Waving the white flag on the Heat season

[WiggyRuss]

Damn, you're putting all of your chips on stupid.

I think that people who believe LeBron deliberately sabotaged Dwyane Wade and the Heat because he was afraid of what they might do is beyond stupid. With LeBron's ego- i am sure the last thing he worried about was the team he was leaving being a thorn in his side going forward.

But everyone will believe what they want to believe- facts be damned.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think that people who believe LeBron deliberately sabotaged Dwyane Wade and the Heat because he was afraid of what they might do is beyond stupid. With LeBron's ego- i am sure the last thing he worried about was the team he was leaving being a thorn in his side going forward.

But everyone will believe what they want to believe- facts be damned.

Your stupidity is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Your stupidity is the gift that keeps on giving.

i know you can call me stupid- but can you actually make an argument?

Just to be clear- you truly believe LeBron deliberately tried to sabotage the Heat and thats why he waited till July 11th to go public with his decision? -everyone clearly knows where i stand- I want to know if ia m correct from reading your previous posts- that this is what you think.

 

[trojanfan12]

i know you can call me stupid- but can you actually make an argument?

Just to be clear- you truly believe LeBron deliberately tried to sabotage the Heat and thats why he waited till July 11th to go public with his decision? -everyone clearly knows where i stand- I want to know if ia m correct from reading your previous posts- that this is what you think.

I've already made it. You're just not bright enough to grasp it. Go back and re-read the last few pages of this thread.

 

[WiggyRuss]

its what i thought. Thanks.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Sheridan announced it 2 days earlier. He said LeBron delivered the news to Riley in that meeting. He also said the announcement would come from lebronjames.com.

Windhorst, Broussard, Aldridge, Shelburne, Amick and others all immediately refuted that report and said that no decision was given to the Heat and that the Heat remained optimistic.

After the official letter, Sheridan said he received some leaked misinformation.

The opinion of most people is that while Sheridan turned out correct, he was a little over eager to be the one to break it and acted on less than a sure thing.

thats what i dont get- in one breath they try and say how obvious it was LeBron was going to Cleveland- heck- TurnUp and his "evidence"--- and saying the Cavs would not commit assets without knowing an answer- (nevermind they just committeda ton of good assets to Love without knowing an answer of whether he will be back)

So- according to them- the evidence was out there- everyone knew it- heck- i dont talk to anyone in the NBA- but I thought he was gone from Miami--- some of these heat fans even point to some Mike Miller interview where he had a picture in the back ground

So- what is it? did no one know, and thats why they say Riley could not make moves- or did Riley know and refused to accept the truth.

out of one corner of their mouth they say they didnt want lebron with all his opt outs and control that cleveland gave him- and on the other they say Riley had no clue what LeBron was going to do- and thats why he pissed down his leg for 2 weeks and gave away below average contracts to below average players.

And on top of it- they think that there was some conspiracy theory hatched by LeBron to screw the Heat.

I just dont get it- when you look at the big picture- its clear what happened

LeBron was probably leaving Miami for Cleveland
Riley- atleast according to Heat fans-would not give up as much control as Dan G did, or give LeBron carte blanche to name hiscontract terms
At that point should Riley have moved on? if reporters, players, etc. saw the writing on the wall- and Riley himself knew how he denied lebron the control and contract terms he wanted.
WAS he in denial and unprepared?

to me- when i see the moves he made- both pre-LeBron's announcement and post-announcement- it reeks ofa guy who never thought there was a real chance of him leaving up until the last game of the Finals- and he scrambled to put together a half ass plan where he was never fully in one way or out one way- he tried to straddle the middle- being prepared for both- and it burned him. To blame that on LeBron when LeBron owed him absoltuely nothing- is what a spoiled child would do.

And again- I know Dan promised James the world- despite their falling out and how bad it was- Dan was able to put down his ego and give the best player in the world the terms he wanted- Riley could not let his pride dothe same.

and now the teams are where they are.

 

[WiggyRuss]

James met with several teams during his 2 FA periods, and NOPE, no other team dumped any players just because they HAD a meeting.
Cavs dumped players because they HAD a commitment.

