Two Columns on Harbaugh's Lack of Confidence in Smith

[wartyOne]

Well, I get the argument that Smith is not the typical SB winning quarterback, but as MH said, teams with a certain less than stellar QB play have won -- Tampa Bay, Ravens, the Giants with Hoss, Rothelisburger in the SB against Seattle had a putrid game --- but you're really jumping the shark here by saying that he CAN'T, and also saying that SMith will fail in the playoffs -- I don't think he failed against New Orleans and he didn't have a great game against the Giants but it did come down to a couple of fumbles. And to say he isn't competent is absurd --- he's not elite but he's competent. You oversold on that one man.

I disagree. New Orleans was a great game. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while." The NFCC and the Giants this year make me VERY concerned about Smith's ability to win big games consistently. He hasn't his whole career. So I should HOPE he can?

Come on. That's not realistic.

I'm glad we're winning in the regular season. I want SB's. I saw Montana's whole career. This isn't living up to par.

When Smith can consistently beat good teams, WITH HIS ARM, I'll say he's competent. We're beating teams with defense and ST's. Smith is an also ran in this conversation.

 

[yossarian]

I disagree. New Orleans was a great game. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while." The NFCC and the Giants this year make me VERY concerned about Smith's ability to win big games consistently. He hasn't his whole career. So I should HOPE he can?

Come on. That's not realistic.

I'm glad we're winning in the regular season. I want SB's. I saw Montana's whole career. This isn't living up to par.

When Smith can consistently beat good teams, WITH HIS ARM, I'll say he's competent. We're beating teams with defense and ST's. Smith is an also ran in this conversation.

I saw Montana's whole career as well -- that's a pretty big par to live up to -- Montana was the best, plain and simple -- and had the greatest coach. I also saw the dark years in the mid to late 70s, so I'm grateful for this era. So let me ask you, last year -- Smith threw the 4th and goal td to beat Detroit, when Gore was injured in the Giants game he threw them to a victory, in Philly he led part of the comeback in the 3rd quarter by passing, -- I think those games show that he's at least a competent qb, do you disagree?

 

[wartyOne]

Yeah, we'll disagree. Neither are facts, IMO (I mispoke). We'll see how it turns out this year as I do think it's this year or bust for Smith. If Smith does win this year, I think it will then be fact, but right now, that is my opinion and I should have stated it as such.

He didn't cave to a team in the Saints where people said he would, then he performed poorly against the Giants. Had we won despite that, we'd have had a chance against the Patriots. The only reason why I'm arguing this is because we're not talking about whether Smith is great (which I would of course say he's not), just whether he can get us a win, and I think he can. Won't say he will, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether he can.

Word.

 

[MHSL82]

I saw Montana's whole career as well -- that's a pretty big par to live up to -- Montana was the best, plain and simple -- and had the greatest coach. I also saw the dark years in the mid to late 70s, so I'm grateful for this era. So let me ask you, last year -- Smith threw the 4th and goal td to beat Detroit, when Gore was injured in the Giants game he threw them to a victory, in Philly he led part of the comeback in the 3rd quarter by passing, -- I think those games show that he's at least a competent qb, do you disagree?

There's no sense in trying to convince anyone. He doesn't think he's competent. You and I think he is. None of us will change our mind until he makes us, for good or bad. I don't think either of us are saying he's great or the franchise and if we win it won't be because of him unless he changes his play, which none of us are predicting. Let's move on?

 

[yossarian]

There's no sense in trying to convince anyone. He doesn't think he's competent. You and I think he is. None of us will change our mind until he makes us, for good or bad. I don't think either of us are saying he's great or the franchise and if we win it won't be because of him unless he changes his play, which none of us are predicting. Let's move on?

I agree with everything you said, moving on. Thanks for the perspectives everyone, I'm glad I posted the articles at the beginning.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Who? What do we do the rest of this year? We're 5-2 and the season sucks, we'll never reach the Super Bowl with Smith, we were lucky to squeak out a win over the Bills and the Jets with him as our qb, we need solutions!

Yes, we're 5-2. With the best defense in the league, the best running game in the league, and one of the best coaching staffs around. Don't be surprised if you see a change at QB soon - but don't cry yourself to sleep when that happens.

 

[Flyingiguana]

No, it isn't. You're blabbering at the mouth now. What role did velocity play in Antrell Rolle's first INT in the Giants game? What about Rolle's 2nd INT when Alex actually OVERTHREW the WR? What about the INT against Seattle? How was that a lack of velocity? The only one that you Might have a case that it was a velocity problem was the first INT when he threw it to Walker, but Alex has already come out and said he threw it with the intention of it being a jump ball.

none of his throws had the same velocity. it was never good before the injury but his throws looked horrible. against seattle he didn't even seem to bother trying.

like i said, the coaching staff shouldn't have had him out there. if he isn't throwing the ball better in practice, fucking sit him.

