tOfficial "Derek Jeter Retirement Circus" Thread

[StanMarsh51]

but we're talking about who "we" would take/rank as opposed to Jeter. I'll take Ernie Banks everyday of the week including Sunday and I don't care if he's warming up pitchers in the bullpen. Jeter should have player 1st base most of his career IMHO.

Well I wouldn't, and that's largely because of the last half of his career where he wasn't all that great...first half of their careers Banks was easily better, but Banks fell off quickly which hurts his overall career value. A lot of people seem to forget that he wasn't really good for the 2nd half of his career.

From 1962-1971, Banks hit .258 with a .306 OBP and 106 OPS+, and that was at 1B. Jeter by comparison the last 10 years of his career is hitting .306 with a .370 OBP and 110 OPS+....a 110 OPS+ as a shortstop is a country mile better than a 106 OPS+ as a 1B.

 

[Indrid Cold]

10 is a far cry from the 110+ that would be needed to place Jeter out of the top 200.

Todd Helton? You mean the guy whose numbers are severely inflated from Coors (baseballreference WAR is ballpark adjusted, so that hurts him), played the least demanding position on the diamond (that detracts from value), and had a 133 career OPS+, which for 1B isn't all that great?

Chase Utley's career hasn't been long enough to surpass Jeter in WAR, although he should pass him with a few more quality seasons.

As for Banks, playing 1B for half his career doesn't help him, nor does being a .274 hitter with a .330 OBP. He had power but for much of his career there wasn't much else. His career OPS+ is 122, which isn't far from Jeter's 115 (and that's with Jeter's entire career at SS).



WAR's not perfect by any means, but I'd trust it more than say someone who places a huge premium on things like grand slams, HR and RBI, and intentional walks (such as the NYPost commenter does).

Despite the Wrigley boost to his raw hitting numbers, there isn't too much to dislike about the Banks of the '50s...fine averages and power, and he was an at least decent SS. With his knees going totally to pot by the '60s, he was a fine fielding 1Bman with middling hitting ability for the position.
He was kind of like Kiner in that injuries ravaged the 2nd half of his career, except that Ralph didn't even get to have the second half of his career (back). Kiner was also a pretty crappy OFer even when his back wasn't crooked.

 

[navamind]

further take a look at the players ranked below Jeter on this WAR stat thing you posted. The players BELOW Jeter include : Tony Gwynn ,Alan Trammel , Barry Larkin ,Edgar Martinez(a jeter equal with the glove),Eddie Murray , ERNIE FREAKIN BANKS ! , Craig Biggio ,Willie McCovey , Todd Helton , Chase Utley and on and on and on. It simply doesn't work.

No, it shows you just don't understand WAR and fail to take playing time into account. It's a cumulative stat. Utley has 10.7 less career WAR than Jeter, but Jeter has almost twice as many career plate appearances.

 

[HammerDown]

Jeter has been filling his pockets all season and he made a point of doing it. If he had HALF the class we're told he has he would have announced his retirement AFTER this season and never subjected himself to this.

Been saying it all damn year.

"He's a consummate, selfless pro who'd make any sacrifice for his team."

They're still saying stupid shit like that about him after he chose to announce his retirement in February.

 

[Cyder]

"Yet in what is almost certainly his final week as a major leaguer, Derek Jeter still reigns as baseball’s perfect man because he’s so darn smooth at walking the tightrope. At making people feel good about giving him their money or their time in return for a handshake, a photo or simply sharing a large room with him with hundreds of other people."

"On Monday, Jeter pushed it some more, appearing at a midtown Manhattan theater where fans paid a range of four-figure prices to pose for a photo (the higher end) or just witness a mildly entertaining, half-hour conversation between the Yankees’ retiring shortstop and notorious memorabilia schlockmeister Brandon Steiner (the lower end). “The Captain’s Farewell,” they called it. Again, he emerged unscathed. Then he headed to the Bronx and contributed a two-run double, a walk and an RBI groundout to the Yankees’ 5-0 blanking of the Orioles."

Jeter has been filling his pockets all season and he made a point of doing it. If he had HALF the class we're told he has he would have announced his retirement AFTER this season and never subjected himself to this. Save the BS about his "foundation" getting donations from teams. What he did yesterday was not the 1st nor the last. The guy has made hundreds of millions in this game and he has the balls to put his name on this puke fest yesterday - all the money went to Jeter (his pocket) and the creeps at Steiner. Entry fee for the full Derek Jeter stroke job photo op for 1 fan was $3000.

