Waving the white flag on the Heat season

[trojanfan12]

If Stanley Johnson falls to the Heat (probably goes in the 6-9 range so very likely) then that would be a huge gain for them. He's going to be a stud and just because he had one not so great game against Wisky his stock dropped him from a lock to go 5th or 6th down to the 8-9 range.

If the Lakers fall to #5, I wouldn't complain if they took Stanley Johnson.

 

[trojanfan12]

Oh, the irony... those first two statements followed by calling someone a blind homer.

C'mon, it's pretty obvious what Lebron did and was doing. There is plenty of evidence that he tried to intentionally sabotage the Heat's off-season. If he wasn't, then what was with the spy vs. spy secret meetings with Gilbert?

It was actually pretty smart on Lebron's part. After all, if Riley had the time to go after some of the better FA's, the Heat probably emerge as one of the biggest threats to the Cavs chances of getting out of the east. As it was, had the Heat stayed healthy, they may have accomplished that anyway considering the emergence of Whiteside and addition of Dragic.

In fact, the only evidence that points to Lebron NOT intentionally sabotaging Miami's off-season is that he's not bright enough on his own to pull it off.

 

[bksballer89]

Yeah the Vegas meeting was a joke. Pat should have just said fuck you and never showed up after the way he treated the heat organization since the finals ended

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

C'mon, it's pretty obvious what Lebron did and was doing. There is plenty of evidence that he tried to intentionally sabotage the Heat's off-season. If he wasn't, then what was with the spy vs. spy secret meetings with Gilbert?

It was actually pretty smart on Lebron's part. After all, if Riley had the time to go after some of the better FA's, the Heat probably emerge as one of the biggest threats to the Cavs chances of getting out of the east. As it was, had the Heat stayed healthy, they may have accomplished that anyway considering the emergence of Whiteside and addition of Dragic.

In fact, the only evidence that points to Lebron NOT intentionally sabotaging Miami's off-season is that he's not bright enough on his own to pull it off.

In James' head, it had to be decided BEFORE that no reason to be secret meeting.
The meeting was to just clarify what James would demand from Gilbert which was annual opt outs, and basically total control/input of any basketball realted decision.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Boo fucking hoo. You got to watch your team play in 4 straight finals, give me a break

And where was he or any Heat fan crying?

I'm as excited about the prospects of next season was I was heading into 2010.
I know we can't replace or replicate getting James entering his prime, but we can have a better, more balanced TEAM with an actual PG and C.

 

[bksballer89]

Cavs fan ruined this thread as always.

Wiggy started it by bitching about MY PERSONAL OPINION on how Lebron ruined the Heat offseason last year.

I stand by my opinion that the Heat would have a much better idea of what to go after this offseason. Last season they never did until it was too late because if Lebron returned you would have targeted different kind of players and once he left we had to basically create an entire new list

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cavs fan ruined this thread as always.

Wiggy started it by bitching about MY PERSONAL OPINION on how Lebron ruined the Heat offseason last year.

I stand by my opinion that the Heat would have a much better idea of what to go after this offseason. Last season they never did until it was too late because if Lebron returned you would have targeted different kind of players and once he left we had to basically create an entire new list

Wiggy is claiming that Riley did the same job as he would have done whether he knew he would have 25M+ or whatever to work with vs thinking he had to save max space for James and then do patchwork with the rest.

That's insane.

 

[Flauge]

Several players including Mike Miller and Pau Gasol said they knew well before LeBron announced where he was going. He flew a 70 year old man across country to make him beg when his decision was made. The people around LeBron are notorious for this bullshit.

Here is the bottom line.. I don't care. I really don't. I laughed when he spurned your team in 2010. I thought his national televised dumping of your fan base was awesome. I applauded the Miami pep rally. Ask any of the old CBS posters. They know me. I thought it was great.. still do. LeBron and his people do this stuff.. because they can. I wish he still played for Miami, sure. But he is allowed to go where ever he wants and play for whomever he decides. But let's cut the crap that this guy handles these situations in the best way possible and he didn't screw over the heat. Remember the Mike Miller working out picture with the LeBron cavs jersey right in the middle of the picture? Miller admitted he knew and was trolling Heat fans. It's fine. But quit acting like this didn't happen.

 

[BobGnarly]

Lots of pettiness from all sides here.

I'm just sittin here like

 

[WiggyRuss]

Cavs fan ruined this thread as always.

