tOfficial "Tom Brady & the New England Patriots" Superthread

[rmilia1]

See, now you're starting to squirm.

Is Brady winning games or not? Yes or no? You can't have it both ways.

He's the 27th ranked QB in the league but you keep up with this esoteric bullshit about how valuable he is. He's a terrible passer (just about the worst and the numbers prove it) and he's mismanaging games when it counts.

What exactly makes Brady so great this season in your opinion?

HD you make me laugh. All Ive done this entire thread is give reasons why Brady has done a good job ( not performed well, not best stats). To sum up so you can go back to arguing. The man is the QB of a 6-2 team and has led that team to 3 late, clutch wins and done it largely by himself on the offensive side of the ball. He has no really top level talent at skill positions yet his team is in first place and he has performed when he needed to. Thats inarguable. But go ahead and try anyway

 

[HammerDown]

Yeah except that they usually caught the ball when Peyton hit them in the face with it. Have you watched any Pats games ? His receivers, for the most part, are absolute garbage. Brady is fine. He can't run good routes and catch the ball too. I'm not a Pats fan, nor particularly a Brady fan either... just being realistic.

You haven't watched a single game if you're blaming the receivers. Period.

 

[HammerDown]

HD you make me laugh. All Ive done this entire thread is give reasons why Brady has done a good job ( not performed well, not best stats). To sum up so you can go back to arguing. The man is the QB of a 6-2 team and has led that team to 3 late, clutch wins and done it largely by himself on the offensive side of the ball. He has no really top level talent at skill positions yet his team is in first place and he has performed when he needed to. Thats inarguable. But go ahead and try anyway

So you're not going to answer my questions. Fair enough.

 

[cdumler7]

HD you make me laugh. All Ive done this entire thread is give reasons why Brady has done a good job ( not performed well, not best stats). To sum up so you can go back to arguing. The man is the QB of a 6-2 team and has led that team to 3 late, clutch wins and done it largely by himself on the offensive side of the ball. He has no really top level talent at skill positions yet his team is in first place and he has performed when he needed to. Thats inarguable. But go ahead and try anyway

Well couple of things...The first being he might be playing in the worst division in the AFC right now which helps in the whole being in first place considering 4 of their games have been against AFC East opponents up to this point. Two of the other wins that they have are against teams that are in last place in their division. He has a top 10 rushing offense right now in yards and a top 10 defense.

If you are going to argue that because his team is winning that makes him great then right now you would have to say that Alex Smith is the best quarterback in all of football. He doesn't have a whole lot of weapons beyond Charles at this point and has a worse OL than that of New England yet he has a better record. So according to your logic Alex Smith is the greatest quarterback in the NFL. You sure you want to stick with that?

 

[HammerDown]

If you think Ryan is better than Brady you should just stop watching the game... or at least stop posting about it.

The numbers don't lie. Put Ryan on the Patriots and they're 8-0. Put Brady on the Falcons and the only game they win is the Tampa game.

And thank you, but I don't need you to validate my opinion in order to keep posting.

 

[HammerDown]

So when they play the Patriots every member of the Bills suddenly becomes like a prime Lawrence Taylor. No wonder Brady is having a tough time. If only other teams had divisional rivalries as strong as Pats/Bills or Pats/Phins they would know Bradys pain.

Typical logic of those trying to convince us that a 27th rated passer is one of the best in the game. A bunch of emotional bullshit. You'd think we stole these guys' teddy bear or something...

 

[powerchord86]

GOAT!

 

[rmilia1]

So you're not going to answer my questions. Fair enough.

Answered it like 20 times alreay You just dont agree and thats cool.

 

[HammerDown]

Well couple of things...The first being he might be playing in the worst division in the AFC right now which helps in the whole being in first place considering 4 of their games have been against AFC East opponents up to this point. Two of the other wins that they have are against teams that are in last place in their division. He has a top 10 rushing offense right now in yards and a top 10 defense.

If you are going to argue that because his team is winning that makes him great then right now you would have to say that Alex Smith is the best quarterback in all of football. He doesn't have a whole lot of weapons beyond Charles at this point and has a worse OL than that of New England yet he has a better record. So according to your logic Alex Smith is the greatest quarterback in the NFL. You sure you want to stick with that?

