Top 10 poll: #10 player ever

[chappee11]

Verlander was basically done as he left Detroit. But you can argue he has put together a borderline HOF career POST-Detroit.

And Clemens didn’t break any rules in ’96 or after.

That’s a fair comp, except Verlander wasn’t pals with Brian McNamee, was he? Verlander got his boost from Kate Upton instead.

 

[calsnowskier]

Interesting list. Since Walter Johnson has already secured the #1 slot for pitchers, Pedro has a legitimate claim to the #2 slot. And he doesn’t have the stink of PEDs on him, either.

How many more tests did Clemens fail than Pedro? Clemens broke no rules. He simply played the game that was out in front of him.

 

[calsnowskier]

Clemens has a 4 year stint from 1993-1996 where he’s tailing off as he enters his 30’s. He has no all star appearances and no top 20 Cy Young finishes during this time. There are still some really solid seasons in there, but he was clearly aging.

Then come his 1997 and 1998 seasons with the PEDs, which are comically absurd and he’s superhuman and basically the best pitcher who ever lived. At age 34 and 35. I love his durability, but I hope there are others that will factor this into his calculation going forward in this exercise.

And he was facing all the cyber men and was embarrassing them. And competing against other pitchers using PEDs and still the amazing + stats.

 

[LHG]

Updating to include the most egregious overrated player on this list so far (until Ohtani makes the list):
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1948-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)

1876-1904 - 0
1905-1913 - 1
1914-1922 - 2
1923-1928 - 3
1929-1935 - 2
1936-1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940-1947 - 1
1948-1950 - 2
1951-1953 - 3
1954-1960 - 4
1961-1968 - 3
1969-1973 - 2
1974-1976 - 1
1977-1985 - 0
1986-2007 - 1
2007-2024 - 0

Updating to include #9:
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1948-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)

1876-1904 - 0
1905-1906 - 1
1907-1913 - 2
1914-1922 - 3
1923-1927 - 4
1928 - 3
1929-1935 - 2
1936-1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940-1947 - 1
1948-1950 - 2
1951-1953 - 3
1954-1960 - 4
1961-1968 - 3
1969-1973 - 2
1974-1976 - 1
1977-1985 - 0
1986-2007 - 1
2007-2024 - 0

 

[broncosmitty]

Verlander was basically done as he left Detroit. But you can argue he has put together a borderline HOF career POST-Detroit.

And Clemens didn’t break any rules in ’96 or after.

JV was 2nd in CYA the year before the trade (also got MVP votes) and 5th the year of the trade.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Did someone say JV is a borderline HOF? Lol. First ballot easily.

 

[jon2tanman]

Sorry but I would take Randy and Maddux over Clemens and Pedro.

 

[steveringo]

Arbitrarily? No matter who takes this spot?

If Hornsby takes this spot, than you think ARod is better than Musial? If Musial wins this spot, than you think ARod is better than Hornsby?

But right now, you think both Hornsby and Musial are better than ARod?

No, no... just a joke warning that he's coming up.... once Wagner clears the board, he should be mentioned....

 

[Clayton]

Since we're talking about pitchers with 13 or 14 dominant years I do think it's worth mentioning that Pujols had just about a dominant 12 year stretch as anyone left on the board.

 

[LHG]

Since we're talking about pitchers with 13 or 14 dominant years I do think it's worth mentioning that Pujols had just about a dominant 12 year stretch as anyone left on the board.

There are still 21 players yet to be voted in who have a higher WAR7 than Pujols but it would be interesting to see his WAR12 compared to all others.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Since we're talking about pitchers with 13 or 14 dominant years I do think it's worth mentioning that Pujols had just about a dominant 12 year stretch as anyone left on the board.

you are the one stumping Musial... I am one that thinks i have pujols in my top 15, where musial does not reside...

i really dont understand the love for musial.... sure, he is an all time great... but when we are talking top 10, or top 20... that is a different level...

 

[Clayton]

you are the one stumping Musial... I am one that thinks i have pujols in my top 15, where musial does not reside...

i really dont understand the love for musial.... sure, he is an all time great... but when we are talking top 10, or top 20... that is a different level...

You're acting like its not normal to have Musial in the top 15

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You're acting like its not normal to have Musial in the top 15

no, not acting like its not normal... i am acting like it shouldnt be normal...

more so, i dont understand why cardinal fans love Musial more than Pujols...

 

[Clayton]

There are still 21 players yet to be voted in who have a higher WAR7 than Pujols but it would be interesting to see his WAR12 compared to all others.

Since we have the precedent of Aaron so high, I do think accumulation matters so Pujols probably checks more boxes than Pedro and DiMaggio but he is behind Wagner, Speaker, and Musial. Hornsby also has a way better prime according to WAR.

Probably needs to be a real look at where ARod and Clemens are before we get to Pujols. Cy Young in general is either somewhere around the 10th best pitcher or by far the best.

 

[Clayton]

more so, i dont understand why cardinal fans love Musial more than Pujols...

I dont understand why you think its just Cardinal fans.

That said, he played for the Cardinals for a very long time so I think its kinda obvious. If Pujols never goes to the Angels it might be a different story.

 

[LHG]

Stan Musial - 22 seasons, 128.5 WAR, 159 OPS+, 64.5 WAR7
Albert Pujols - 22 seasons, 101.4 WAR, 145 OPS+, 61.7 WAR7