Wiggy started it by bitching about MY PERSONAL OPINION on how Lebron ruined the Heat offseason last year.

I stand by my opinion that the Heat would have a much better idea of what to go after this offseason. Last season they never did until it was too late because if Lebron returned you would have targeted different kind of players and once he left we had to basically create an entire new list

LOL...dude- yo uhave got to be kidding- ISNT THAT WHAT THIS BOARD IS FOR? debating eachothers personal opinions?- for some reason you think LeBron had this grand plan in his mind to screw the Heat- do you think for ONE SECOND- LeBron- with his ego- thought that the Heat would be a fly on his ass with Kyrie and Love and without him? HELLL NO...

and you act like LeBron had some duty to the Heat- he did not owe the shit- without him they dont make it to one Finals in that period- let alone 4 and win 2. LeBron did not owe the Heat organization the duty of pissing on them if they were on fire at that point. He did what he wanted to do on his own time and could not care one iota that it was tying Riley's hands. For you to think that he based his offesason plans around screwing the Heat is simply delusional in my book.

Despite all these so called "genuis moves" of Rileys- Whiteside, Dragic, getting Deng late- the Heat are exactly where LeBron expected them to be without him. Marcin Gortat or Trevor Ariza changes absolutely NOTHING- and they STILL had a chance at Melo and get rejected-

spending their money on McRoberts, Granger, Chalmers, Deng was their problem. With or without LeBron does anyone think those moves do anything? I sure dont

 

[WiggyRuss]

All the actual good players the heat would've targeted had they known LeBron was definitely gone a week earlier had either signed with a team already or had cut down their list to 2 teams already which means there was no room for some new team to enter negotiations with the player.

Kyle Lowry, Gortat, Melo, & Gasol were all guys the heat wanted and would've went really hard for if they knew about the LeBron situation. I still remember one reason Lowry could not consider Miami is because they could not give him a definitive money amount because they did not know if LeBron would resign or not.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you though. I believe what I believe.

But you're really an idiot if you don't think Miami would have targeted Melo very hard had they known on July 1st that LeBron was leaving. Deng at best was their 3rd SF option

If you really think the heat would've settled for guys like Williams & Brown if LeBron left on July 2nd or 3rd you're a fucking idiot[/QUOTE]

that is the agrument of people that refuse to look at the actual facts of the situation and know they could not make a decent argument if they had to.

Every single one of those guys besides Gasol signed with their hometown team for big money- (personally I HATE the Gortat contract)- and gasol went to the better team

If the Heat were so worried about what was going to happen- and with how you two guys have acted- you are GLAD he left considering the opt outs- maybe they should not have let LeBron James dictate to them. LeBron owed them nothing- the Cavs said the same things to LeBron- they wanted him to act faster since they had irons in the fire - but if you are going after LeBron- you know- he has all the power and he will do what he wants when he wants.

To act like LeBron sabotaged the Heat season is the worst excuse I have ever heard. Riley obviously had no interest in giving LeBron the level of control and say that Miami did- Great for Riley- Persoanly- if he would have aswallowed his pride and admitted LeBron is 10 times more important than he is to the Heats success- maybe he is still there- Gilbert- even though him and LeBron had one of the most spiteful public spats in sports history- swallowed his pride- (Despite having a young team with some good young players and a pretty bright future)- and could have easily said- Eff you LeBron- ill buikld around Kyrie/Wiggins a ton of picks and young players and a bunch of cap space

thank GOODNESS he did not have that type of Ego that Riley had.

Maybe Riley should have realized it was over instead of hanging on LeBrons balls while trying to keep power and credit for himself. sorry Pat- yah cant have it both ways.


what choices did they have? They had already spent about 8 million of their cap space on McBob and Granger- they had a shot at Melo and he rejected them-

 

[WiggyRuss]

to actually put some numbers on it

Bosh 21
Wade 15


the other guys the Heat decided on bringing back(orbring in previous to lebron left) ?
Chalmers 4
Anderson 5
McBob 5
Haslem 3
Granger 2

so 19 million on those guys- and not one is a "good" NBA player- no one forced Riley to give those 5 guys that money- when not one mkes a real impact- DJ Augistin would have been better than anyone of them-

The NBA market was frozen in a huge way until LeBron signed- please dont act like Riley had no choice but to give a bunch of nobodies a significant amount of money- if i am a fan that is my gripe.