Basically what I've been shouting this whole thread. The same guys desperate to convince us that this 27th best QB is elite are the same ones who want it both ways. On one hand the numbers mean nothing, but then they try to use those same numbers to convince us of Brady's greatness when in fact they do nothing of the sort. rmilia likes the term pedestrian, which his fans should be content to settle for. Calling a 27th ranked QB "pedestrian" should be a compliment right?

By their own logic, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith and Geno Smith are better QBs than Brady. And they're right! The numbers prove it!

"But Brady's team is 6-2."

So he's responsible for those wins?

"Absolutely. This is a very bad team and they're winning because of Brady. Have you seen the receivers? It's all their fault!"

What about the losses?

"Has nothing to do with Brady."

So the QB is why a team wins or loses. That means Andy Dalton, Geno Smith and Alex Smith are better QBs than Brady.

"Uhhhhhhh. Wait a second. What?!"

Once again, all thread long I've been asking for evidence. Show me why the numbers lie. Show me the greatness of Brady. It's certainly not in passing since he's the worst in the entire league this season. Cool under pressure? Not against the almighty Jets and not when he's having meltdowns on the sideline!

Repeat: the Patriots are winning in spite of their QB. If you've watched the games, that's clearly evident. If you want to throw a tantrum and accuse me of "spewing hate" like BF4L and Bulldog, go right ahead and prove me right. I'm simply asking someone to disprove the facts here and tell me why I should believe that Tom Brady is elite. And please, don't come up with the same old "his team is winning" bullshit unless you're prepared to lay the responsibility for the ugly losses at his feet too.

The Patriots are winning for one reason: Bill Belichick. And you know it. He's preparing his team and maximizing production from his talent. Fortunately for him he's done it largely against piss-poor opposition and 25% of the time his team's been exposed for what it is; a team with a good run game and stellar defense in a pathetic division.

 

[BF4L]

Basically what I've been shouting this whole thread. The same guys desperate to convince us that this 27th best QB is elite are the same ones who want it both ways. On one hand the numbers mean nothing, but then they try to use those same numbers to convince us of Brady's greatness when in fact they do nothing of the sort. rmilia likes the term pedestrian, which his fans should be content to settle for. Calling a 27th ranked QB "pedestrian" should be a compliment right?

By their own logic, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith and Geno Smith are better QBs than Brady. And they're right! The numbers prove it!

"But Brady's team is 6-2."

So he's responsible for those wins?

"Absolutely. This is a very bad team and they're winning because of Brady. Have you seen the receivers? It's all their fault!"

What about the losses?

"Has nothing to do with Brady."

So the QB is why a team wins or loses. That means Andy Dalton, Geno Smith and Alex Smith are better QBs than Brady.

"Uhhhhhhh. Wait a second. What?!"

Once again, all thread long I've been asking for evidence. Show me why the numbers lie. Show me the greatness of Brady. It's certainly not in passing since he's the worst in the entire league this season. Cool under pressure? Not against the almighty Jets and not when he's having meltdowns on the sideline!

Repeat: the Patriots are winning in spite of their QB. If you've watched the games, that's clearly evident. If you want to throw a tantrum and accuse me of "spewing hate" like BF4L and Bulldog, go right ahead and prove me right. I'm simply asking someone to disprove the facts here and tell me why I should believe that Tom Brady is elite. And please, don't come up with the same old "his team is winning" bullshit unless you're prepared to lay the responsibility for the ugly losses at his feet too.

The Patriots are winning for one reason: Bill Belichick. And you know it. He's preparing his team and maximizing production from his talent. Fortunately for him he's done it largely against piss-poor opposition and 25% of the time his team's been exposed for what it is; a team with a good run game and stellar defense in a pathetic division.

I stopped some time ago debating Tom Brady with you. I have also said numerous times he has not played well at times this year.

 

[HammerDown]

I stopped some time ago debating Tom Brady with you. I have also said numerous times he has not played well at times this year.

You never once debated, BF4L. Your MO is to respond with hit-n-run one-liners.

