The most important piece to achieving that goal comes in having that QB in place. Anyone talking about stopgap necessarily means another season of mediocrity. I'm not against that just as long as the player in waiting is the correct one and he actually sits. (It's not Pickett) Who could that be who won't want his contract to extend to the 2023, 2024 season or further? To me that sort of eliminates a MM type, but I can be persuaded, give me the details of a potential MM contract.

 

[Stymietee]

i know i got humbled when this prediction came true, TH is still a great back up IMO but it was humbling to realize he's a game manager and nothing more....at least with what we have on this roster

The NFL is now, for better or worse a QB-dominated league. People wanted more scoring and less defense so the all-powerful league said, "let there be light!" and it was so. Right now the one team that is a consistent playoff contender without "that guy" is Tennessee and after qualifying they exit quickly. I get it, it's difficult to get that guy but outside of Norm Snead (summarily trade for Jurgensen) and Bobby 3 sticks, Washington has never sought out or actually got a top-flight QB. Small wonder why mediocrity has been their calling card.

 

[skinz2winz]

I agree Wentz is not an improvement.

I think that it's past time to gain an understanding of what "culture change" means and how it applies to whether or not other players want to come here. (I've posted a new thread on this)

That said, Washington is a historical 7-8-9 win kind of team to present so improvement has by definition means moving up to a more consistent 9 win team minimum. This is qualifying for the playoffs territory, something Washington has never been consistent doing even in their SB years. While it's true that one can easily be consistently mediocre or bad, it is a more difficult proposition to be consistently good to great. The most important piece to achieving that goal comes in having that QB in place. Anyone talking about stopgap necessarily means another season of mediocrity. I'm not against that just as long as the player in waiting is the correct one and he actually sits. (It's not Pickett) Who could that be who won't want his contract to extend to the 2023, 2024 season or further? To me that sort of eliminates a MM type, but I can be persuaded, give me the details of a potential MM contract.

Mariota presents an opportunity to tweak the offense. He can throw it (watched him many, many times at Oregon) deep, intermediate and he can run it. Granted his snap count is not what we want however, his situation has somewhat hindered that. In order to get him signed, perhaps a 2 year deal would lure him at $24, first full year guaranteed, team option for year 2. The potential to make $24m is there and "if" he plays really well, why wouldn't they bring him back?

 

[kbso83432]

My wish list as of 2/20/22 Rodgers is not an option.

1. Watson
2. Wilson
3. Murray
4. Carr
5. Pickett
6. Willis
7. Corral
8. Winston
9. Wentz
10. Marriota
11. Heinicke
12. Trubisky

 

[Stymietee]

Mariota presents an opportunity to tweak the offense. He can throw it (watched him many, many times at Oregon) deep, intermediate and he can run it. Granted his snap count is not what we want however, his situation has somewhat hindered that. In order to get him signed, perhaps a 2 year deal would lure him at $24, first full year guaranteed, team option for year 2. The potential to make $24m is there and "if" he plays really well, why wouldn't they bring him back?

I am concerned about any potential contract with Mariota. Hopefully, he's open to a two-year deal like you're proposing. He is likely to understand that he's going to serve the role of stopgap and insist for at least an additional year. Thoughts?

 

[skinsdad62]

Two quick things;

Those third place scheduled teams would be playing against a team QB'ed by a shot player. We gain no advantage signing a player who is potentially worse in this offense than Taylor Heinicke.

The position of @dad was that Wentz puts them in a position to get 9 wins, my counter to that is that they would have to be 3-X lucky to reach that number of wins. Without such luck, I see them (with Wentz) as no better than Heinicke...remember?


View attachment 289758

This is a bad take , saying a guy will get nines wins max doesn’t mean I think he gets 9 wins and hence that is the standard . I said max which should imply I think less.

I don’t think the commies are going to be very good next year . Too many distractions

And fans are going to be let down at qb . We aren’t getting a star qb . We are getting 2nd or 3rd tier

And if the commie FO gives up resources for Grap then they all need to be fired and water boarded

 

[skinsdad62]

My wish list as of 2/20/22 Rodgers is not an option.

1. Watson
2. Wilson
3. Murray
4. Carr
5. Pickett
6. Willis
7. Corral
8. Winston
9. Wentz
10. Marriota
11. Heinicke
12. Trubisky

Top 4 aren’t happening

 

[wilwhite]

None of the rookie QBs in this draft are better prospects than Winston and Mariota were in 2015.

I don't think 2022 is going to fix this team, and trying desperately to do make it happen will just make things worse. The #11 pick is not the answer this year. If I were a Washington fan (happily I'm not), I'd want so see them invest in 2023 picks and roll with Heinicke as a scrappy feel-good story that might keep them as a borderline playoff contender.

There might be magic in 2023. There's none now.

 

[kbso83432]

None of the rookie QBs in this draft are better prospects than Winston and Mariota were in 2015.

I don't think 2022 is going to fix this team, and trying desperately to do make it happen will just make things worse. The #11 pick is not the answer this year. If I were a Washington fan (happily I'm not), I'd want so see them invest in 2023 picks and roll with Heinicke as a scrappy feel-good story that might keep them as a borderline playoff contender.

There might be magic in 2023. There's none now.

I love the 2023 class! It actually crossed my mind to trade #11 for a 1st+ in 2023 so I can stack picks and grab one of the top QBs in next year's draft.

That said, Ron is desperate to post his first winning season, and Snyder has a re-brand going on and needs butts in seats. Heinicke doesn't do that and most fans would riot if we gave away #11 for 2023 picks.

 

[skinsdad62]

I love the 2023 class! It actually crossed my mind to trade #11 for a 1st+ in 2023 so I can stack picks and grab one of the top QBs in next year's draft.

That said, Ron is desperate to post his first winning season, and Snyder has a re-brand going on and needs butts in seats. Heinicke doesn't do that and most fans would riot if we gave away #11 for 2023 picks.

if you do things out of desperation you increase the chance of failing . keep drafting qbs till you get one . he has one playoff appearance in 2 years , that should buy him time .