19 and 36 gets you to 55- because Chalmers had his Bird Rights- they had enough to sign Deng- but they were EXTREMELY limited financially unless they were going to make sign and trades and the like once they - on speculation- gave McBob and Granger their money.

Put simply- Melo rejected them- he was still a free agent well after LeBron signed- but they would have had to do a ton of stuff to get him in even if he wanted to go there- which he didnt.

Again- there are such things as CAP HOLDS- and even if a guy is not under contract- if you continue to have his bird rights- his "cap hold" is still on the books and takes up salary.

As soon as the Heat decided to put all their eggs in one basket and hang on LeBrons nutsack- they sent themselves down the road to wehre they are today. LeBron did not owe them one thing.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This was hilarious at the time though

The Heat signed free agent Luol Deng on Tuesday, and Pat Riley didn’t understate the move, which helped the team salvage its roster after losingLeBron James.

“Signing Luol Deng is one of the most important free agent signings that we have ever had in the history of the franchise,” the Heat’s president said. “He is a proven All-Star and quintessential team player, both as a scorer, as well as an All-NBA defender.

“He brings the attitude of a warrior and competes every single night against the very, very best. We are thrilled to welcome him to the Heat family.”


Read more here: Miami Heat excited as warrior Luol Deng officially signs | Miami Herald Miami Herald

 

[gordontrue]

Really?

Please tell me your opinion as to when you feel James decided on the Cavs.

I've had this conversation way too many times with you, bk, and others. I don't know that it would be worthwhile to re-hash all that again right now.

Especially on a Heat thread... I don't want to derail it anymore than it already has been.

Rough season for the Heat. Unlike the Cavs in 2010, though, they have a LOT more to put on their list of reasons the season didn't go well other than losing the best player in basketball. The franchise has a proven track record of staying relevant, I don't expect that to change.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I've had this conversation way too many times with you, bk, and others. I don't know that it would be worthwhile to re-hash all that again right now.

Especially on a Heat thread... I don't want to derail it anymore than it already has been.

Rough season for the Heat. Unlike the Cavs in 2010, though, they have a LOT more to put on their list of reasons the season didn't go well other than losing the best player in basketball. The franchise has a proven track record of staying relevant, I don't expect that to change.

If James didn't already have the plan in his head, there would have been no secret meeting on the plane.
If he wasn't promised what he wanted during that meeting and agreed to it, then the Cavs wouldn't have starting dumping all the assets they did to clear the space for him.

Nothing other than common sense needs to be applied in this discussion.

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs fan ruined this thread as always.

Did anyone explain to him that only Lakers fans are allowed to ruin your threads?

 

[gordontrue]

If James didn't already have the plan in his head, there would have been no secret meeting on the plane.
If he wasn't promised what he wanted during that meeting and agreed to it, then the Cavs wouldn't have starting dumping all the assets they did to clear the space for him.

Nothing other than common sense needs to be applied in this discussion.

All right, if you want to go down the road we can, although I swear we've been down it before. [Warning... I feel a Wiggy-lenthed post coming on...]

I would add that what the discussion needs is common sense and an acknowledgement that - ultimately - we don't know when he made the decision. We. Don't. Know.

I have no problem with the postulating and making a best guess. Ultimately, that's what we're all doing on a sports forum. Its the absolute language - like "We all know it is 100% fact that..." - that makes me unable to refrain from retorting.


This analogy will fail on some levels, as all analogies do, but let me give it a try...

6 months ago I was looking for a job. No one at my workplace knew. I ended up getting several offers. At that point, I was 99% sure I was going to take one of the offers and leave my current job. Still, I didn't tell them. I could have told them, and it would have given them a few extra weeks to find my replacement, get training from me, etc. I had no ill will towards this company, in fact I wanted and still want the best for them. But I didn't tell them... because I wasn't 100% sure. I wasn't about to shut the door behind me until I knew without a doubt that I wanted to walk through the one in front of me. My career, my family, my happiness took priority over my desire for my company to be in the best position to move forward without me. Eventually, I officially accepted one of the offers and then I gave my company as much notice as possible.


My point is... it doesn't matter who says they "knew" LeBron was going to Cleveland, or how soon LeBron was pretty sure of his decision. Until he is 100% sure, it was his obligation to himself and his family to keep that door open and hear what Miami had to say to him.