Hypocritical Jeter always ? somehow ? comes out on top | New York Post

If people are lining up to pay it I don't see the issue. There's obviously a demand.

 

[Loneranger]

If people are lining up to pay it I don't see the issue. There's obviously a demand.

it's about class , decency and not being a pig and taking advantage of a game that has treated him pretty goddman good. If he had an oz.of any of that he would do something like that for no charge and thank the fans who filled his pockets all these yrs. Events like this cannot be defended or explained by anyone under any circumstances. Is he gonna make enough money doing this to impact his life at all? The answer is no. So you ask yourself what is the best thing that can come from me doing this? I'll look like a greedy fuckin pig at the least and if that's the best that can result then the choice is easy. This is the kinda shit for Arod and Barry Bonds , who have done it multiple times with the pimps at Steiner. Wanna be grouped in with those pigs? Not me

 

[Loneranger]

No, it shows you just don't understand WAR and fail to take playing time into account. It's a cumulative stat. Utley has 10.7 less career WAR than Jeter, but Jeter has almost twice as many career plate appearances.

wrong. This is about accepting WAR as the end all and that simply doesn't apply. Its nothing more than another stat that will soon be replaced with something else. I'll stick with listening to people around the game who know the game and can remember players like Musial , Mantle etc. WAR is for all the stat freaks and that's fine , it's not for me. Like all stats we can punch holes in it all day long. I respect that some believe it measures everything and is the only way to rank players. To me it's not. Put Jeter in Wrigley in the 50's and 60's and send Banks to NY during the Jeter yrs. I'll take my chances with Banks 24/7

 

[Loneranger]

Been saying it all damn year.

"He's a consummate, selfless pro who'd make any sacrifice for his team."

They're still saying stupid shit like that about him after he chose to announce his retirement in February.

he's disappointed a helluva a lot more people than he's pleased by his actions this yr. In time he will regret it

 

[steveringo]

Jeter to play in 2015

He says he doesn't like how his season went and doesn't want to finish his career like this.

 

[HammerDown]

No. No. No.

You're lying.

Tell me you're lying.

You're lying, right?

 

[hokiehi21]

lol of course he's lying, otherwise he'd put a link

 

[HammerDown]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__UJ9VZB508]Derek Jeter Isn't The Greatest Player Ever - YouTube[/ame]

 

[gandydancer]

In a nutshell...

 

[StanMarsh51]

I'll stick with listening to people around the game who know the game and can remember players like Musial , Mantle etc.

Who knows the game and is claiming that Jeter's not one of the top 200 players of all time? Some commenter on a NYPost article?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Despite the Wrigley boost to his raw hitting numbers, there isn't too much to dislike about the Banks of the '50s...fine averages and power, and he was an at least decent SS. With his knees going totally to pot by the '60s, he was a fine fielding 1Bman with middling hitting ability for the position.
He was kind of like Kiner in that injuries ravaged the 2nd half of his career, except that Ralph didn't even get to have the second half of his career (back). Kiner was also a pretty crappy OFer even when his back wasn't crooked.

Agreed...with Banks, I think it becomes a peak/prime value vs longevity/overall career value issue. He had an incredible prime from '55 to '60 (easily MVP caliber in 5 of those 6 seasons), but other than those 6 years, there's nothing really that jumps out at you, especially considering he was a 1B for much of that time (and his numbers those years as a 1B were pretty average by 1B standards).

In some ways it reminds me of Koufax...he's remembered for the epic couple year run moreso than the entire body of work.

 

[steveringo]

He says he was hoping he would get better gifts.

 

[{+}Mother-Marge{+}]

he's ....ALL-DONE.

 

[TxHeat]

He says he doesn't like how his season went and doesn't want to finish his career like this.

that just means he should have gone away last year.

 

[Sportsguy9695]

its comming from a boston fan. of course hes lying

 

[Indrid Cold]

He says he doesn't like how his season went and doesn't want to finish his career like this.

He should go play with his buddy Robbie Cano in Seattle to have a better chance of making the playoffs next season!