 

[ViperVisor]

Ok. Why? He has the best OL in the NFL, he has the best running game in the NFL, he has the best TE in the NFL, and he has decent WRs. And the NIners have had the best defense in the NFL, so Alex hasn't had to do much to win games; usually 20 points will do it. That's why he's had decent numbers.

I was obviously talking about 2006-2010.

 

[ViperVisor]

The fact that you view Sanchez as an upgrade is very telling.

What is telling is your disregard of substance.

Around draft time I viewed, past tense Mr. grammar police, as a worthy fork in the road to take.

 

[Bemular]

none of his throws had the same velocity. it was never good before the injury but his throws looked horrible. against seattle he didn't even seem to bother trying.

like i said, the coaching staff shouldn't have had him out there. if he isn't throwing the ball better in practice, fucking sit him.

There was obviously no reason to sit Alex - He was fine, his finger was fine, his velocity was fine he was obviously throwing the ball just fine in practice, hell he didn't even miss a practice so why would the coaching staff sit him?

Look, Fi, Alex is a swell guy and even a great QB if you want the type of QB who can, at his best, keep games close enough for the O'line/RB's, defense and special teams to win. But I’m done with having THAT type of QB.

Here is my "I want a QB who can" wish list:

I want a QB who can:

Put the entire team on his back.
Pick-up the defense when they get burned.
Pick-up ST's when they miss a FG, muff a punt or allow a TD.
Pick-up the O'Line when they let one get through.
Pick-up the running game when the holes just aren't there.
Make DC's pay for blitzing or stacking the box.
See open and covered receivers and know the difference.
Throw a receiver open when he is in tight coverage.
Operate in less than a perfect pocket.
See running lanes when he’s scrambling.
See open receivers when he’s scrambling.
Make post-snap reads better then he makes pre-snap reads.
Incorporate sight adjustments with his receivers.

Hell, I would settle for just having a QB that can pick HIMSELF up when he makes a stupid mistake. Alex Smith simply cannot, with ANY measure of consistency, do ANY of those things I listed and you are still suggesting that velocity is the problem here?

Dude, the velocity argument you keep clinging to has run its course; it has zero supporting evidence, no basis in truth and has now gone beyond stupid, so, please, just let the velocity BS die already will ya. We have much bigger issues to worry about with Alex.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

But Bem, according to your list there are about 5 QBs in the league you would want, and all but about 2 of them - say Rodgers and Brees - have off-days or even series of bad games.

If you guys put the same laser focus on other QBs that you do AS, you would find all kinds of the same faults. He's clearly worse at some things than the average QB, but he's better at others - and those things are continually ignored by the unplacatable critics. He had good games to start the season vs. some bad defenses, and has recently struggled against good defenses. Almost every QB in the league will follow a similar pattern.

Now I will try to ignore this thread for a couple hundred more posts.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

For the record, every team in the league faces good AND bad opponents. Every team in the league has good weeks and bad weeks. And Smith is 8th in rating, throwing for a higher YPA on a higher completion % than most other QBs in the league. Maybe he's protected, maybe they hide him, but no matter how you rationalize it you cannot justify saying he's inadequte or he sucks. Its just contrary to all evidence.

 

[Bemular]

But Bem, according to your list there are about 5 QBs in the league you would want, and all but about 2 of them - say Rodgers and Brees - have off-days or even series of bad games.

If you guys put the laser focus on other QBs that you do AS, you would find all kinds of the same faults. He's clearly worse at some things than the average QB, but he's better at others - and those things are continually ignored by the unplacatable critics. He had good games to start the season vs. some bad defenses, and has recently struggled against good defenses. Almost every QB in the league will follow a similar pattern.

Now I will try to ignore this thread for a couple hundred more posts.

Hey Space, you're interpreting the list in a way other than I intended. I'm not looking for a fault or mistake free QB, those don't exist. QB's who possess the capabilities mentioned on my list don't always execute successfully those capabilities - but at least they have them. Alex simply doesn't have many of them or cannot execute many of them with any measure of consistency.

You mentioned in your post: "He's clearly worse at some things than the average QB, but he's better at others"

I agree Alex might do some things better than other average QB's but that still leaves him being somewhere between a mediocre and an average QB.

I want a QB that is measurably above that level - one as good as the rest of my team.