Of all owners, the dickhead who wrote the letter on the night that James left for Miami would be the last to dump nice young prospects 'just in case'.

lol- he did JUST THAT- and actually traded REALLY GOOD assets- not just guys like Sergey Karasev, Jarret Jack on a mediocre-pretty crappy contract- and the one real asset - Tyler Zeller- to clear cap room-

he just dealt Andrew Wiggins, Bennett and 2 first rounders- for one season of Kevin Love on the hopes that he could get him to resign- where there is by NBA laws no way Love could guarantee him anything! lol-

Dan and the Cavs stockpiled those assets PRECISELY to do what they did- take the best run at the best players they could when they were ready-

If LeBron did not sign- they still had max room to throw at Gordon Heyward or other players.


and really- TURNUP- this is what i dont get- those last few days- to me anyway- it was apparent he was gone from miami- all the national media guys, - etc. - your telling me that Pat Riley- with the inside information that he would not give LeBron the contract terms and control that the Cavs would- that Pat Riley STILL thought LeBron was coming back tothe Heat?

how do you possibly reconcile that? The only way I can is that Riley was either in denial or unprepared.

*either that or he was like Stugotz and you and just it just totally never even entered their mind that he would go back to Cleveland- i mean that had to be it when you look back- Riley had to absolutely think that all this media speculation that he was going to Cleveland was a big joke? Why else trade up for Napier and sign trash like McBob and Granger and spend like 7.5 million between those 2? He really had to think that there was just no way LeBron was leaving- he had to be just so blinded by his own arrogance.

 

[WiggyRuss]

it leads to an actualy REAL philosophical basketball question.

SHOULD Pat Riley have offered LeBron what Dan Gilbert did? And would it have made a difference.

Was the difference here the fact that Dan Gilbert was able to swallow his pride and give up control and Pat Riley was not able to do so?

These to me are the interesting questions- and questions that will come up again and again in the NBA- not only in this situation- but in other situations as well.

Durant, RW, Alridge, Gasol,- countless others will be free agents- how much is too much to give a player?

IS THERE TOO MUCH when you talk about a guy like LeBron who makes you an instant title contender and brings in millions upon millions of dollars and fans?

that too me is the good stuff- id prefer debates on that rather than squabbling between what happened months ago on stuff that in teh grand scheme of things is really just a difference in perception.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Wow, the level of stupidity in this post is simply mindboggling.

It's unvelievable.
So many words he uses to incorrectly answer a question, or better yet even comprehend it.
Of course you have to clear space to offer a max, but teams don't trade away their top future assets in hope of signing someone, they do it when they know its needed.



I got a better questions for Wiggy and Gordon. One that takes out any speculation.

How much time does it take to find, and purchase all the billboards in a downtown area?

How much time does it take to create content, and get the content to the people who put in on the billboards?


Then, is it not fact that the new James billboards were up all over downtown either July 11 or 12?

Also, let's not forget the leaked out photos of the Nike meeting rooms in Vegas days before Riley flew out, all in the Cavs wine and gold.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

it leads to an actualy REAL philosophical basketball question.

SHOULD Pat Riley have offered LeBron what Dan Gilbert did? And would it have made a difference.

Was the difference here the fact that Dan Gilbert was able to swallow his pride and give up control and Pat Riley was not able to do so?

These to me are the interesting questions- and questions that will come up again and again in the NBA- not only in this situation- but in other situations as well.

Durant, RW, Alridge, Gasol,- countless others will be free agents- how much is too much to give a player?

IS THERE TOO MUCH when you talk about a guy like LeBron who makes you an instant title contender and brings in millions upon millions of dollars and fans?

that too me is the good stuff- id prefer debates on that rather than squabbling between what happened months ago on stuff that in teh grand scheme of things is really just a difference in perception.

