Waving the white flag on the Heat season

[TurnUpTheHeat]

All right, if you want to go down the road we can, although I swear we've been down it before. [Warning... I feel a Wiggy-lenthed post coming on...]

I would add that what the discussion needs is common sense and an acknowledgement that - ultimately - we don't know when he made the decision. We. Don't. Know.

I have no problem with the postulating and making a best guess. Ultimately, that's what we're all doing on a sports forum. Its the absolute language - like "We all know it is 100% fact that..." - that makes me unable to refrain from retorting.


This analogy will fail on some levels, as all analogies do, but let me give it a try...

6 months ago I was looking for a job. No one at my workplace knew. I ended up getting several offers. At that point, I was 99% sure I was going to take one of the offers and leave my current job. Still, I didn't tell them. I could have told them, and it would have given them a few extra weeks to find my replacement, get training from me, etc. I had no ill will towards this company, in fact I wanted and still want the best for them. But I didn't tell them... because I wasn't 100% sure. I wasn't about to shut the door behind me until I knew without a doubt that I wanted to walk through the one in front of me. My career, my family, my happiness took priority over my desire for my company to be in the best position to move forward without me. Eventually, I officially accepted one of the offers and then I gave my company as much notice as possible.


My point is... it doesn't matter who says they "knew" LeBron was going to Cleveland, or how soon LeBron was pretty sure of his decision. Until he is 100% sure, it was his obligation to himself and his family to keep that door open and hear what Miami had to say to him.

Gilbert didn't know LeBron was coming until the letter was already online. That means LeBron didn't officially accept until after he told Miami his decision. Up until that morning... he had the option to change his mind and go back to Miami. That's a door he should keep open until he and his wife are 100% comfortable officially shutting it.


The notion that this was all an evil plot to screw over the Heat is far less believable to me than the notion that he was waiting to be sure in his decision. One sounds like a made-for-tv-movie plot and the other sounds like something we've all done countless times in our lives.

And, honestly, it all reeks of the conclusion of a bitter, jilted lover.

By the time he announced his decision, either the Heat or the Cavs were getting screwed over.
You really think Gilbert is depleting assets BEFORE the announcement if he doesn't know there is an agreement in place?

And. didn't James limit who the Heat were allowed to bring to the meeting?
If that's the case, then he really didn't care to listen to what they had to say.

Again, he owed the Heat nothing, but what he did is pretty obvious.

He was going to drag it out until he could get on that plane for Brasil and avoid answering any questions and explaining that fake letter.

 

[bksballer89]

I don't think anyone is upset. Cavs fans are just in denial. If they would agree that LeBron playing the waiting game had a negative impact on the heat free agency due to other top free agents who the heat would've targeted had already signed with a team or cut it list down to 2 teams by the time LeBron made his decision. I'm not going to say it was deliberate but LeBron waiting so long to make a decision destroyed the heat plan B options for free agency. They were only able to sign 1 good player (not including players who they resigned). I think if they knew before hand they would've signed someone like Lowry in addition to deng and probably would've been able to get better role players instead of Williams & Brown. Sorry you're delusional if you think otherwise

 

[gordontrue]

But somehow chris Sheridan knew a week in advance? A solid writer for several years put all his credibility on the line by saying LeBron is a lock to go to Cleveland immediately after he met with Cleveland? Sorry but no writer is dumb enough to put their credibility on the line unless someone from LeBron circle told Sheridan it's a done deal

Sheridan announced it 2 days earlier. He said LeBron delivered the news to Riley in that meeting. He also said the announcement would come from lebronjames.com.

Windhorst, Broussard, Aldridge, Shelburne, Amick and others all immediately refuted that report and said that no decision was given to the Heat and that the Heat remained optimistic.

After the official letter, Sheridan said he received some leaked misinformation.

The opinion of most people is that while Sheridan turned out correct, he was a little over eager to be the one to break it and acted on less than a sure thing.

 

[gordontrue]

Not buying it. Sorry. You criticize people for making absolute statements re: when Lebron made his decision and then say: "Gilbert didn't know Lebron was coming until the letter was already online."

We know for a fact that Lebron and Gilbert had at least one secret meeting before the letter was posted. That alone says that Gilbert at least had a pretty good idea.

I fail to see the absolutism in that statement. Of course, they were meeting and talking before the official decision. Gilbert stated he didn't know LeBron's final decision until the letter. Of course he may have been lying, but several credible reporters reported the same thing. Having a "pretty good idea" and knowing the decision has been made are two very different things... that's my whole point.

If they would agree that LeBron playing the waiting game had a negative impact on the heat free agency due to other top free agents who the heat would've targeted had already signed with a team or cut it list down to 2 teams by the time LeBron made his decision. I'm not going to say it was deliberate but LeBron waiting so long to make a decision destroyed the heat plan B options for free agency. They were only able to sign 1 good player (not including players who they resigned). I think if they knew before hand they would've signed someone like Lowry in addition to deng and probably would've been able to get better role players instead of Williams & Brown. Sorry you're delusional if you think otherwise

Definitely. Of course a decision that took 2 weeks was worse for the Heat than one that took 1 day. Not once have I ever denied the timeline negatively impacting the Heat. Its the thought by some posters that this was definitely a deliberate screw-you scheme by LeBron that I don't buy.