 

[powerchord86]

So many people try to take Brady down like it's a second job.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

Tom may not be playing as well as he usually does, but the man is winning. I for one don't care about stats and stats don't tell the whole story. i look at everything and wins are a major part of what i look at, because if your team is winning everyone is doing their job and that's what is important. This talk about having good stats means you're doing your job is BS because you job isn't to put up good stats it's to win. I said it about Flacco last year and i'll say it about Brady or any other QB.

 

[BF4L]

You never once debated, BF4L. Your MO is to respond with hit-n-run one-liners.

Why would I debate it really? You dont like him or me for the matter so what am I going to say that would change your mind?

Brady has not been the Brady of the past this year. I believe I have said that a number of times but he is also not just all out terrible. The Jets game I believe it was he missed a ton of passes that should have been completed. I guess I could go back and find the posts I made saying that but then again what would that prove?

 

[HammerDown]

Tom may not be playing as well as he usually does, but the man is winning. I for one don't care about stats and stats don't tell the whole story. i look at everything and wins are a major part of what i look at, because if your team is winning everyone is doing their job and that's what is important. This talk about having good stats means you're doing your job is BS because you job isn't to put up good stats it's to win. I said it about Flacco last year and i'll say it about Brady or any other QB.

Actually, the team is winning. Tom Brady isn't courageously leading this team to victory and if you'd been watching the games you'd know that. The numbers prove it.

Next.

 

[cdumler7]

Tom may not be playing as well as he usually does, but the man is winning. I for one don't care about stats and stats don't tell the whole story. i look at everything and wins are a major part of what i look at, because if your team is winning everyone is doing their job and that's what is important. This talk about having good stats means you're doing your job is BS because you job isn't to put up good stats it's to win. I said it about Flacco last year and i'll say it about Brady or any other QB.

Winning is important but there are teams who win because their quarterback has a big impact on that happening then there are those who win even though the quarterback is doing very little. At this point in the season Brady has had some good moments and some just down right horrible ones. There are games like the one against New Orleans that he was definitely a part of why they won and then there are games like against Cincinnati that I don't think anybody would say Brady helped out in that game and was in reality a big part of why they lost that game. Any time a defense holds a team to 13 points and you still lose a big chunk of that has to fall on the quarterback for not helping put up even just mediocre points.

If we are going to argue wins are the only thing to judge a quarterback by or Superbowl titles then people are saying that Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino. Now come on that is just ridiculous.

Brady is a great quarterback and is a first ballot HOF quarterback. He will most likely go down as one of the top 10 maybe even 5 quarterbacks to ever play the game. Now having said that it doesn't mean he is invincible and won't struggle at times like he has here for the first half of the season. There are times a player just isn't playing at his best and it is ok to say they are not playing their best but still say they are a great player. The fact that the Patriots are winning despite Brady not playing that great should show the overall quality of the team has improved from years past where so much depended on him playing great. They are looking more like the Superbowl years where they had great defense, strong running game, and great coaching. Brady was good for them then but he wasn't depended upon to lead them to victory every week.

 

[mcro_rave_2001]

Actually, the team is winning. Tom Brady isn't courageously leading this team to victory and if you'd been watching the games you'd know that. The numbers prove it.

Next.

Brady is part of the team so he is winning, I've never played on a team and said well the team won or lost and i didn't win or lose, maybe you have but i would never disrespect my teammates like that. Brady is part of why they are wining, and the numbers don't prove that, his record proves that.

 

[Nipsey]

Actually, the team is winning. Tom Brady isn't courageously leading this team to victory and if you'd been watching the games you'd know that. The numbers prove it.

Next.

In football, "the numbers" prove jack-all. Any good football fan knows this.

 

[Wazmankg]

The numbers don't lie. Put Ryan on the Patriots and they're 8-0. Put Brady on the Falcons and the only game they win is the Tampa game.

Apples & oranges. Having targets like Jones & Gonzo is a bit different from that clown show running routes in New England.

And thank you, but I don't need you to validate my opinion in order to keep posting.

It was just a suggestion.

 

[HammerDown]

In football, "the numbers" prove jack-all. Any good football fan knows this.

Gotcha.

The numbers are meaningless. So we should stop basing who goes to the playoffs on who wins the most games. Because, you know, the numbers "prove jack-all."

Just out of curiosity, is this what you say when Brady's numbers are good instead of abysmal?