NO.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

lol- he did JUST THAT- and actually traded REALLY GOOD assets- not just guys like Sergey Karasev, Jarret Jack on a mediocre-pretty crappy contract- and the one real asset - Tyler Zeller- to clear cap room-

he just dealt Andrew Wiggins, Bennett and 2 first rounders- for one season of Kevin Love on the hopes that he could get him to resign- where there is by NBA laws no way Love could guarantee him anything! lol-

Dan and the Cavs stockpiled those assets PRECISELY to do what they did- take the best run at the best players they could when they were ready-

If LeBron did not sign- they still had max room to throw at Gordon Heyward or other players.


and really- TURNUP- this is what i dont get- those last few days- to me anyway- it was apparent he was gone from miami- all the national media guys, - etc. - your telling me that Pat Riley- with the inside information that he would not give LeBron the contract terms and control that the Cavs would- that Pat Riley STILL thought LeBron was coming back tothe Heat?

how do you possibly reconcile that? The only way I can is that Riley was either in denial or unprepared.

*either that or he was like Stugotz and you and just it just totally never even entered their mind that he would go back to Cleveland- i mean that had to be it when you look back- Riley had to absolutely think that all this media speculation that he was going to Cleveland was a big joke? Why else trade up for Napier and sign trash like McBob and Granger and spend like 7.5 million between those 2? He really had to think that there was just no way LeBron was leaving- he had to be just so blinded by his own arrogance.

My best guess of an answer is that Riley was seeing and hearing the same things we all were.
It all equated to that James was leaving or totally seeking the ultimate revenge on Gilbert.

Regardless, he really had no choice but to wait and hope.

Riley is a great speaker. I wouldn't doubt that he felt that he could undo everything that seemed apparently done when he was able to speak to him one on one.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My best guess of an answer is that Riley was seeing and hearing the same things we all were.
It all equated to that James was leaving or totally seeking the ultimate revenge on Gilbert.

Regardless, he really had no choice but to wait and hope.

Riley is a great speaker. I wouldn't doubt that he felt that he could undo everything that seemed apparently done when he was able to speak to him one on one.

his arrogance got the best of him obviously

 

[bksballer89]

You don't just give up on bringing back the best player in the world until you hear his camp tell you your'e out of the race.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

his arrogance got the best of him obviously

That's stupid.
He had no choice.

His 'arrogance' is really a skillset which in part got James to come here for the best 4 seasons of his prime and play for a discount.

Regardless, it took him all of no time to make sure the Heat had no salaries on the books heading into the projected monster FA '16 class ( as he had prepared for in '10).

Hopefully that has changed now with the acquisitions of Whiteside and Dragic, but regardless, everyone knows that if big moves are to be made next summer the Heat is always a major player.

There is no reason to think we won't be very good next year.
I suppose how good will dictate the moves to be made or not made next summer.


You keep telling us you won't be dissatisfied if you come up short this year.
We keep telling you your best chances will probably be now and next year.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My best guess of an answer is that Riley was seeing and hearing the same things we all were.
It all equated to that James was leaving or totally seeking the ultimate revenge on Gilbert.

Regardless, he really had no choice but to wait and hope.

Riley is a great speaker. I wouldn't doubt that he felt that he could undo everything that seemed apparently done when he was able to speak to him one on one.

wait a minute- yo usay he had no choice but to wait and hope? THIS FROM THE SAME GUY that said he would not have given LeBron the contract terms and control he got in Cleveland?!

you think riley HAD NO CHOICE but to wait when the writing on the wall was he was gone- when Riley hismelf knew he was not going to match LeBrons demands-

Really? Pat Riley had NO CHOICE butto wait in light of everything that was out there? That goes against every single thing you have said about the whole situation.

and really man? the only REASON the Cavs were clearing max contract space could have been for LeBron?- OF COURSE they needed to get to a max contract- IMAGINE the barrell a team would have them over if LeBron committed and then they NEEDED to deal someone to make cap space- that is an absolute NIGHTMARE to contemplate how little leverage you would have- it wouldnt have been some decent prospects going- it would have been a real asset like a Waiters - ---imagine that conversation- will you take Jarret JAck from us? If you do we getto sign LeBron!- LOL- that isasking to get violated in the worst way possible.

you older guys like you and TrojanFan and other older posters- really fail to see the game from a management perspective a lot of the time- it leads to this chronic myopia where you say somethig in your head that seems right to you - but is just totally offbase when you look at the actual forces at work