Gilbert didn't know LeBron was coming until the letter was already online. That means LeBron didn't officially accept until after he told Miami his decision. Up until that morning... he had the option to change his mind and go back to Miami. That's a door he should keep open until he and his wife are 100% comfortable officially shutting it.


The notion that this was all an evil plot to screw over the Heat is far less believable to me than the notion that he was waiting to be sure in his decision. One sounds like a made-for-tv-movie plot and the other sounds like something we've all done countless times in our lives.

And, honestly, it all reeks of the conclusion of a bitter, jilted lover.

 

[bksballer89]

But somehow chris Sheridan knew a week in advance? A solid writer for several years put all his credibility on the line by saying LeBron is a lock to go to Cleveland immediately after he met with Cleveland? Sorry but no writer is dumb enough to put their credibility on the line unless someone from LeBron circle told Sheridan it's a done deal

 

[trojanfan12]

All right, if you want to go down the road we can, although I swear we've been down it before. [Warning... I feel a Wiggy-lenthed post coming on...]

I would add that what the discussion needs is common sense and an acknowledgement that - ultimately - we don't know when he made the decision. We. Don't. Know.

I have no problem with the postulating and making a best guess. Ultimately, that's what we're all doing on a sports forum. Its the absolute language - like "We all know it is 100% fact that..." - that makes me unable to refrain from retorting.


This analogy will fail on some levels, as all analogies do, but let me give it a try...

6 months ago I was looking for a job. No one at my workplace knew. I ended up getting several offers. At that point, I was 99% sure I was going to take one of the offers and leave my current job. Still, I didn't tell them. I could have told them, and it would have given them a few extra weeks to find my replacement, get training from me, etc. I had no ill will towards this company, in fact I wanted and still want the best for them. But I didn't tell them... because I wasn't 100% sure. I wasn't about to shut the door behind me until I knew without a doubt that I wanted to walk through the one in front of me. My career, my family, my happiness took priority over my desire for my company to be in the best position to move forward without me. Eventually, I officially accepted one of the offers and then I gave my company as much notice as possible.


My point is... it doesn't matter who says they "knew" LeBron was going to Cleveland, or how soon LeBron was pretty sure of his decision. Until he is 100% sure, it was his obligation to himself and his family to keep that door open and hear what Miami had to say to him.

Gilbert didn't know LeBron was coming until the letter was already online. That means LeBron didn't officially accept until after he told Miami his decision. Up until that morning... he had the option to change his mind and go back to Miami. That's a door he should keep open until he and his wife are 100% comfortable officially shutting it.


The notion that this was all an evil plot to screw over the Heat is far less believable to me than the notion that he was waiting to be sure in his decision. One sounds like a made-for-tv-movie plot and the other sounds like something we've all done countless times in our lives.

And, honestly, it all reeks of the conclusion of a bitter, jilted lover.

Not buying it. Sorry. You criticize people for making absolute statements re: when Lebron made his decision and then say: "Gilbert didn't know Lebron was coming until the letter was already online."

We know for a fact that Lebron and Gilbert had at least one secret meeting before the letter was posted. That alone says that Gilbert at least had a pretty good idea. Also, as turnup pointed out, why did the Cavs start dumping assets and not move forward with signing Wiggins if Gilbert didn't know what Lebron intended to do? It doesn't take much of a stretch of logic to conclude that they were hashing out the details of a deal that had already been discussed at least between Gilbert and Lebron's agents.

Also, the problem wasn't necessarily Lebron leaving. Rather, just like when he left Cleveland, the problem is with HOW he did it. Whether he did it intentionally or not, he stretched out his decision (he was among the first to enter the FA market and among the last to sign) long enough that it seriously hamstrung the Heat in the FA market.

For comparison, look at how Pau Gasol handled things with the Lakers. He communicated with them every step of the way and waited to see if they improved the team before leaving for Chicago.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Are the Cavs fans really claiming there was no collusion on Lebron/Kyrie/Gilbert's part?

Stop it.

Everyone knew...Hell, Russ you knew before Fannation even shut down....lol

With that being said, didn't Wade/Bosh/Bron do the same thing 5 years ago?

I'm not sure why anyone is upset or surprised by anything Lebron does.

Gilbert, the Cavs and his home state had to find out he was leaving during a 1 hour televised event.

So, why would he give 2 shits about leaving Riley and Co. high and dry?

All Lebron cares about is Lebron...and paving his way to championships the easiest way possible.