 

[gordontrue]

He was going to drag it out until he could get on that plane for Brasil and avoid answering any questions and explaining that fake letter.

That's more plausible to me (and also a very different accusation) than he was trying to screw over Miami's FA plans.

 

[gordontrue]

Are the Cavs fans really claiming there was no collusion on Lebron/Kyrie/Gilbert's part?

Collusion between LeBron and Gilbert? Before July 1st? What?

 

[Flauge]

I just believe he knew for awhile he was leaving Miami to go to Cleveland. If you believe the letter he penned in SI, none of the reasons he gave happened in those two weeks. Like I said, he can play anywhere he wants, he has that right. I doubt his reasons were to screw Miami over. But it is the outcome of what he did. Although, a player of his caliber leaving will always screw over the team he left.

The thing that pisses me off as a Miami sports fan is when he left Cleveland it was hated. People hated him for screwing over Cleveland and turning his back on them. Google the articles written back then. But he turns his back on our fan base and he is applauded..loved. No one gave him any crap for leaving Miami in the sports media outside of Lebatard and Papi. Which is why I love them.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Collusion between LeBron and Gilbert? Before July 1st? What?

I think there is truth in what both sides are saying * Heat and Cavs fans*.

But, I think it's easier for folks on the outside looking in to see both sides because we don't have a dog in the race/are not emotionally involved.

I get it...really.

I remember when CP3 was a free agent and Sterling had really pissed him off.

I could deal with him leaving. Hell, all the Clips good players either left in Free Agency or on a stretcher.

But, what I couldn't live with was him going to the Lakers.

Ditto for Blake when all the Howard trade rumors were going around.

There was talk of Blake for Howard or Blake to Portland, Howard to the Clips, Aldridge to the Lakers because neil Oshley is the guy that drafted Blake and Aldridge had one foot out the door until Dame went HAM.

The Heat fans have held up remarkeably well under the circumstances. Maybe winning Championships will do that for you.

But, I swear..I would have stopped watching NbA ball until Paul retired if he signed with the Lakers.

Petty?..yes.

But, I'm not joking....it would have hurt to much.

 

[gordontrue]

The general public is naturally going to sympathize more with Cleveland.

Miami is the hotter, younger mistress that he left his faithful, middle-aged and somewhat homely wife for. She taught him things, excited him, took him to new heights.

Eventually, the thrill ran dry and he longed for his first love again, who welcomed him back with open arms. Now he can show her things he learned from his mistress.

The mistress will be fine, she could never hurt as much as the wife did.

 

[trojanfan12]

I fail to see the absolutism in that statement. Of course, they were meeting and talking before the official decision. Gilbert stated he didn't know LeBron's final decision until the letter. Of course he may have been lying, but several credible reporters reported the same thing. Having a "pretty good idea" and knowing the decision has been made are two very different things... that's my whole point.



Definitely. Of course a decision that took 2 weeks was worse for the Heat than one that took 1 day. Not once have I ever denied the timeline negatively impacting the Heat. Its the thought by some posters that this was definitely a deliberate screw-you scheme by LeBron that I don't buy.

1.) "Gilbert didn't know that Lebron was coming until the letter was already online" is certainly more of an absolute statement than "Gilbert claims he didn't know until the letter was online" or "It appears that Gilbert didn't know until the letter was online." That's no different than Heat fans saying that Gilbert knew before then or Lebron knew before then vs. them saying that he may have known as you suggest they should.

2.) Intentional or otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that it seriously hamstrung the Heat which is ultimately the point that Heat fans and others have made and that some Cavs fans can't seem to grasp. What's funny about that is the fact that when Lebron left the Cavs, Cavs fans were screaming, crying and burning his jersey claiming that he screwed them over. Now, Heat fans are claiming he did the same to their team (and handling it with a lot more class) and Cavs fans are calling them bitter and claiming Lebron did nothing wrong.

 

[gordontrue]

1.) "Gilbert didn't know that Lebron was coming until the letter was already online" is certainly more of an absolute statement than "Gilbert claims he didn't know until the letter was online" or "It appears that Gilbert didn't know until the letter was online." That's no different than Heat fans saying that Gilbert knew before then or Lebron knew before then vs. them saying that he may have known as you suggest they should.

2.) Intentional or otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that it seriously hamstrung the Heat which is ultimately the point that Heat fans and others have made and that some Cavs fans can't seem to grasp. What's funny about that is the fact that when Lebron left the Cavs, Cavs fans were screaming, crying and burning his jersey claiming that he screwed them over. Now, Heat fans are claiming he did the same to their team (and handling it with a lot more class) and Cavs fans are calling them bitter and claiming Lebron did nothing wrong.