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

wait a minute- yo usay he had no choice but to wait and hope? THIS FROM THE SAME GUY that said he would not have given LeBron the contract terms and control he got in Cleveland?!

you think riley HAD NO CHOICE but to wait when the writing on the wall was he was gone- when Riley hismelf knew he was not going to match LeBrons demands-

Really? Pat Riley had NO CHOICE butto wait in light of everything that was out there? That goes against every single thing you have said about the whole situation.

and really man? the only REASON the Cavs were clearing max contract space could have been for LeBron?- OF COURSE they needed to get to a max contract- IMAGINE the barrell a team would have them over if LeBron committed and then they NEEDED to deal someone to make cap space- that is an absolute NIGHTMARE to contemplate how little leverage you would have- it wouldnt have been some decent prospects going- it would have been a real asset like a Waiters - ---imagine that conversation- will you take Jarret JAck from us? If you do we getto sign LeBron!- LOL- that isasking to get violated in the worst way possible.

you older guys like you and TrojanFan and other older posters- really fail to see the game from a management perspective a lot of the time- it leads to this chronic myopia where you say somethig in your head that seems right to you - but is just totally offbase when you look at the actual forces at work

You are wrong again.
Riley said he had no communication with James from seasons end until the meeting.
Since that's the case, how would he know what any demands would be?
Gilbert knew because James told him during the secret planegate meeting.

Not only that, but what makes you think that James asked Riley for anything in that meeting?
He didn't, because it was a charade and he already knew he was gone.


I see no answer on the billboard question.
I see no comment on the Vegas Nike meeting rooms in Cavs colors that whole week.
Should we rehash the moving trucks, kids being enrolled in school in May, etc., etc.

And just because my opinion is that I wouldn't give him opt outs every year
doesn't mean Riley wouldn't have if given a choice.

 

[Black Adam]

btw, what's age got to do with it? just askin'...

 

[gordontrue]

I got a better questions for Wiggy and Gordon. One that takes out any speculation.
How much time does it take to find, and purchase all the billboards in a downtown area?
How much time does it take to create content, and get the content to the people who put in on the billboards?

I honestly have zero clue. My guess is the answer depends on how much money one is willing to pay.

I don't think it matters though. Having provisions in place for a possible scenario does not mean that scenario was set in stone. That's just smart marketing/business.

Same thing with all the moves the Cavs made before officially signing LeBron. The Heat also spent that time making sure they could accomadate re-signing James. Heck, several franchises had been making moves for two+ years to be in a position to try and sign him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I honestly have zero clue. My guess is the answer depends on how much money one is willing to pay.

I don't think it matters though. Having provisions in place for a possible scenario does not mean that scenario was set in stone. That's just smart marketing/business.

Same thing with all the moves the Cavs made before officially signing LeBron. The Heat also spent that time making sure they could accomadate re-signing James. Heck, several franchises had been making moves for two+ years to be in a position to try and sign him.

exactly- the New York Knicks torpedoed like 3 seasons and attached a lot of assets to bad contracts just toget the cap room to end up with Amare and Chandler.

Dan Gilbert is not afraid to spend money and take bigrisks if they can pay off.

Riley has no one else to blame but himself if after working with the guy for 4 years he had no clue what was going to happen when the rest of the basketball world saw it coming. Man, maybe he should have been talking to Pau Gasol, lol

I mean- when it comes down to it, what did Heat fans expect? that he would rush his decision just to make Pay Rileys life easier?

an the Melo thing is just crazy- i think the only places that had a legit shot at him were the Lakers,Bullsand Knicks- and the Lakers- if they had more pieces to win now- might have gotten more serious cconsideration - but it really came down to the Bulls- the most talented team he could go to- and staying with the Knicks and geting paid a TON more money then anyone else could pay him. Miami was a distant 4th in that battle.

 

[trojanfan12]

I see no answer on the billboard question.
I see no comment on the Vegas Nike meeting rooms in Cavs colors that whole week.

You didn't really expect one, did you?