 

[Bemular]

2012 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

For the record, every team in the league faces good AND bad opponents. Every team in the league has good weeks and bad weeks. And Smith is 8th in rating, throwing for a higher YPA on a higher completion % than most other QBs in the league. Maybe he's protected, maybe they hide him, but no matter how you rationalize it you cannot justify saying he's inadequte or he sucks. Its just contrary to all evidence.

He's also 24th in pass attempts, 28th in Yds/Gm., 13th in TD's, and has been sacked 5th most in the league. So, yeah I think not only is he being hidden - he is being well hidden - just like last year.

I wouldn't say Alex is an overall inadequate QB. I'm sure there are a few teams where he would be an adequate QB. But he is absolutely an inadequate QB for the talent we have on our team - especially our WR's.

 

[wartyOne]

I saw Montana's whole career as well -- that's a pretty big par to live up to -- Montana was the best, plain and simple -- and had the greatest coach. I also saw the dark years in the mid to late 70s, so I'm grateful for this era. So let me ask you, last year -- Smith threw the 4th and goal td to beat Detroit, when Gore was injured in the Giants game he threw them to a victory, in Philly he led part of the comeback in the 3rd quarter by passing, -- I think those games show that he's at least a competent qb, do you disagree?

I don't think he's incompetent. I firmly believe we're not a legitimate SB contender with Smith as our QB.

He's a disappointment as the top overall pick in a draft that also had Aaron Rodgers (I know, hindsight 20/20) because in his entire career his performance was responsible for maybe three wins. And this is as good as it gets with him.

 

[Flyingiguana]

There was obviously no reason to sit Alex - He was fine, his finger was fine, his velocity was fine he was obviously throwing the ball just fine in practice, hell he didn't even miss a practice so why would the coaching staff sit him?

Look, Fi, Alex is a swell guy and even a great QB if you want the type of QB who can, at his best, keep games close enough for the O'line/RB's, defense and special teams to win. But I’m done with having THAT type of QB.

Here is my "I want a QB who can" wish list:

I want a QB who can:

Put the entire team on his back.
Pick-up the defense when they get burned.
Pick-up ST's when they miss a FG, muff a punt or allow a TD.
Pick-up the O'Line when they let one get through.
Pick-up the running game when the holes just aren't there.
Make DC's pay for blitzing or stacking the box.
See open and covered receivers and know the difference.
Throw a receiver open when he is in tight coverage.
Operate in less than a perfect pocket.
See running lanes when he’s scrambling.
See open receivers when he’s scrambling.
Make post-snap reads better then he makes pre-snap reads.
Incorporate sight adjustments with his receivers.

Hell, I would settle for just having a QB that can pick HIMSELF up when he makes a stupid mistake. Alex Smith simply cannot, with ANY measure of consistency, do ANY of those things I listed and you are still suggesting that velocity is the problem here?

Dude, the velocity argument you keep clinging to has run its course; it has zero supporting evidence, no basis in truth and has now gone beyond stupid, so, please, just let the velocity BS die already will ya. We have much bigger issues to worry about with Alex.

the supporting argument is what i saw. he should have been replaced at halftime against the giants. if smith isn't able to make the throws he needs to make (double the throws under 10 yards) then why is he out there? kap has been making strides this year. i don't think he's ready to take over full-time, but i'm sure he can come in and play well.

seattle wouldnt be able to prepare as much on a short week which would be a big plus. if kap proves over those two games that he's ready, guess who's our starter?

if not, smith has time off to get that finger 100%. had smith been throwing the ball beyond 10 yards at his more normal rate this season, i highly doubt we woulda been seattle. arizona will adjust and if his hand isn't 100% and he can only make those short passes, then we got problems.

 

[Bemular]

the supporting argument is what i saw.

Like I said there is no supporting argument.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Using QB rating to support your argument, in any direction, is ridiculous. QB rating was flawed when people were using it against Alex, and it' still flawed now when people are using it FOR him.

 

[Dodub]

We don't have another QB on the roster I really want to see as a full time starter right now. We have Tim Tebow and a no body as our back ups. No thank you. I say wait for the draft if we want to get a QB, but at this point I don't care if we upgrade it or not. Our philosophy is to run the football well, play great defense and play the field position game and thus far it has worked very well. I'm completely happy with that. We are similar to the Ravens when they won the superbowl.

 

[NinerSickness]

Hold on. I've NEVER been a fan of Kaep, and I probably never will be. However, let's not call hm a "Tebow." Tebow is the worst QB in the NFL. And that includes Jimmy Clausen.