1) Gotcha. Good point. I should both watch my wording and be more tolerant of the fact that stating your opinion might often sound more absolute than it truly is.

2) I have never argued this. Of course a longer timeline hurts the Heat, at least to some extent.

 

[trojanfan12]

The general public is naturally going to sympathize more with Cleveland.

Miami is the hotter, younger mistress that he left his faithful, middle-aged and somewhat homely wife for. She taught him things, excited him, took him to new heights.

Eventually, the thrill ran dry and he longed for his first love again, who welcomed him back with open arms. Now he can show her things he learned from his mistress.

The mistress will be fine, she could never hurt as much as the wife did.

Except he went back to the middle-aged somewhat homely wife and now she's crammed her fat ass into a pair of stretch pants and a crop top and is strutting around Wal-Mart like he never left.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I just believe he knew for awhile he was leaving Miami to go to Cleveland. If you believe the letter he penned in SI, none of the reasons he gave happened in those two weeks. Like I said, he can play anywhere he wants, he has that right. I doubt his reasons were to screw Miami over. But it is the outcome of what he did. Although, a player of his caliber leaving will always screw over the team he left.

The thing that pisses me off as a Miami sports fan is when he left Cleveland it was hated. People hated him for screwing over Cleveland and turning his back on them. Google the articles written back then. But he turns his back on our fan base and he is applauded..loved. No one gave him any crap for leaving Miami in the sports media outside of Lebatard and Papi. Which is why I love them.

No, you are correct.

Not in the Media.

But, I think that has more to do with Lebron's star power.

He is the NBA right now.

ESPN are a bunch of butt boys because they don't want him to close ranks on their asses.

But, he is villified by some of the fans.

I personally love Lebron and his game.

His numbers scream HoFamer, and by the time it's all said and done, possibly GOAT.

But, he will NEVER be seen, in my eyes anyway, on the level of the Bird's, Magic's, Jordan's because of his perpensity to stack the deck and bail at the first sign of trouble.

Sadly, these facts will be lost in History about a decade after his playing days are over...just like we Jordan lovers love to ignore the fact that he was a roaring, ragging ASSHOLE, selfish gunner and horrific teammate early on.

Yet, we love to torch Kobe...lol

 

[Flauge]

The general public is naturally going to sympathize more with Cleveland.

Miami is the hotter, younger mistress that he left his faithful, middle-aged and somewhat homely wife for. She taught him things, excited him, took him to new heights.

Eventually, the thrill ran dry and he longed for his first love again, who welcomed him back with open arms. Now he can show her things he learned from his mistress.

The mistress will be fine, she could never hurt as much as the wife did.

I get the analogy. It is fine. But as a sports fan, I love Miami the same way Clevelanders love Cleveland. I grew up in South Florida, it will always be special to me, despite having to North Florida to work. Miami sports fans suck. We do. Don't show up. Transient/foreign based population. But for the true faithful, LeBron leaving sucked. But we will be fine.

 

[gordontrue]

Except he went back to the middle-aged somewhat homely wife and now she's crammed her fat ass into a pair of stretch pants and a crop top and is strutting around Wal-Mart like he never left.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Except he went back to the middle-aged somewhat homely wife and now she's crammed her fat ass into a pair of stretch pants and a crop top and is strutting around Wal-Mart like he never left.

* watches TF12 drop mic, walk off stage *

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Jul 10, 2014

• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Jarrett Jack in a trade to the Brooklyn Nets.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Sergey Karasev in a trade to the Brooklyn Nets.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Tyler Zeller in a trade to the Boston Celtics.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired the Draft Rights to Edin Bavcic from the Brooklyn Nets in a trade.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired the Draft Rights to Ilkan Karaman from the Brooklyn Nets in a trade.
• Kyrie Irving signed a rookie scale extension with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

But they didn't know before the announcement that he was coming.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

That's more plausible to me (and also a very different accusation) than he was trying to screw over Miami's FA plans.

They go hand in hand.

No need to drag it out, other then he could.
It was well with his rights and the rules, no disputing that, but for what reason then since we all know his mind was made up?

 

[gordontrue]

Jul 10, 2014

• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Jarrett Jack in a trade to the Brooklyn Nets.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Sergey Karasev in a trade to the Brooklyn Nets.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers sent Tyler Zeller in a trade to the Boston Celtics.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired the Draft Rights to Edin Bavcic from the Brooklyn Nets in a trade.
• The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired the Draft Rights to Ilkan Karaman from the Brooklyn Nets in a trade.
• Kyrie Irving signed a rookie scale extension with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

But they didn't know before the announcement that he was coming.

Because no team would ever clear room for LeBron without a 100% commitment?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Because no team would ever clear room for LeBron without a 100% commitment?

James met with several teams during his 2 FA periods, and NOPE, no other team dumped any players just because they HAD a meeting.
Cavs dumped players because they HAD a commitment.

Of all owners, the dickhead who wrote the letter on the night that James left for Miami would be the last to dump nice young prospects 'just in case'.